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UK Votes to leave EU

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Comments

  • #9602
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Like Norway they export energy and buy manufactured goods, so EU membership is win-win.

    Size and population are similar to ours. And I can't see them leaving the Common Travel Area.

    If they are poorer than the UK then they'd benefit from EU aid. Then again so would most of the the UK outside London / South East.


    A lot depends on how the UK's assets and debts are shared out. And of course there is the loophole of Scotland already being in the UK. And of course of the separate parts of Germany and Czechoslovakia and a few of the parts of Yugoslavia now being in the EU

    So the eu lose a net contributor and gain another net recipient.

    I bet the Germans can't wait.

    Which does beg the question, who will make up the short fall in eu funding when the UK leaves, or will budgets be cut?


  • #9603
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Did Billy go to the Boyne so that the Chuckle Brothers would chuckle?

    Connolly would not have been against progress and the nation making a sovereign decision to do something.

    Who cares about those guys ? Long dead and buried and irrelevances.


  • #9604
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Calina wrote: »

    That being said, one of the things which worries me about some people in Ireland is they forget 1916 was 100 years ago and keep projecting onto men who are long dead. You don't know what Connolly would think and to project your desired belief on to him is arrogant.
    Especially when you consider that the first quarter of the 21st century is so different to that of the first quarter of the 20th.

    The shift from manual labour in agriculture to mechanised farming and the population shift from rural to urban living for starters.


  • #9605
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Not really. Detonating a bomb in a packed shopping centre or restaurant is pretty much an unambiguous act of terrorism.

    Well yes really actually...The actions are irrelevant when the winners write their version of history


  • #9606
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Yes, that is great.

    Now answer my question. If Irish Republicans cared so much for innocent life why did they plant bombs in Shopping malls on a busy Saturday.

    That's what your crowd call "collateral damage" when they do it, if I recall correctly. It doesn't seem to bother British jingoists then so spare us the feigned moral outrage when non-British forces do it.


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  • #9607
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Not really. Detonating a bomb in a packed shopping centre or restaurant is pretty much an unambiguous act of terrorism.

    Dropping bombs on a city shopping centre is just war though right?? Anyway this is sidetracking to the main discussion


  • #9608
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Who cares about those guys ? Long dead and buried and irrelevances.

    I agree.
    For some though they are very relevant. Witness the months of July and August. :D


  • #9609
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

    Aren't you forgetting that holidays in Spain started during Franco's time ?

    Or that the nearest alternative is North Africa.
    /quote]

    The nearest alternative is Portugal and just as cheap


  • #9610
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    On topic, I see the British-based Financial Times reported a few days ago that the British state is going to have to pay €20 billion as part of their "divorce" proceedings to fufil the financial obligations the British state signed up to through the decades. Unsurprisingly, this massive cost of Brexit to British taxpayers was not highlighted in the Brexit vote.

    UK faces Brexit divorce bill of up to €20bn

    I note that the British - as they "take back control" - have accepted all EU legislation regarding standards and quality as part of their own law because if they don't UK products and services will not be able to access the EU market. So once again the British have the obligations of EU membership without the benefits. Another "victory" for the Brexiters. But sure at least they're "taking back control" from the EU.

    May unable to deliver on Brexit deregulation promise


    I also note that due to weak sterling all imports into Britain are costing more as it takes more sterling to pay for the goods in the exporter's currency. This is particularly affecting food prices, which everybody needs. Yet another way the poorest in British society will pay disproportionately for Brexit.

    As the costs of Brexit become clearer watch the British government go back to their electorate with a vote on their final "deal", and the British voting to remain in the EU. I think at that stage the rest of the EU should have a vote to kick the pathetic, jingoistic, insular drama queens out. They have cut off their nose to spite their face. Major league arseholes.


  • #9611
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Todd Toddington III wrote: »
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

    Aren't you forgetting that holidays in Spain started during Franco's time ?

    Or that the nearest alternative is North Africa.
    /quote]

    The nearest alternative is Portugal and just as cheap

    Portugal uses euros as well though.


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  • #9612
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    James Connolly would be rolling in his grave that Ireland is part of the capitalistic tyrant machine which is the EU.

    Unless your a historian specialising in the rising and James Connolly then this is pure conjecture on you're part


  • #9613
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So the eu lose a net contributor and gain another net recipient.

    I bet the Germans can't wait.

    Which does beg the question, who will make up the short fall in eu funding when the UK leaves, or will budgets be cut?

    No one wins in Brexit.


  • #9614
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    the evasion_kid wrote: »
    There's irish Republicans on this thread who are in support of the EU...how odd can ya get

    What a weird view. It would be ineffably odder if an Irish nationalist of any description supported Brexit and the rise of "British Isles" jingoism once again. The Irish people have suffered more than enough from those knuckledraggers of European civilisation. And let us never forget. Vive L'Europe.


  • #9615
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What a weird view. It would be ineffably odder if an Irish nationalist of any description supported Brexit and the rise of "British Isles" jingoism once again. The Irish people have suffered more than enough from those knuckledraggers of European civilisation. And let us never forget. Vive L'Europe.

    Talk about missing the point...I even see Adams and Co. Coming under fire for the same thing! Yeah Vive L'Europe....I'll be saying the same thing as I watch from the sidelines,chawing on an apple, as the EU goes up in flames...


  • #9616
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,013 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/16/brexit-debate-iwould-give-game-away-to-brussels-priti-patel

    Priti Patel has said revealing Britain’s negotiation position during talks with European Union leaders over the country’s departure from the bloc would be akin to revealing her hand in a high-stakes game of poker.

    The international development secretary, who was a prominent leave campaigner and is said to be among the ministers on Theresa May’s Brexit committee, said a debate in the House of Commons over the terms of UK’s departure would give the game away to Brussels.

    “If I were to sit down and play poker with you this morning, I’m not going to show you my cards before we even start playing the game,” she told BBC1’s Andrew Marr Show.

    Her comments came in the wake of a bid by a powerful cross-party group of MPs to force a parliamentary vote on whether the government should reveal its plans for the UK’s future outside the EU before negotiations begin, spearheaded by former party leaders Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg and including shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer, former Tory minister Nick Herbert and leave-backing Conservative MP Stephen Phillips.

    I can't think of any major international trade deals where one party refused to signify what they want before it started.


  • #9617
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No one wins in Brexit.

    In the medium to long term it is quite possible the UK will be proved correct, yet again. It was proved correct 12 years ago in staying outside the Eurozone, for example.


  • #9618
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So the eu lose a net contributor and gain another net recipient.

    I bet the Germans can't wait.

    Which does beg the question, who will make up the short fall in eu funding when the UK leaves, or will budgets be cut?

    Good post. Nobody has answered that question yet.


  • #9619
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    maryishere wrote: »
    Good post. Nobody has answered that question yet.

    Who do you think will make it up? Take your time.


  • #9620
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    maryishere wrote: »
    In the medium to long term it is quite possible the UK will be proved correct, yet again. It was proved correct 12 years ago in staying outside the Eurozone, for example.

    What good did staying out of the EZ do them?


  • #9621
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What good did staying out of the EZ do them?

    It made Brexit much easier. Not that it's going to be easy but having to disentangle from a joint currency would complicate things an awful lot more.


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  • #9622
    dinorebel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭dinorebel


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What good did staying out of the EZ do them?
    Simple answer to that one the UK had the ability to set it's own interest rates rather than being subjected to rates set for the German economy.


  • #9623
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No one wins in Brexit.
    I wouldn't say that. It's an adjustment for most and a challenge for some but ultimately the only real long term loser is the UK.


  • #9624
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What good did staying out of the EZ do them?
    The ability to set it's own interest rates rather than being subjected to rates set for the German economy served the UK well this past 12 or 14 years. We in Ireland had **** all say in setting interest rates in the Eurozone, and in 2002 - 2006 interest rates were far to low for Ireland - they were set to suit the Germans and Brussels. The resultant property boom and subsequent crash and bank bailout is something our grandchildren will still be paying for.

    The UK had not as bad a property crash as ours, and their unemployment is less than half the EU average. They were proved right.


  • #9625
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    catbear wrote: »
    ...but ultimately the only real long term loser is the UK.

    lol. We will see. The eu lose a net contributor, historically its second biggest.
    I bet the Germans can't wait. As said before, it does beg the question, who will make up the short fall in eu funding when the UK leaves, or will budgets be cut?


  • #9626
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,507 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Who actually thinks the Scots will vote for Independence?
    Every scot I know has said they're staying with the UK as they're part of it.
    They might not like the the way the vote went but at the end of the day they all say, we're part of the UK and we want it to stay that way.
    All the papers have been repeating Sturgeon's point of view but no one from the opposite view.


  • #9627
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    maryishere wrote: »
    The ability to set it's own interest rates rather than being subjected to rates set for the German economy served the UK well this past 12 or 14 years. We in Ireland had **** all say in setting interest rates in the Eurozone, and in 2002 - 2006 interest rates were far to low for Ireland - they were set to suit the Germans and Brussels. The resultant property boom and subsequent crash and bank bailout is something our grandchildren will still be paying for.

    The UK had not as bad a property crash as ours, and their unemployment is less than half the EU average. They were proved right.

    Still had a double dip recession, austerity and unemployment climbed.
    So not a great advantage really.

    It will be interesting to see if it can be used to survive the coming onslaught.


  • #9628
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Blazer wrote: »
    Who actually thinks the Scots will vote for Independence?
    Every scot I know has said they're staying with the UK as they're part of it.
    They might not like the the way the vote went but at the end of the day they all say, we're part of the UK and we want it to stay that way.
    All the papers have been repeating Sturgeon's point of view but no one from the opposite view.

    Then you need to speak to more Scots. Especially ones capable of more complex reasoning than 'we are part of the UK therefore will vote to stay in the UK'.

    Some want it to stay that way. Many didnt, even before this game changing Brexit event. Many more will have changed their minds as a result.

    Maybe the opposite view has melted away and there is no longer anyone to quote.


  • #9629
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    maryishere wrote: »
    lol. We will see. The eu lose a net contributor, historically its second biggest.
    I bet the Germans can't wait. As said before, it does beg the question, who will make up the short fall in eu funding when the UK leaves, or will budgets be cut?

    With the rebate and the EU money that would no longer need to go to under-privileged areas in the UK what is the actual net loss to the EU?


  • #9630
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Still had a double dip recession, austerity and unemployment climbed.
    But nothing like as bad a recession, austerity or unemployment as here in Ireland. Their unemployment is still less than half the EU average.


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  • #9631
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    maryishere wrote: »
    But nothing like as bad a recession, austerity or unemployment as here in Ireland. Their unemployment is still less than half the EU average.

    What has the comparison to somewhere else got to do with anything?

    They still had a double dip recession, austerity and unemployment rose.
    Shadow employment minister Stephen Timms said: "Pay excluding bonuses today is the lowest on record. Under this government wages after inflation have already fallen by more than £1,600 a year since 2010 and by next year working people will have seen the biggest fall in wages of any parliament since 1874.


    It was worse in Timbuktu though, I suppose. :rolleyes:


This discussion has been closed.
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