Poll - allow high-rise buildings in certain parts of Dublin

ygolometsipe · 17-10-2016 01:18PM #1

Currently the maximum is [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]28m tall which is tiny compared to high rise buildings in London [/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]London has over 63 buildings over 100m[/font]
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_London[/font]
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]I think this would have huge benefits to help with housing and to attract foreign direct investment.[/font]
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The question is, would you support high rise buildings in some parts of Dublin i.e. IFSC [/font]

BrokenArrows · 17-10-2016 01:38PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

Currently the maximum is [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]28m tall which is tiny compared to high rise buildings in London [/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]London has over 63 buildings over 100m[/font]
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_London[/font]
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]I think this would have huge benefits to help with housing and to attract foreign direct investment.[/font]
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The question is, would you support high rise buildings in some parts of Dublin i.e. IFSC [/font]

Yes.

It makes no sense to limit the height of buildings as long as proper procedures are followed.

1. It needs to be a good looking building. There is no desire to have a towering grey mass in the sky.

2. The required parking needs to be properly designed. If they plan on building an apartment block to house hundreds of people then sufficient underground parking needs to be provided with a minimum of 1 space per apartment. Same applies to commercial buildings.

3. Road access needs to be considered and built to accommodate the new building. Road access should be completed before building work begins.

4. If its apartments then it needs to be a mix of different grade apartments which include "affordable" up to expensive all in the one building. Dedicating entire buildings to "affordable" is a bad idea because they will just become slums.

5. Apartments then they need to be built to a very high standard. In ireland we seem to accept paper walled shoeboxes for apartments. New buildings need to be quality, sound insulated and large. The planning officers need to dictate to improve the standard of accommodation.

kerosene · 17-10-2016 01:40PM

A 60 plus storey building is under construction in manchester at present.

ChikiChiki · 17-10-2016 01:42PM

We need to go high-rise to remain competitive. The housing crisis is turning a lot away from the country and international businesses are starting to take note. The city is sprawling unnecessarily far out and public transport is poor.

BrokenArrows · 17-10-2016 01:53PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The city is sprawling unnecessarily far out and public transport is poor.

Ya, The government like putting themselves into catch 22 situations. No building without transport, no transport because of no money, no money because of no buildings.

Its amazing how we have the capital of a country which cant put together a comprehenive transport system.

Lollipops23 · 17-10-2016 02:10PM

I absolutely think high rise should be permitted- with proper planning and designed well. Look at some of the eye sores that went up in the 60s/70s- Wood Quay, the Ballymun flats. We don't want a city full of those.

Idbatterim · 17-10-2016 02:26PM

its beyond ridiculous here. The housing crisis, spiralling commercial and hotel rates, reducing our competitiveness again. Forget about Dublin, this does the whole economy damage.

The "just because" argument against taller buildings in Dublin is a joke. I cant find one good argument against them IN THE RIGHT LOCATION. I can list off a ton of negatives though...

Id go as far as saying that this housing crisis, is government choice. Ok so central bank rightfully wont change their current rules. Here is an option that costs nothing to implement, allow taller buildings and potentially reduce building regs on certain fronts, i.e. dual aspect, lift ratio and outdoor space ratio.

These units could then be provided in abundance, it really could kickstart the market again, free up family homes, give people the choice if they want to live in one of these newer cheaper apartments or sink everything into renting an older unit etc.

A 60 plus storey building is under construction in manchester at present.

yeah they are building quite a few high rise, yet dublin, building non, has far higher lands costs and rents are far higher too, go figure...

ChikiChiki · 17-10-2016 02:41PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

its beyond ridiculous here. The housing crisis, spiralling commercial and hotel rates, reducing our competitiveness again. Forget about Dublin, this does the whole economy damage.

The "just because" argument against taller buildings in Dublin is a joke. I cant find one good argument against them IN THE RIGHT LOCATION. I can list off a ton of negatives though...

Id go as far as saying that this housing crisis, is government choice. Ok so central bank rightfully wont change their current rules. Here is an option that costs nothing to implement, allow taller buildings and potentially reduce building regs on certain fronts, i.e. dual aspect, lift ratio and outdoor space ratio.

These units could then be provided in abundance, it really could kickstart the market again, free up family homes, give people the choice if they want to live in one of these newer cheaper apartments or sink everything into renting an older unit etc.

I agree and I think many of our politicians are in the game with the sole motivation to enrich themselves. They don't want the common sense approach like the above if it means more supply and reduced prices in rental and housing markets etc. Many of our TDs are property owners, site owners and landlords. Something stinks as policy in the area is a joke.

Personally I'm leaving the country because of housing. It's gone beyond a joke.

kenmc · 17-10-2016 04:12PM

In theory yes, but not with our shower of cowboys behind them. Bloody things be falling down before they're finished building them. Remember priory hall, longboat quay, the apartments in carrickmines where the entire roof blew off a couple of years back?and those are all only a few stories high and still can't do them right. No way in hell would I trust anything higher being churned out by our boyos

Walter H Price · 17-10-2016 04:13PM

Yes , High density private residential all over the noth and south city center please glass and steel get it done

Jayop · 17-10-2016 04:15PM

As a non-Dub I'd say absolutely yes, go big and go beautiful. There's some amazing architecture going on now with high rise buildings and they could really add (or create) a great city-scape.

Ush1 · 17-10-2016 04:17PM

Certainly in the IFSC there should be high rise buildings and all around Grand Canal dock.

Grayson · 17-10-2016 04:21PM

The vote so far is 56 yes, 2 no.

That's pretty damn close to a consensus.

4068ac1elhodqr · 17-10-2016 04:27PM

for sure, Belfast currently has the three tallest buildings on the island of Ireland, but only around half the population of Dublin.

Jayop · 17-10-2016 04:30PM

Alaric Long Handshake wrote: »

for sure, Belfast currently has the three tallest buildings on the island of Ireland, but only around half the population of Dublin.

And my hometown sports the tallest structure. The Tyrone Eiffel tower!

Winterlong · 17-10-2016 04:41PM

It is a bit bizzare that a modern western capital city with a population of 1.4 million does not have any high rise buildings.

The Obel tower in belfast is a lovely building IMO. And great views from within.

nice_guy80 · 17-10-2016 04:50PM

The building density allowed on a site needs to be changed and much better designed buildings with a mix of apartments, studio apartments, office and retail space. Once the building is within 5 minutes walk of a public park

go to Stockholm and they have much higher density of buildings in the city and mixed use

ScumLord · 17-10-2016 05:59PM

It's stupid for a city that wants to market itself as a major European capital has such restrictions. Dublin hasn't really got a skyline, from the air it just looks like a town that got out of control.

London has some fabulous vistas, mixing a thousand years of architecture so you can see an ancient castle, a roman wall, a victorian masterpiece and a physics defying sky scraper all in one scene.

kenmc wrote: »

In theory yes, but not with our shower of cowboys behind them. Bloody things be falling down before they're finished building them. Remember priory hall, longboat quay, the apartments in carrickmines where the entire roof blew off a couple of years back?and those are all only a few stories high and still can't do them right. No way in hell would I trust anything higher being churned out by our boyos

Sorry but I hate this attitude in Ireland, "we can't do anything because we'll be **** at it", the way you get better at things is to do them, fail, and do them again using what you learned the first time. If we never do these things we'll never get any better at it.

ChikiChiki · 17-10-2016 06:17PM

Dublin should take the bull by the horns here. There is a massive, absolutely massive opportunity with Brexit aswell to become a major European financial centre. We could be like a Singapore of Europe. Unfortunately ambition seems to be lacking which is so frustrating.

An area should be zoned out past the IFSC to the docklands where high rise can be built and the restrictions could be kept in the current city centre retaining the old charm. A bit like an old and new Dublin. I find skyscrapers when done correctly can be beautiful buildings and really add to a city.

4068ac1elhodqr · 17-10-2016 06:41PM

If Western Europe's tallest tower (The 7132 Hotel) can be built up (and blended into) in the Swiss Alps, and in a tiny village (ready for 2019), it can be built anywhere. It will be actually be the same height as the Empire State Building once complete.

Reflective style buildings can also be made to reduce shadow impact.

Maybe the best idea of all, could be to build carbon neutral, on land reclaimed from the sea as in Singapore Might take a team of Geologists to find a suitable spot however. On the plus side roadworks and inconvenience would be reduced.

Idbatterim · 17-10-2016 06:44PM

for sure, Belfast currently has the three tallest buildings on the island of Ireland, but only around half the population of Dublin

capital docks has a 23 floor apartment block being built, 1 m short of Windsor house and 6 short of obel...

The exo building has planning to go up to 90m, which would make it the tallest on the island... wait till all of the remaining low hanging fruit is gone, i.e. the last of the bulk of land in the docklands. We will see what happens then, in terms of how much longer this will continue for.

There was talk before the bust, of relocating Dublin port and developing the land for commercial, residential etc. Land values would have to be high- very high to justify it though and there is no point in it, if its for the likes of the crap they are putting up in the docklands now...

Dublin should take the bull by the horns here. There is a massive, absolutely massive opportunity with Brexit aswell to become a major European financial centre. We could be like a Singapore of Europe. Unfortunately ambition seems to be lacking which is so frustrating.

yeah don't hold your breath, there are some great things about Dublin, but as alternative to London, its a joke on a lot of fronts. No transport network. No impressive modern architecture. Housing situation here is relatively a bigger joke than London, I actually reckon London is far better value, you are actually living in a world class, world city there!

Jayop · 17-10-2016 06:44PM

I'd love some of the 7 who voted no to come in and say why. Would be an interesting perspective.

ygolometsipe · 17-10-2016 06:47PM

Grayson wrote: »

The vote so far is 56 yes, 2 no.

That's pretty damn close to a consensus.

Almost 100 votes and its > 90% in favor.
I think Dublin City Council is largely against high rise buildings.

"The issue is a contentious one that has seen councillors and DCC management pulling in different directions."

It was only recently even increased to 28 meters :eek:

"The new regulations would change it so that apartments and office blocks can be up to 28 metres in the inner city, up to 24 metres above rail hubs and up to 16 metres in the outer city."

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-tall-buildings-problems-2795550-May2016/

If councilors are elected its amazing this is not a more prominent election issue.

Idbatterim · 17-10-2016 06:48PM

I'd love some of the 7 who voted no to come in ans say why. Would be an interesting perspective.

ballymun probably, its was the towers that were the problem! Funny how in alto vetro, a 16 floor apartment building in the docklands, we don't hear of any social issues :rolleyes:

Jayop · 17-10-2016 06:48PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

If councilors are elected its amazing this is not a more prominent election issue.

I'd imagine while people are largely pro building up, it's not a doorstep issue that you'd expect the average joe to take up with a potential councilor.

Jayop · 17-10-2016 06:50PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

ballymun probably, its was the towers that were the problem! Funny how in alto vetro, a 16 floor apartment building in the docklands, we don't hear of any social issues :rolleyes:

No-one is really talking about high rise cinderblocks like that though. Beautiful glass building with a huge variety of different types of housing. If that is indeed why the few are against it then I guess you'll never change their minds.

Idbatterim · 17-10-2016 06:51PM

If councilors are elected its amazing this is not a more prominent election issue.

think about it, they go looking for votes, what is the easiest vote winner usually? "not on our doorstep" they are going to existing residents, the rest of us, can go to hell...

I mentioned this recently, I am not sure how this is done in other countries, who gets to decide the density etc. But there is a big conflict of interest here and we have very weak government. I am assuming in other countries, there is far more of a balance struck, for the common good!

My honest opinion is, that Ireland in general, is ruled by an incredibly conservative and backwards generation. I think things will change a lot in the next decade or two...

No-one is really talking about high rise cinderblocks like that though. Beautiful glass building with a huge variety of different types of housing. If that is indeed why the few are against it then I guess you'll never change their minds.

sorry I was being sarcastic in terms of ballymun. youll never please all of the people, all of the time. Forget even trying to do that. If they want to live in a city and have neighbouring two floor buildings, let them move to a village or in the countryside. Its probably Irelands biggest issue, talk talk talk, consensus, compromise. Forget it. We don't have some bloody Rome like skyline, in fact we have none...

Jayop · 17-10-2016 06:58PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

think about it, they go looking for votes, what is the easiest vote winner usually? "not on our doorstep" they are going to existing residents, the rest of us, can go to hell...

I mentioned this recently, I am not sure how this is done in other countries, who gets to decide the density etc. But there is a big conflict of interest here and we have very weak government. I am assuming in other countries, there is far more of a balance struck, for the common good!

My honest opinion is, that Ireland in general, is ruled by an incredibly conservative and backwards generation. I think things will change a lot in the next decade or two...

sorry I was being sarcastic in terms of ballymun. youll never please all of the people, all of the time. Forget even trying to do that. If they want to live in a city and have neighbouring two floor buildings, let them move to a village or in the countryside. Its probably Irelands biggest issue, talk talk talk, consensus, compromise. Forget it. We don't have some bloody Rome like skyline, in fact we have none...

It's the kind of thing that if you had a proper mayor for Dublin they could run with it as one of the big picture ideas that they would have for people. Councilors (at least down the country where I am) are pot hole fixers and wouldn't know a high rise if it was half way up their.......

Dr Crayfish · 17-10-2016 06:58PM

I wonder if the OP read the same Guardian article I did today. Anyway, talk of Big Banking moving from London to Dublin post-Brexit is being laughed off by most experts because we simply don't have the space and are unwilling to build upwards. I think the Citibank tower in Canary Wharf has something like 1.2 million sq/ft of office space, probably the equivalent of most of the IFSC.
So no, we can't avail of a great opportunity because we couldn't accommodate these massive companies.
Why wont we do this though? I've never met anyone who would be opposed. It must be 100% down to NIMBYism and no one having the f**king BALLS to do anything progressive in this country. Pass the hot potato. Joke of a country...

mohawk · 17-10-2016 07:02PM

IFSC and Grand Canal would be perfect for mixed use high rise. I think mixed use is important. Business only high rises would be a ghost town on weekends. There should be everything from studios to luxury penthouses.

You could probably go a bit higher then what is currently there in places like Sandyford and Cherrywood. Obviously not skyscraper high.

Dr Crayfish · 17-10-2016 07:04PM

mohawk wrote: »

Obviously not skyscraper high.

Obviously not! Care to enlighten us why not?

Poll - allow high-rise buildings in certain parts of Dublin

Do you support high-rise buildings in Dublin (greater than 90 meters) 190 votes

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