Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Maximus Alexander · 14-10-2016 01:18PM

RayCun wrote: »

More mandatory reading for novices
https://medium.com/running-with-data/fast-starts-slow-finishes-dublin-edition-46663817a05f#.8blclkh30

Look at the graph on hitting the wall.
Then look at the graph on fast starters and number of marathons run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then remind yourself how many marathons you have run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then print it out and pin it to your fridge. And stick it to your bedroom ceiling. And put a copy in your race bag. And tape a copy on your arm on race morning. And get a friend to stand at the mile mark with a billboard-sized version of the graph.
Know your pace, run your pace, and stay in control.

I absolutely love this sort of stuff!!

PauloMN wrote: »

Maybe next time, but not this time. I've tried to be as conservative as I can with my pacing as I really want to enjoy this day and be reasonably comfortable finishing. Sub 4 would be a dream for me, so that's my plan A. Will try to achieve that first before looking to knock more time off it.

A lot of this is down to me doing my one and only other marathon far too early in my running career. Knocked me for six and swore blind I'd never do one again. Only got the desire to get back on the marathon bus while spectating at last year's DCM, so one step at a time for me.

Makes a lot of sense, you sound like you know exactly what you want from the day and I hope it all goes right for you.

smashiner · 14-10-2016 01:27PM

It is Friday afternoon and the dreaded 'Taper Madness' is probably well and truly setting in for all the poor Novices :rolleyes:

Not sure if anyone has posted it on this thread yet but in an effort to stave off the impending madness I suggest that you check out 'Tommy Tiernan Declan Moffit' on YouTube......short sketch on how his mate Declan did two weeks training for a marathon with the obvious disastrous consequences......hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2SPhXdGK6s

Maximus Alexander · 14-10-2016 01:32PM

smashiner wrote: »

It is Friday afternoon and the dreaded 'Taper Madness' is probably well and truly setting in for all the poor Novices :rolleyes:

Not sure if anyone has posted it on this thread yet but in an effort to stave off the impending madness I suggest that you check out 'Tommy Tiernan Declan Moffit' on YouTube......short sketch on how his mate Declan did two weeks training for a marathon with the obvious disastrous consequences......hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2SPhXdGK6s

I saw this live back in the day, must be about 11 years ago. Cracked me up even then, long before I'd ever a thought in my head about running for a bus, let alone a marathon.

paddydriver · 14-10-2016 01:45PM

RayCun wrote: »

More mandatory reading for novices
https://medium.com/running-with-data/fast-starts-slow-finishes-dublin-edition-46663817a05f#.8blclkh30

Look at the graph on hitting the wall.
Then look at the graph on fast starters and number of marathons run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then remind yourself how many marathons you have run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then print it out and pin it to your fridge. And stick it to your bedroom ceiling. And put a copy in your race bag. And tape a copy on your arm on race morning. And get a friend to stand at the mile mark with a billboard-sized version of the graph.
Know your pace, run your pace, and stay in control.

Great reading.. Very good solid stats behind it... DON'T GO OUT FAST!

Wubble Wubble · 14-10-2016 01:48PM

Even more relevant with the current course profile. From the 2 mile marker to 7 is primarily a long slow drag up to Castleknock.

Wubble Wubble · 14-10-2016 01:54PM

Physio visit done and dusted.

Just before I turned the corner to the building, I heard a soft "plop" somewhere above. Was it what I thought it was? Sure enough, on removing my Dublin Marathon Race Series 2016 woolly hat, I discovered that a bird had dropped off its shopping on my head. Good job I wore the hat. Not a promising start!

Anyway, long story short, hip flexors and hamstring are very tight, so they got a good workout and feel much better now. Physio is going to email me a list of stretches and whatnot. He advised that (1) I should stretch more, especially after all the hard training (not to mention soon to be running 26.2 miles!) and (2) that the ITB may not (my emphasis) be 100% right on race day. But that's a lot better than I was thinking!

ToriV · 14-10-2016 03:27PM

Singer wrote: »

They'll always be Opal Fruits to me, but each to their own.

Hahaha! I knew It wasn't right! But they are still great... Def taking a pack with me on the day!

diego_b · 14-10-2016 04:09PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If I had a 1:43 half marathon I'd be going for 3:50, no question.

I have a 1:43(:43) half marathon and going for 4 hours and will do well to get it! The longer the distance, the less experienced the runner the more likely you are to try for a target that is too difficult and miss out. Some calculators tell me I can do 3:50 but I know I cannot do that yet, the pace required to do that unless perfect day/conditions and a super negative split...it ain't going to happen.

Tip for Goal Cs....forget about the time, just finish!

kin9pin · 14-10-2016 04:12PM

smashiner wrote: »

It is Friday afternoon and the dreaded 'Taper Madness' is probably well and truly setting in for all the poor Novices :rolleyes:

Not sure if anyone has posted it on this thread yet but in an effort to stave off the impending madness I suggest that you check out 'Tommy Tiernan Declan Moffit' on YouTube......short sketch on how his mate Declan did two weeks training for a marathon with the obvious disastrous consequences......hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2SPhXdGK6s

Just made the mistake of watching that on the Luas. Had a laughing fit, still getting those random giggles. Got a few funny looks.

aceygray · 14-10-2016 04:41PM

Did my 14 mile LSR yesterday, and it went well. It was still fairly tough, and I had to take one short walk break, but I got around it. I had nothing more than a very slight niggle in my knee. So for the first time in months, I actually feel confident about starting, and finishing the marathon

I took 2 gels, just to make sure I was still ok with them, as I hadn't had any since my injury. They went down fine. I also trialed my race day outfit. I was comfortable, and not too cold. Except my ears, which were freezing. So I'll bring a headband for race day. Once I stopped however, I got very cold very quickly.

I'm completely at a loss about what to do re pacing on the day. I was training for a sub 4 hour before I got injured. But what should I do now? Go with the 4.30 pacers and see how I feel? Forget about pacers and just run at a comfortable pace myself?

Wubble Wubble · 14-10-2016 05:40PM

That's great news G. For what it's worth, 4:30 would still be easy enough for you, especially if you're pain-free on the day. Just my two cents. There's also 4:10 and 4:20 pacers, if you're not up to 4 but reckon you're ahead of 4:30.

The Muppet · 14-10-2016 05:56PM

ToriV wrote: »

Singer wrote: »

They'll always be Opal Fruits to me, but each to their own.

Hahaha! I knew It wasn't right! But they are still great... Def taking a pack with me on the day!

Juicy fruits were chewing gum possibly still is.

scotindublin · 14-10-2016 06:04PM

Q&A with a couple of the pacers on the marathon Facebook page just now if anyone had any questions.

The potential for piggy backs has been asked already

The Black Oil · 14-10-2016 06:10PM

From the FB Q&A.

Banking time rarely works in my opinion.

Maximus Alexander · 14-10-2016 06:12PM

diego_b wrote: »

I have a 1:43(:43) half marathon and going for 4 hours and will do well to get it! The longer the distance, the less experienced the runner the more likely you are to try for a target that is too difficult and miss out. Some calculators tell me I can do 3:50 but I know I cannot do that yet, the pace required to do that unless perfect day/conditions and a super negative split...it ain't going to happen.

Tip for Goal Cs....forget about the time, just finish!

It just seems to me that if you've a 1:43 half you could go through half way in 1:50 without flogging yourself, then jog the rest and stop for a cup of tea and still come home under 4. But that's probably me being a hopelessly naive novice.

seanin4711 · 14-10-2016 06:20PM

5km at 4:45km pace yesterday and 35km 1hr25min on the bike this afternoon(love cross training).

long run sunday 13miler looking forward to it.

cant wait for DCM now.
ope your all fit and injury free!

diego_b · 14-10-2016 07:21PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It just seems to me that if you've a 1:43 half you could go through half way in 1:50 without flogging yourself, then jog the rest and stop for a cup of tea and still come home under 4. But that's probably me being a hopelessly naive novice.

Haha indeed, I take the hm time more as an indication of what I can do with some more marathon cycles but my endurance simply wouldn't be there yet. (This time last year I had a 1:50:34 hm and did a 4:12:54 marathon..first half 2:02/second half 2:10). This year I'll be camping with the 4 hour pacers till at least half way anyways.

Safrongirl · 14-10-2016 08:18PM

Run with a pacer or run your own race ??? Decisions Decisions ???
If I pick a time and then during the race get further and further behind it could just dent your confidence altogether and make for a very bad experience or will trying to stick with a group help you along and push you to stick with them ?
Have no idea and have never ran with a pacer before or a group so should I just stick with finishing and forget about a time ? At this stage I would like to make it home within 5 hours

nop98 · 14-10-2016 08:20PM

Arsenium wrote: »

Hi I've been lurking here for the last few months and enjoying everyones progress. But havent posted. But now, so close to the end I am getting concerned about pacing also.

So, running a few years now, 20:50 for 5K, 44 for 10K, 1:17 for 10miles, 1:46 for 1/2 are the PB's I think!!

I have been following a 4:00 hour plan and havent missed any long runs, albeit I have missed some mid week runs. I ran the DCHM as a training run and followed the 2:00 pacers (fantastic job by Marthastew!!) and came in at 1:58 or so. Followed MarthaStew again on Sunday in the 3/4 and came in at 3:08.

On both occasions I came to the end thinking I'm glad that's over.

So I am worried. Am I going to be able to sustain 9:08 pace for 26 miles. based on those runs. 4:00 is not a major issue with me, what I want to avoid is getting to 16 or 17 miles and feeling drained and struggling.

Is this just nerves? Or should I be more realistic and maybe drop down a wave and go with the 4:20 guys?

Sorry for coming into this thread so late and expecting answers :-)

Hey Arsenium - no problem joining the thread late, you got loads of answers, now all we want is a race report at the end of the day.

FWIW, I agree with the lads' assessment. 4h20 will be selling yourself short. I'd go with the 4h group and see how you get on. Don't be tempted to drift ahead too early, just stay with the group. Once you hit uncharted territory, it'll be up to you to bring it home. The difference with the HM and 3/4 is that this time, you can empty the tank like nothing before.

I like the fact that you are not hung-up on a specific time goal - everybody, take note - that's the most important part of setting goals: be prepared to ditch them if circumstances demand. Good luck!

nop98 · 14-10-2016 08:24PM

diego_b wrote: »

I have a 1:43(:43) half marathon and going for 4 hours and will do well to get it! The longer the distance, the less experienced the runner the more likely you are to try for a target that is too difficult and miss out. Some calculators tell me I can do 3:50 but I know I cannot do that yet, the pace required to do that unless perfect day/conditions and a super negative split...it ain't going to happen.

Tip for Goal Cs....forget about the time, just finish!

Thanks for the sound advice, diego. Even with this being your second marathon, and all your mileage over the past year, there are no guarantees on the day itself. Good luck with your sub-4 attempt, you have a genuinely good chance, and I really hope you nail it this year!

nop98 · 14-10-2016 08:27PM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Physio visit done and dusted.

Just before I turned the corner to the building, I heard a soft "plop" somewhere above. Was it what I thought it was? Sure enough, on removing my Dublin Marathon Race Series 2016 woolly hat, I discovered that a bird had dropped off its shopping on my head. Good job I wore the hat. Not a promising start!

Anyway, long story short, hip flexors and hamstring are very tight, so they got a good workout and feel much better now. Physio is going to email me a list of stretches and whatnot. He advised that (1) I should stretch more, especially after all the hard training (not to mention soon to be running 26.2 miles!) and (2) that the ITB may not (my emphasis) be 100% right on race day. But that's a lot better than I was thinking!

Ehm,

I was delighted the soft "plop" turned out to be birdsh!te and not your hamstring/ITB/other essential muscle or tendon tearing off. I think I might be suffering some tapering madness on all your behalf.

Good news - do your stretches, and as discussed, feel free to ditch an easy run or two. You have countless miles in the legs so a day off will probably be more beneficial than running easy.

nop98 · 14-10-2016 08:36PM

aceygray wrote: »

Did my 14 mile LSR yesterday, and it went well. It was still fairly tough, and I had to take one short walk break, but I got around it. I had nothing more than a very slight niggle in my knee. So for the first time in months, I actually feel confident about starting, and finishing the marathon

I took 2 gels, just to make sure I was still ok with them, as I hadn't had any since my injury. They went down fine. I also trialed my race day outfit. I was comfortable, and not too cold. Except my ears, which were freezing. So I'll bring a headband for race day. Once I stopped however, I got very cold very quickly.

I'm completely at a loss about what to do re pacing on the day. I was training for a sub 4 hour before I got injured. But what should I do now? Go with the 4.30 pacers and see how I feel? Forget about pacers and just run at a comfortable pace myself?

Delighted to hear that, AG. Thumbs up all around for the dress rehearsal.

What's your mileage going to be over the coming fortnight?

As for target, I'd aim for something around 4h20. That's 9:55 min/mi [6:09 min/km] which should be very comfortable for you. You really need to avoid at all costs going out too fast, since the lack of mileage over the past few weeks will definitely catch-up with you. Even at this pace, all bets are off for the last 6-8M - but you give yourself a decent chance.

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

That's great news G. For what it's worth, 4:30 would still be easy enough for you, especially if you're pain-free on the day. Just my two cents. There's also 4:10 and 4:20 pacers, if you're not up to 4 but reckon you're ahead of 4:30.

+1

MiketheMechanic · 14-10-2016 08:45PM

With those times, you will be well able for a 4 hour marathon!
Go for it - don't worry about a few missed easy runs.
Enjoy the taper and focus on the positive mental image of crossing that finishing line on Oct 30th with the clock reading 3.5x.xx :-)

MtM

Arsenium wrote: »

Hi I've been lurking here for the last few months and enjoying everyones progress. But havent posted. But now, so close to the end I am getting concerned about pacing also.

So, running a few years now, 20:50 for 5K, 44 for 10K, 1:17 for 10miles, 1:46 for 1/2 are the PB's I think!!

I have been following a 4:00 hour plan and havent missed any long runs, albeit I have missed some mid week runs. I ran the DCHM as a training run and followed the 2:00 pacers (fantastic job by Marthastew!!) and came in at 1:58 or so. Followed MarthaStew again on Sunday in the 3/4 and came in at 3:08.

On both occasions I came to the end thinking I'm glad that's over.

So I am worried. Am I going to be able to sustain 9:08 pace for 26 miles. based on those runs. 4:00 is not a major issue with me, what I want to avoid is getting to 16 or 17 miles and feeling drained and struggling.

Is this just nerves? Or should I be more realistic and maybe drop down a wave and go with the 4:20 guys?

Sorry for coming into this thread so late and expecting answers :-)

nop98 · 14-10-2016 08:47PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

Run with a pacer or run your own race ??? Decisions Decisions ???
If I pick a time and then during the race get further and further behind it could just dent your confidence altogether and make for a very bad experience or will trying to stick with a group help you along and push you to stick with them ?
Have no idea and have never ran with a pacer before or a group so should I just stick with finishing and forget about a time ? At this stage I would like to make it home within 5 hours

How fast/slow did you run during your long long runs, SFG? What does [HM PB * 2] + 20 minute equate to for you?

And yes, don't do this. Your ideal target time ("A" goal) needs to be achievable and conservative - and you need to set yourself 2 or 3 targets for the day (there's a longer post on this a good while back - but I'll repeat it all next week) - so that you avoid feeling deflated but instead aim for your "B" goal instead.

As for pacers, you don't need to run with them, especially not at the start, as you will literary be in a river of other runners, meandering through the streets of Dublin. However, when you get further in the race, a pace group becomes really beneficial, as they maintain steady pace (so you don't have to worry about it), there's great camaraderie in the group, the pacers are *always* :rolleyes: great fun, and there are less runners around in general (still, you'll never be far from anyone else). It is also noticeably easier to run in a group than on your own.

My advice would be to think hard about a realistic target, e.g. 4h50, and line up with those balloons. Let me know what you think.

The Muppet · 15-10-2016 05:43AM

The best if luck to all on the final lsr of the various plans . We're nearly there now .

scotindublin · 15-10-2016 05:55AM

The final double digit run of the training plan...nice and easy over the weekend everyone....look after yourselves.

Looks like a wet run this morning.....where's that surgical tape!

PauloMN · 15-10-2016 07:27AM

About to head out in the pouring rain for 12 miles. No running too fast today..... I promise Nop!!

doozerydoo · 15-10-2016 07:55AM

I have to give my 14 mile run a miss today as I pulled or strained a muscle in my back the other night. I think it was from just hitting a hockey ball around for a few minutes. Ironically I actually stopped playing hockey when I started training for the marathon until I've it ran, in case I get injured! I think my 5 mile run on Thursday may have made it worse so I'm doing the sensible thing today by not going for a run. It's killing me that I can't head out, would it be silly to do a long run on Monday or just leave it and continue with the plan?
I'm going for a sports massage this morning so hopefully that'll help my back and give my hard working legs a well deserved rub down.
Good luck to everyone doing their runs this morning, hopefully the rain will ease off soon.

nop98 · 15-10-2016 10:30AM

doozerydoo wrote: »

I have to give my 14 mile run a miss today as I pulled or strained a muscle in my back the other night. I think it was from just hitting a hockey ball around for a few minutes. Ironically I actually stopped playing hockey when I started training for the marathon until I've it ran, in case I get injured! I think my 5 mile run on Thursday may have made it worse so I'm doing the sensible thing today by not going for a run. It's killing me that I can't head out, would it be silly to do a long run on Monday or just leave it and continue with the plan?
I'm going for a sports massage this morning so hopefully that'll help my back and give my hard working legs a well deserved rub down.
Good luck to everyone doing their runs this morning, hopefully the rain will ease off soon.

Hey DD, I think going out on Monday is fine, provided your back feels alright and you're prepared to drop it at the slightest hint of trouble. Write-off an easy run next week instead to make space in the calender. Enjoy the rub-down, let us know how you get on!

The Black Oil · 15-10-2016 10:37AM

12 miles done. Soft rain to start with, heavy stuff from about 3.4 miles on. Very happy with the last 3 miles on the return, they felt wonderful. Don't feel as though I'm going to lose fitness. The hard work is done. Coldest lsr without a doubt. Couple of other people out, went past the same chap twice I said "see you in two weeks". :P Had to use two hands to turn the key in the front door because I was so cold.

Onwards with porridge and household chores.

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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