Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

nop98 · 11-10-2016 10:40PM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

How do you eat an elephant ! One bite at a time. Just take it one step at a time. If any consolation last year I cried after my 18 mile run had a horrible run. You just gotta chalk it up and move on. So hydrate well this week get to bed early stretch foam roll eat well and take it one step at a time don't focus on the distance map out a route and know where you're going don't focus on the watch it's an easy run this weekend so take your time you might surprise yourself.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

I wore the sleeves last year it was a bit chilly initially you can just pull them off and fling them at someone on the route worked well for me. I brought old track suit bottoms and top and bought a cheap hat and gloves in penneys and left them all at the start line kept me warm till the start. The clothes are collected by a charity afterwards so they don't go to waste.

Thank you Mrs Mc (and all other 2015 grads!) for all your contributions this year! It's great having fellow 2015 novices sharing all their insights.

nop98 · 11-10-2016 10:48PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

On the day I will wear my leggings and a vest - have ran in them all the time apart from when I was on holidays and ran in shorts then . Will bring a cheap hoodie from Pennys and leave at start line too.

I am raging with work as they have me in to work till 5pm on the Saturday of the Bank Holidays weekend - initially they had me of and then changed it - I explained I have to be up in Dublin to collect my number and all I got was well they are supporting me for the weekend by giving me the Sunday and Monday of - having a lot of issues at work lately and think this is just my pay back - have asked another girl for a swap which will leave me finishing at 2pm - will still be very tight by the time I get home and we get up to Dublin so I guess it will be straight to RDS at that stage !

My hotel is a 20 minute walk from Merrion square so should be grand for the actual morning - will leave it as late as possible to leave the toilet - sorry hotel !

Word has got around now that I am doing the marathon and now admitting it to everyone is making it very real .

Hey SFG - sorry about your work troubles. Please don't stress about the number-collection. If you really think you can't make it, I am planning to visit the Expo sometime over the weekend and can collect your stuff for you. I don't know how that can be arranged but think about it and we'll figure it out. No point spending nervous energy on that - we can work something out!

As for the morning itself, if you're leaving it late, that's fine but you won't have time for the bag-drop. It sounds like you might not need that facility, but just be aware that the queues for that are typically long.

nop98 · 11-10-2016 10:52PM

A Neurotic wrote: »

RIGHT, I've been thoroughly and officially medically cleared to carry on training.

How best to proceed, considering that I held off on my 20m LSR on Saturday? Keen to get it done ASAP (i.e. tomorrow), but wondering how best to fit the rest of the plan around that.

Any advice?

Firedance wrote: »

Have you done any of the shorter runs from the plan last week (or since the 14 miler?) if you only missed the 20 miler but did the shorter runs then you could do 20 miles tomorrow - if you missed all of the runs since the 14 miles we'd probably need to rethink things and see how best to proceed from here. Great that you've been given the all clear.

Great to hear you've been cleared to run, A Neurotic! I seem to recall you were getting through HHN1 reasonably comfortable and only missed running from last weekend on - in fact I recommended you doing the last 4M at PMP. So I would just jump straight into the 20-miler tomorrow (all LSR pace, mind), followed by 3M rec on Thursday, Friday off, 5M easy on Sunday, and your LSR (12M IIRC) on Sunday. Then back to plan and not worrying about the missed miles. Something along those lines? Great to have you back!

seanin4711 · 12-10-2016 05:27AM

Damn you man flu! Damn you to hell

jameshayes · 12-10-2016 06:16AM

seanin4711 wrote: »

Damn you man flu! Damn you to hell

Better now than in 2 weeks!

joesoap5 · 12-10-2016 06:35AM

Just wondering how would people compare 3/4 marathon course with DCM - effort wise

Also wondering if they provide fruit on the DCM course?

Last time I did it is had my own supply but hoping not to bring anything if I do it this time.

budhistmonk · 12-10-2016 06:53AM

A Neurotic wrote: »

I'm on the HHN1 plan, so my last LSR was 14 miles the weekend before last.

Thanks, would you have a link for this by any chance?

HI AN,
I don't have the exact link kabuxa mentions but the one I used sounds like a very similar loop. It's runs along Conyngham Road to Chapilizod without going into the park and follows most of the DCM route and loops back. I started up on Fosters ave but since its a loop it should work for you to start near the park. It was slightly over 20 miles (20.2). Haven't done it in the dark but think it is street lit the whole way. Here's a link incase it suits:

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6969658

Murph_D · 12-10-2016 08:11AM

joesoap5 wrote: »

Just wondering how would people compare 3/4 marathon course with DCM - effort wise

Also wondering if they provide fruit on the DCM course?

Last time I did it is had my own supply but hoping not to bring anything if I do it this time.

No fruit in Dublin. Not till after the race at least.

Singer · 12-10-2016 08:25AM

joesoap5 wrote: »

Just wondering how would people compare 3/4 marathon course with DCM - effort wise

Even though the total climb was 3/4 of Dublin, I think Dublin's hills are worse and take more effort. The long climb from the quays up to Castleknock, the short sharp hills up into Inchicore and the world-famous near-vertical climb on Roebuck (mild exaggeration

) are worse than anything on the 3/4... maybe aside from that last bridge over the canal. However the rest of the Dublin course is a bit easier.

Neady83 · 12-10-2016 08:48AM

joesoap5 wrote: »

Also wondering if they provide fruit on the DCM course?

Last time I did it is had my own supply but hoping not to bring anything if I do it this time.

Hi joesoap,

There's no fruit provided on the route, only water, lucozade sport and high 5 gels. However, one of my predominant memories from last year was the amount of goodies that supporters lining the route were offering. There were little brown bags of jelly beans (so your hands didn't get sticky - how thoughtful), jelly babies, pieces of fruit, jaffa cakes and there always seemed to be a guy beside me on a bicycle offering me gels. I'm sure it will be the same again this year BUT don't count on them - the only fuel you can be certain of are the water, lucozade and high 5 gels. I'm sure Nop has been through it with you guys before but don't try anything new on the day of the marathon, if you haven't practiced with jelly beans or lucozade sport, don't try them out on the day.

Download the Dublin Marathon Route Map at the following link [URL] http://sseairtricitydublinmarathon.ie/coursestart-finish/ [/URL] and familiarise yourself with where the aid stations will be ...

Water: Mile 3, 5, 7, 9.5, 13, 16, 19, 21, 24
Lucozade Sport: Mile 9.5, 13, 19, 22
High 5 gels: 16, 21

Firedance · 12-10-2016 08:53AM

Murph_D wrote: »

No fruit in Dublin. Not till after the race at least.

There might be people standing on the course with specially cut up bags of strawberries and oranges but you could easily miss them.....Isn't that right nop

:D #dontmentionthewar

Murph_D · 12-10-2016 09:28AM

I deliberately didn't mention the spectator fruit. DCM spectators are wonderful and will offer you all sorts of goodies - great if you're just getting around but if you are targeting a time you won't want the distraction of wondering where you're going to pick this stuff up exactly. And what's in it! (There's that guy in Inchicore who always has the barbecue going if you're feeling a little peckish early on).

Extrasupervery · 12-10-2016 09:30AM

Safrongirl if you're stuck and can't get to the expo I can collect your number and drop it into the reception of whatever hotel you're staying at. Don't panic over those details, you have plenty of support here.

Did my LSR on Sunday and my legs are still knackered today.

paddydriver · 12-10-2016 10:04AM

Firedance wrote: »

There might be people standing on the course with specially cut up bags of strawberries and oranges but you could easily miss them.....Isn't that right nop :D #dontmentionthewar

Laced with EPO.. :eek:

Firedance · 12-10-2016 10:07AM

paddydriver wrote: »

Laced with EPO.. :eek:

Ah here!! what do you take me for

this year I'm sticking to Jaffa cakes and jelly babies

.

Fbjm · 12-10-2016 10:22AM

Sunday was to be my 32km run. I only managed 28 and was bollixed after! It's Wednesday now and my knees and quads are STILL sore. I'm ****ing terrified for the 30th but if anything I'm even more determined than ever. Who's looking forward to the expo? It should be fantastic, decent craic. I'm terrified and excited. I might just have a heart attack at the countdown on the day. Getting closer lads.

kittyclaws · 12-10-2016 10:39AM

Fbjm wrote: »

Sunday was to be my 32km run. I only managed 28 and was bollixed after! It's Wednesday now and my knees and quads are STILL sore. I'm ****ing terrified for the 30th but if anything I'm even more determined than ever. Who's looking forward to the expo? It should be fantastic, decent craic. I'm terrified and excited. I might just have a heart attack at the countdown on the day. Getting closer lads.

17 days :eek::eek::eek:

I'm really looking forward to the expo, I've taken Friday off work so I can go in and treat myself to something nice

I suspect there will be tears of terror when I'm handed my number!

andrew1977 · 12-10-2016 10:40AM

Best meals and food to eat for the next 2 weeks in advance of the big day ?

I try eat healthy with plenty of veg, but any experienced people on here recommend what to munch on for the next 2 weeks ? All help appreciated.

This Fat Girl Runs · 12-10-2016 10:55AM

Hey guys! I've been so impressed with you all over the last few months. I know I haven't said much but there's nothing I could say that hasn't already been said. You've got a great support crew here! Taper time is pretty tough but make the most of it. Like someone else said go do the things you've had to put off doing (but watch your step when you're out and about!). Enjoy the rest and remember it's GOOD for you! You're not losing fitness, you're repairing muscle and replenishing your energy stores. You won't forget how to run, I promise!

I will be volunteering at the Expo on the Saturday so if you're going then, please find me and say hi!

On the day itself I'll be out cheering with my balloons so you'll easily spot me. I plan on being on Patrick Street at the start, then I'll move to the half way point and then (after the 4:30 pacers pass) I'll head to mile 25 to cheer you home.

I'm debating between signs, not sure if I want to go with last year's 'Hate to see you leave...' or a new '1st High Five is free' (joke being you'll see me three times on the course). Either way, there will be balloons! With polka dots!

If anyone wants me to stock up on fruit, gels etc for the halfway point I can do so but be aware a handover will only work if you stop for a second or two so if you're targeting a time, best not! PM if you want to arrange a handover.

And of course, I'll see you in McGrattans afterwards!*

I'm really excited for you all and can't wait to roar at you like a mad thing! You've done brilliant with the training and you'll do brilliantly on the course. Soak up the experience, remember as much as you can. Put your name on your shirt - getting a personal cheer makes a world of difference! Above all else, above the time targets and the pace bands and the expectations, just enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!!

*There may be flapjacks. Just sayin'

FBOT01 · 12-10-2016 12:40PM

andrew1977 wrote: »

Best meals and food to eat for the next 2 weeks in advance of the big day ?

I try eat healthy with plenty of veg, but any experienced people on here recommend what to munch on for the next 2 weeks ? All help appreciated.

Keep it pretty simple. No need to do anything OTT. If you eat healthily already then keep that up. In the last few days increase the carbs a little and ensure you are well hydrated but not to the extent that you end up feeling bloated and slug like by Saturday afternoon. Scones or bagels with real butter and jam are my snack of choice in the run up. I also keep the food pretty plain in the last few days.

andrew1977 · 12-10-2016 01:25PM

FBOT01 wrote: »

Keep it pretty simple. No need to do anything OTT. If you eat healthily already then keep that up. In the last few days increase the carbs a little and ensure you are well hydrated but not to the extent that you end up feeling bloated and slug like by Saturday afternoon. Scones or bagels with real butter and jam are my snack of choice in the run up. I also keep the food pretty plain in the last few days.

What would you recommend carbs wise/dinner/snacks in the 3 days or so before it ? Keep tucking into the chicken and veg /pasta ?
Thanks for the reply and your help.

FortuneChip · 12-10-2016 03:05PM

FortuneChip wrote: »

New to this - my running life has never been overly structured. Figured I'd throw my story out there.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I've done 5 10km races in the last 18 months, and one half marathon in April.
-10km (Phoenix Park Pink Run) - 52.54
-Half marathon (Connemarathon), 1:51.27, April 2016 - Really tough one. Conditions were tough, and it was my first half.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
Seldom, but they have happened.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Started running last year, completed three 10km runs, all sub 55mins.
This year I ramped it up a bit, I'd run between 14km & 16km once a week from start of March up until the half in April. Things like Stags, Weddings, Birthdays and of course work meant I didn't get out as much as I could have.
Only started running again after my 1/2 last week. I'm active enough, would walk 11km a day (to/from work)

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I want to finish it. Simple.
That said, having done (what I've been told) a tough half marathon like Connemara in 1h51, a part of my wants to believe I could go sub 4. Honestly, it's just a milestone I've plucked out. Once training gets fully underway again I'll re-evaluate this!

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Initial plan is to get two mid distance (15km) runs a week in.
Honestly, I'm aware stubbornness and a decent pair of legs got me through my first 10kms and the half - so I'm new to "plans".

Why are you running this marathon?
Personal achievement.
The Marathon wasn't on my road map until after I ran the half. I started thinking, I'm 30 now, I've already "begun" training, whether I knew it or not - so this is probably the best opportunity I'll have to take it on.

So, interesting few months.
I've since run the Rock'n'Roll half (having neglecting training almost completely) - fell across in about 2h3m
It was a sharp wake-up call.

Between then & the DCHM I started getting two/three runs in a week.
One 10-13miler, and a couple of 4m during lunch breaks (oh, and I changed to miles - don't know why)

Pacing started to get a lot more controlled without staring at my watch which is one thing I'm really happy with.
The Dublin Half was going well, but I finally had my first "injury" trouble during the DCHM. Knee started to act up about mile 10, but I carried on and got home in 2hrs. It was in agony that night despite icing.

I took it quite easy for the next two weeks, furthest run was ~8 miles, but was still doing one 4miler once a week as well.
Confidence was a little shot though as my knee was still causing some discomfort.

Then, Sunday. Took on the 3/4 Marathon and really don't think it could have gone better for me.
I started with the 4 hour marathon pacers, but once the route opened out at about mile 7 I felt confident enough to move past them (just felt the a little congested).
When I got to mile 13 without incident it was a new confidence boost as I started telling myself "This is the furthest you've ever run, and you're not hurting!"
When I got to the final 3 or 4 miles I started to feel even more confident and increased my pace again. Miles 18 & 19 ended up being the fastest of the day and it was reflected in my splits as well
My 3 splits were 1:02.01, 58:55 & 58:26.

I've been out once since (my usual 4 miler), but I'm penned in for 10 miles on Friday and maybe 8 miles on Sunday.
Also booked a few days off work after the marathon to recover/celebrate.

TFBubendorfer · 12-10-2016 03:13PM

andrew1977 wrote: »

Best meals and food to eat for the next 2 weeks in advance of the big day ?

I try eat healthy with plenty of veg, but any experienced people on here recommend what to munch on for the next 2 weeks ? All help appreciated.

DON'T TRY ANYTHING NEW at this point!!

If you are already eating healthy with plenty of veg then keep doing exactly that. There is no magic food that will magically make you run faster and eating healthily is the best option.

kabuxa · 12-10-2016 05:13PM

Safrongirl wrote:

I am raging with work as they have me in to work till 5pm on the Saturday of the Bank Holidays weekend - initially they had me of and then changed it - I explained I have to be up in Dublin to collect my number and all I got was well they are supporting me for the weekend by giving me the Sunday and Monday of - having a lot of issues at work lately and think this is just my pay back - have asked another girl for a swap which will leave me finishing at 2pm - will still be very tight by the time I get home and we get up to Dublin so I guess it will be straight to RDS at that stage !

Hi Safrongirl.... I will be going to expo on Friday, if you tell me where you are staying I can drop it there. I don't live near there so I don't mind taking a detour. Pls let me know and no need to rush. We dont need 'unneccesary stress' You have plenty of time to think about it.

Wubble Wubble · 12-10-2016 06:17PM

Mon 10/10 - Rest

Tue 11/10 - 5 miles approx. @9:32 p/m

This was another lunch special "Only Available On Tuesdays. Must End October!" If we didn't have showers in work, I'd never do lunchtime runs.

Similar to last week, I trotted along the quays from the job, up Parkgate Street and along Chesterfield Avenue to the Phoenix roundabout, before turning around and going back. I wasn't really in the humour at all until I got into the Park. I kept it fairly steady to the Phoenix, before picking up the pace on the way back. Probably a bit too much actually; I was 2 minutes quicker coming back in. Even allowing for being stopped at lights and whatnot, that's a lot for 2.5ish miles. ITB a bit niggly coming back, but ok afterwards.

Wed 12/10 - 5 miles @9:01 p/m

Back in Porterstown on a sunny evening, but windy on the way back up towards the car park. The original plan was to keep it somewhere close to 9 minute miles for the four laps of the park. In spite of there being a lot of walkers, dogs, kids on bikes, and even one or two other runners, I did reasonably well overall. 8:53, 8:57 and 8:49, until I decided to pick it up for the last one and throw in a roughly PMP 8:15. You could say there was a bit of a sting in the tail.

I was a bit annoyed going home, but like beforehand I got plenty of stretches done when I got in the door, and everything feels fine now. However, I'm leaning more towards massage territory following this and yesterday's run.

nop98 · 12-10-2016 06:49PM

joesoap5 wrote: »

.... Also wondering if they provide fruit on the DCM course?

Last time I did it is had my own supply but hoping not to bring anything if I do it this time.

Neady83 wrote: »

Hi joesoap,

There's no fruit provided on the route, only water, lucozade sport and high 5 gels. However, one of my predominant memories from last year was the amount of goodies that supporters lining the route were offering. There were little brown bags of jelly beans (so your hands didn't get sticky - how thoughtful), jelly babies, pieces of fruit, jaffa cakes and there always seemed to be a guy beside me on a bicycle offering me gels. I'm sure it will be the same again this year BUT don't count on them - the only fuel you can be certain of are the water, lucozade and high 5 gels. I'm sure Nop has been through it with you guys before but don't try anything new on the day of the marathon, if you haven't practiced with jelly beans or lucozade sport, don't try them out on the day.

Download the Dublin Marathon Route Map at the following link [URL] http://sseairtricitydublinmarathon.ie/coursestart-finish/ [/URL] and familiarise yourself with where the aid stations will be ...

Water: Mile 3, 5, 7, 9.5, 13, 16, 19, 21, 24
Lucozade Sport: Mile 9.5, 13, 19, 22
High 5 gels: 16, 21

Firedance wrote: »

There might be people standing on the course with specially cut up bags of strawberries and oranges but you could easily miss them.....Isn't that right nop :D #dontmentionthewar

Good discussion - thanks for bringing it up. :cool:

By now, I expect all of you have figured out what you need on your very long runs. Gels, jelly beans, water, Lucozade, whatever works for you. Since you will be running at least 6M further than ever before, you need to take your extra fueling needs into account. The problem is, how do you get it around on the day itself?

There are plenty of water-stations on the day itself. They are usually well stocked and well staffed. If you want to depend on them, you should be okay, but be beware that they can get extremely busy, especially if you run in one of the larger pace-groups (e.g. 3h30, 4h00, 4h30). You will likely loose a little bit of time and momentum, but then again, its perfectly fine to take a short walking break to ensure you properly hydrate and take a gel or something like that.

As Neady mentions, there are also Lucozade stations, and you can pick-up gels along the course. These come in less frequency so you really need to be alert if you plan to use some of these stations. Don't underestimate that it will be harder to concentrate later on in the course, so you can well run straight by them without noticing (not likely though). Also, if you haven't ran before with these type of gels and Lucozade, the usual warning applies..

Many runners wear various back-packs, gel-belts, water-bottles etc with them for the entire course. Dubgal last year used the description "cargo-shorts". Again, this is perfectly fine as long as you have practiced with this. I wouldn't want you to run your first marathon with a new gadget, e.g. a bottle-belt or whatever, only realizing after 500m that it annoys you too much and that you need to dump it, and then spend energy worrying about where you'll get your nutrition from. :eek: Do what you have been doing on your long runs.

Then, there is indeed plenty of stuff on offer from random, well-meaning strangers, again, I'd be a little apprehensive as you don't know what you'll be taking in, but for some water or an orange slice, you're probably okay.

You can consider having friends, family, kids, better halves, somewhere in the crowd and carry some stuff for you. Once this works out, this is probably the best and easiest way to get your snacks. However, don't underestimate how hard it is to pick them out in the crowds. There will be thousands and thousands of spectators, and your friends will be seeing thousands of runners stream by. You can easily miss them and they can miss you. Firedance was waiting at quite a specific point last year, I was looking out for her, she was looking out for me (she says :rolleyes:) but I missed her

. In order to make it work you need to:

Agree on a very specific point along the course (e.g. at a specific mile-marker, bus-stop, corner, in front of a building).
Agree on the side of the road the supporter will be from the runners point of view
Do the maths to predict, roughly, what time you will be there. E.g. "not before the 4h10 pace-group but hopefully before the 4h30s".
Describe what you will be wearing - e.g. I'll be the one in the orange t-shirt.
Be very specific what you want them to carry, better yet, get it yourself and give it to your crew beforehand. E.g. a little plastic zip-lock bag with a gel, a small bottle of water/sports-drink and a few jellies is just about perfect.

Obviously, a combination of the above will work too. Have you thought about your in-flight fueling plan? Let us know what you're thinking.

bucketybuck · 12-10-2016 07:06PM

nop98 wrote: »

You can consider having friends, family, kids, better halves, somewhere in the crowd

Part of me wonders what the etiquette for friends in the crowd is?

Since they will have taken the time out to travel and come to cheer me on do I stop and have a chat? Is it rude to just wave and continue jogging on? Take 15 minutes and join them for a pint?

Extrasupervery · 12-10-2016 07:06PM

For in-flight fuel I'm going to be relying on my flip belt. I've run my long runs with gels and jelly babies stored in it and this has worked well coupled with water along the way. I'll probably go through 3 or 4 gels which is pretty sickening but I'll be out for 5+ hours and will need the fuel. I've had a few offers from kind friends to meet me on the course with bits and pieces and if it works it works but I won't rely on them.

I didn't have any knee pain on my 4 mile run tonight, which I'm delighted with cause it was quite bad on LSR day. I'm pretty sure it'll appear again somewhere around the actual 26.2 miles though. Tonight a few new pain appeared - my right instep felt incredibly tight. My right foot was kinda stiff the last few days but on this run one particular muscle (or tendon or some ****) felt particularly tight to the point where I felt it might have 'snapped' if the run was longer. I'm gonna mind it and stretch it and hope for the best.

sgal · 12-10-2016 07:40PM

Opinions please, I had been following hhn1 plan but an issue with it band/glutes/quads ðŸ˜« meant that my physio reckoned I wouldn't make the main event without breaking down so in fairness he designed my own plan working around my shift pattern with the plan of getting me round on the day. The mileage is a lot less so I've been reading all the posts with a mixture of jealousy and increasing anxiety at my lack of running. I've stretched his plan a little bit extra eg 18 miles last week instead of the planned 17. I was hoping to push the 18 miles planned lsr this Thursday to 20 miles as the longest run before the marathon. However the 18 miles went great last week but three 5 mile runs since have tough on my weaker leg. Then asthma acted up went to gp who said I've a chest infection and no way should I run 20 miles this weekand . Because of marathon coming up he gave me strong antibiotics and steroids. And said to leave long run for at least 5 days. Emailed physio who said to get better first and take it from there. Sorry for long winded post but is it OK to run 20 miles maybe next Wednesday or is it too close as all posts I see seem to be about enjoying the taper! Haven't massive miles done 15, 17, 18 miles last tuesday have been long runs over last three weeks. Is it enoughðŸ˜£ðŸ€”!?

All or nothing · 12-10-2016 08:02PM

Just to give an update on how I'm getting on. I bought a new pair of runners on Sunday, Nike Zoom Pegasus. I wore them Monday for the first time. Really happy with them, very comfortable and very light but with enough cushioning. Should have around 60 miles in them come marathon day.

Went to my third (and hopefully last) physio appointment on Tuesday. It was a painful session, but very good. She did a lot of dry needling on both feet. She also did dry needling on my left knee as it has been slightly jarred lately. That seems to have loosened it out a bit. Hopefully the new runners won't cause me any trouble.

I've never been for a sports massage but I'm thinking of getting one before the marathon. When would be the best time to go between now and then. I was thinking maybe next week sometime? As I've never had one before I didn't want to go too close to the marathon.

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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