UK Votes to leave EU

Todd Toddington III · 16-10-2016 05:46PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yep, so the IRA (the one from the 60s) were terrorists since they failed, and took up jobs administering the failed Orange apartheid statelet for their Westminster colonialist masters.

Did I get that right? Hard to follow Republican logic sometimes.

You saying I'm a republican? Lol...far from it sunshine. Go judge someone else on here. Another clown for the ignore button

maryishere · 16-10-2016 05:46PM

We chose violence to leave a union from which we were the net beneficiary 100 years ago.

The British have been net contributors to the EEC /EC / EU since it started (its second biggest ) but they are finally getting sense and democratically want to leave it.

There is the difference.

Enzokk · 16-10-2016 05:52PM

maryishere wrote: »

We chose violence to leave a union from which we were the net beneficiary 100 years ago.

The British have been net contributors to the EEC /EC / EU since it started (its second biggest ) but they are finally getting sense and democratically want to leave it.

There is the difference.

Really? Ireland and Irish people were beneficiary's of English rule? They just one day decided, screw this money and land we all have, I want to cause a little chaos. Do you believe what you post sometimes?

Do you think the UK would have been as strong without the EU? Are you saying that there has been no benefit of the EU membership? If the answer is yes they have benefited from being part of the EU then the cost they had to pay isn't relevant.

CMOTDibbler · 16-10-2016 05:58PM

maryishere wrote: »

We chose violence to leave a union from which we were the net beneficiary 100 years ago.

The British have been net contributors to the EEC /EC / EU since it started (its second biggest ) but they are finally getting sense and democratically want to leave it.

There is the difference.

I don't know how you can say we were the net beneficiary from British rule. Most of the land was owned by British landowners. Rents were paid to them and crops were sold to their net benefit.

maryishere · 16-10-2016 06:11PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Really? Ireland and Irish people were beneficiary's of English rule?

Economically, socially, culturally ...yes, and in terms of infrastructure like railways, canals, harbours, fine old buildings, universities, architecture, legal system, job opportunities abroad ( a third of the British administration in India was Irish ) etc we benefited.

Enzokk wrote: »

They just one day decided, screw this money and land we all have, I want to cause a little chaos.

It was not one day, as any reader of Irish history would know. Some Irish people wanted to leave the union just as some English people want to leave the EU now.

Enzokk wrote: »

Do you think the UK would have been as strong without the EU?

It depends on what Europe would have been like without the EU. The UK may well have been a lot stronger than it is now if it did not financially support weaker countries like us for decades, through the EEC / EC / EU. Remember when Albert Reynolds came back from Edinburgh in '92 with an extra 8 billion?

Enzokk wrote: »

Are you saying that there has been no benefit of the EU membership?

There have been both positive and negative aspects to membership. The EU has changed a lot since the EEC / EU of the seventies / eighties , even nineties. It is a lot bigger and more powerful now.

Zubeneschamali · 16-10-2016 06:12PM

Grayson wrote: »

I wouldn't describe myself as anti English.

Scotland play England. Wales play England. France (yes, feckin France!) play England.

And the Irish West-Brit rugby fans support? Everyone against England.

Eurovision: England gives Ireland Douze Points, because we are neighbours and pals. We give them zero. Year after year.

They simply do not grasp how history has set them up to be disliked by everyone on the planet.

Except the Americans, for some reason.

Zubeneschamali · 16-10-2016 06:13PM

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

You saying I'm a republican?

Eh, no. You are perhaps over sensitive.

16-10-2016 06:18PM

Eurovosion, UK gives Ireland 12 points because there's millions of Irish in the UK, not even counting the population of NI.

maryishere · 16-10-2016 06:19PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Scotland play England. Wales play England. France (yes, feckin France!) play England.

And the Irish West-Brit rugby fans support? Everyone against England.

Eurovision: England gives Ireland Douze Points, because we are neighbours and pals. We give them zero. Year after year.
.

A lot of Irish people were brainwashed in to hating England. Not their fault. But if they end up in a country without an Irish embassy and are in trouble, the British embassy is the one that helps. Funny that.

Todd Toddington III · 16-10-2016 06:19PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, no. You are perhaps over sensitive.

Probably I am. Sorry I took it the wrong way

Calina · 16-10-2016 06:22PM

maryishere wrote: »

A lot of Irish people were brainwashed in to hating England. Not their fault. But if they end up in a country without an Irish embassy and are in trouble, the British embassy is the one that helps. Funny that.

I believe any EU embassy will help now.

First Up · 16-10-2016 06:25PM

Zubeneschamali wrote:

Eurovision: England gives Ireland Douze Points, because we are neighbours and pals. We give them zero. Year after year.

Britain gives Ireland points because there's a lot of Irish in England - plus the small matter of Northern Ireland.

Eurovision is now pretty well decided by whoever has the largest diaspora.

Enzokk · 16-10-2016 06:39PM

maryishere wrote: »

Economically, socially, culturally ...yes, and in terms of infrastructure like railways, canals, harbours, fine old buildings, universities, architecture, legal system, job opportunities abroad ( a third of the British administration in India was Irish ) etc we benefited.

As I have replied to your posts before, the reason for all of the infrastructure in the colonies wasn't out of love for the local population. It was out of necessity to transport the resources they wanted from the land they were occupying. Whether it was spices or gold or food.

maryishere wrote: »

It depends on what Europe would have been like without the EU. The UK may well have been a lot stronger than it is now if it did not financially support weaker countries like us for decades, through the EEC / EC / EU. Remember when Albert Reynolds came back from Edinburgh in '92 with an extra 8 billion?

There have been both positive and negative aspects to membership. The EU has changed a lot since the EEC / EU of the seventies / eighties , even nineties. It is a lot bigger and more powerful now.

Its not what Europe would have been like without the EU, its whether the UK received any benefit from being part of the EU. Did the UK receive net benefits from paying into the EU? Would they have been as prosperous if the city of London weren't able to be the financial centre as it is now?

Pro Hoc Vice · 16-10-2016 06:52PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Scotland play England. Wales play England. France (yes, feckin France!) play England.

And the Irish West-Brit rugby fans support? Everyone against England.

Eurovision: England gives Ireland Douze Points, because we are neighbours and pals. We give them zero. Year after year.

They simply do not grasp how history has set them up to be disliked by everyone on the planet.

Except the Americans, for some reason.

Why are you telling lies about Eurovision?

With such collegiate influence afoot, who CAN the UK rely on to make it feel like less like an island, as the votes come in? According to the serious number-crunching of accounting technicians AAT, our biggest Eurovision friend is Ireland, who’ve given us 187 points in total since both countries participated for the first time in 1957. Besides this predictable ally, our most loyal supporters have been Austria (175 votes) and Portugal (152).

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5733095ee4b05c31e572d99a

How the **** after according to you giving 0 after 0 have Ireland given the highest total votes to the UK.

catbear · 16-10-2016 07:02PM

Don't forget they love us so much they voted "a nation once again" as their top song on a BBC poll.

CMOTDibbler · 16-10-2016 08:07PM

This discussion seems to be going around in circles. It's almost boiling down to a "Yes it is, no it isn't" argument.

There will be plenty of time to see how the experiment works out. Lots of time really. So far the signs aren't good, but it's very, very early days yet.

Strangely, one of the beneficiaries here will be the German multiples like Aldi and Lidl who aren't dependant on distributors in the UK and therefore price fluctuations to counteract the currency deficit.

greendom · 16-10-2016 08:35PM

May to consider paying billions post Brexit to preserve the financial service industry's access to the EU markets.

Is this what she means hard Brexit? That it will be hard on Britain.

FrancieBrady · 16-10-2016 08:48PM

greendom wrote: »

May to consider paying billions post Brexit to preserve the financial service industry's access to the EU markets.

Is this what she means hard Brexit? That it will be hard on Britain.

Access but no say. That's 'control' apparently.

The Rape of Lucretia · 16-10-2016 08:56PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Access but no say. That's 'control' apparently.

Yes, it is. Exactly that. You control your own country, and decide what interaction you will have with other ones, and choosing or not to pay a price for it.
Why are people so down on the UK on this point ? What is wrong with wanting to be in control ? Brexit will enable them to take back control. Giving freedom and greater self determination. Surely entirely laudable and to be respected ?

Capt'n Midnight · 16-10-2016 08:59PM

dinorebel wrote: »

Simple answer to that one the UK had the ability to set it's own interest rates rather than being subjected to rates set for the German economy.

Much of the time this just meant they followed the Bundesbank a few hours later.

FrancieBrady · 16-10-2016 09:04PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes, it is. Exactly that. You control your own country, and decide what interaction you will have with other ones, and choosing or not to pay a price for it.
Why are people so down on the UK on this point ? What is wrong with wanting to be in control ? Brexit will enable them to take back control. Giving freedom and greater self determination. Surely entirely laudable and to be respected ?

Nobody was forcing them to sell financial services before.
Now they will pay through the nose to do exactly what they were doing. It makes no sense to anyone but Brexiters.

CMOTDibbler · 16-10-2016 09:05PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes, it is. Exactly that. You control your own country, and decide what interaction you will have with other ones, and choosing or not to pay a price for it.
Why are people so down on the UK on this point ? What is wrong with wanting to be in control ? Brexit will enable them to take back control. Giving freedom and greater self determination. Surely entirely laudable and to be respected ?

Absolutely. I couldn't disagree with that at all.

But is that what the electorate were told and what they voted for?

The Rape of Lucretia · 16-10-2016 09:14PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody was forcing them to sell financial services before.
Now they will pay through the nose to do exactly what they were doing. It makes no sense to anyone but Brexiters.

You are missing the point. It makes no sense to those who see everything in £ notes. But there is much more to it than that. That is why, to the surprise and confusion of others, the campaigns far from focused on the financial aspect. It was a factor - but so were self determination, a belief in Britain being Britain, Westminster being the centre of power and expression of democracy, control of its borders and decision making over who can enter the country, for how long, and with what rights to work there, access state services, reside, cucumber snadwiches, Lord Nelson, Waterloo, The Jewel in the Crown, the Magna Carta, etc. Open your minds a little to what it means to have a sense of national identity, pride, sense of tradition, coherence, continuity, and influence in the running of your country and the colour of its society and character. This is what motivated people to vote Brexit. Many here on this forum are lacking this insight - but you are not alone - there are many 'experts' in Brussels who are equally at sea.

Shenshen · 16-10-2016 09:16PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes, it is. Exactly that. You control your own country, and decide what interaction you will have with other ones, and choosing or not to pay a price for it.
Why are people so down on the UK on this point ? What is wrong with wanting to be in control ? Brexit will enable them to take back control. Giving freedom and greater self determination. Surely entirely laudable and to be respected ?

I'm struggling with this logic - right now, they have control inasmuch as they are part of the decisionmaking process of the EU. They have control not only of their own country, but also some control of the direction other EU countries will go, together with them.

Once they've left, they will not have that control any more. Not olny have they less control over how their own country interacts with its biggest trading partners, they will have no control of how those partners themselves will develop.

On top of that, it's reasonable to expect that in order to maintain the trade links they have now with the EU, they will end up paying more than they do now.

I don't really see how that's greater self-determination. It's a little like saying becoming unmployed is a step towards greater self-determination.

Shenshen · 16-10-2016 09:19PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You are missing the point. It makes no sense to those who see everything in £ notes. But there is much more to it than that. That is why, to the surprise and confusion of others, the campaigns far from focused on the financial aspect. It was a factor - but so were self determination, a belief in Britain being Britain, Westminster being the centre of power and expression of democracy, control of its borders and decision making over who can enter the country, for how long, and with what rights to work there, access state services, reside, cucumber snadwiches, Lord Nelson, Waterloo, The Jewel in the Crown, the Magna Carta, etc. Open your minds a little to what it means to have a sense of national identity, pride, sense of tradition, coherence, continuity, and influence in the running of your country and the colour of its society and character. This is what motivated people to vote Brexit. Many here on this forum are lacking this insight - but you are not alone - there are many 'experts' in Brussels who are equally at sea.

I don't think there are many on here who don't realise that a difuse desire to influence the colour of society played a huge part in that vote.
As did an over-hyped sense of nostalgia.

FrancieBrady · 16-10-2016 09:21PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You are missing the point. It makes no sense to those who see everything in £ notes. But there is much more to it than that. That is why, to the surprise and confusion of others, the campaigns far from focused on the financial aspect. It was a factor - but so were self determination, a belief in Britain being Britain, Westminster being the centre of power and expression of democracy, control of its borders and decision making over who can enter the country, for how long, and with what rights to work there, access state services, reside, cucumber snadwiches, Lord Nelson, Waterloo, The Jewel in the Crown, the Magna Carta, etc. Open your minds a little to what it means to have a sense of national identity, pride, sense of tradition, coherence, continuity, and influence in the running of your country and the colour of its society and character. This is what motivated people to vote Brexit. Many here on this forum are lacking this insight - but you are not alone - there are many 'experts' in Brussels who are equally at sea.

I am not missing your point.
That Brexit manifesto you posted is based on the usual scaremongering about the EU that the UK hadn't even fully signed up to.

Enzokk · 16-10-2016 09:54PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You are missing the point. It makes no sense to those who see everything in £ notes. But there is much more to it than that. That is why, to the surprise and confusion of others, the campaigns far from focused on the financial aspect. It was a factor - but so were self determination, a belief in Britain being Britain, Westminster being the centre of power and expression of democracy, control of its borders and decision making over who can enter the country, for how long, and with what rights to work there, access state services, reside, cucumber snadwiches, Lord Nelson, Waterloo, The Jewel in the Crown, the Magna Carta, etc. Open your minds a little to what it means to have a sense of national identity, pride, sense of tradition, coherence, continuity, and influence in the running of your country and the colour of its society and character. This is what motivated people to vote Brexit. Many here on this forum are lacking this insight - but you are not alone - there are many 'experts' in Brussels who are equally at sea.

That is all fine and well, but the real world will come knocking in to time. What you are talking about is the illusion of control when in reality they have given up more control. Even if they have a "soft" Brexit, they will have no say in the single market. A hard Brexit allows them to do deals with other countries other than the EU, but are we really thinking they will bypass the EU totally regarding trade?

Then there is the immigration question. Even if they are able to close their borders to EU citizens, immigration of non-EU citizens are still in the hundreds of thousands a year. There will still be a need for nurses and doctors, and if you take away the Polish and other EU workers in this field it means more Filipinos and Indians. Is that control?

Zubeneschamali · 16-10-2016 09:54PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You are missing the point. It makes no sense to those who see everything in £ notes.

Do we need to repost pictures of the battle bus and the wall-sized posters about the £350 million a week? A huge part of the Leave campaign was that the EU costs the UK money.

Of course even Boris, in his pro-EU column before he chose a side, wrote that access was cheap at that price.

They will not get it so cheap ever again, but they will get it, because they need it. It will just cost more. But, miniature Union Jacks and Rule Britannia! Well done, Boris!

catbear · 16-10-2016 10:04PM

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose....

In fairness to the UK it's never really known compromise. It's empire wasn't a union, it just dictated its terms down the barrel of a gun and it would sooner bugger itself than cede any control.

When Alexander reached the mouth of the Indus he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer.

First Up · 16-10-2016 10:10PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

Yes, it is. Exactly that. You control your own country, and decide what interaction you will have with other ones, and choosing or not to pay a price for it. Why are people so down on the UK on this point ? What is wrong with wanting to be in control ? Brexit will enable them to take back control. Giving freedom and greater self determination. Surely entirely laudable and to be respected ?

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

Yes, it is. Exactly that. You control your own country, and decide what interaction you will have with other ones, and choosing or not to pay a price for it.

But the price is decided by others

UK Votes to leave EU

Comments