This has been bugging me for a while

54and56 · 10-10-2016 09:37AM

magentis wrote: »

Je suis adshel.

Are you????

shrapnel222 · 10-10-2016 10:41AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

So, this morning an Adshel van was parked in the bus lane of the Lower Kilmacud Road as the driver did something to the advertising panels on the bus shelter.

All over the city I've seen Adshel vans park in bus lanes, park on double yellow lines, park in cycle lanes and even park up on footpaths and not only does breaking the road traffic laws seem to be standard operating procedure for this business but they appear to do so with complete impunity, I have yet to see a Garda or Traffic warden issue them with a ticket.

They seem to think that by turning safety beacon/hazard lights on their vans it somehow makes them equivalent to the sort of public service or emergency service vehicles which are actually permitted to park where necessary and bus lanes etc.

Can anyone clarify if Adshel have some special permit or licence which absolves them from having to adhere to the road traffic laws the way all other businesses and individuals have to and if not why they are permitted to park wherever they want whenever they want including on a busy a busy commuter bus lane during rush hour?

do you work for Adshel, as your photo is about the same size as the ones they use on those advertising boards :pac:

54and56 · 10-10-2016 10:44AM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

do you work for Adshel, as your photo is about the same size as the ones they use on those advertising boards :pac:

Boom boom

No!!!!!

borderlinemeath · 10-10-2016 10:53AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Can anyone clarify if Adshel have some special permit or licence which absolves them from having to adhere to the road traffic laws the way all other businesses and individuals have to and if not why they are permitted to park wherever they want whenever they want including on a busy a busy commuter bus lane during rush hour?

What is your definition of busy? That bus lane looks like a lot of other bus lanes in the suburbs. Empty, until the one or two buses that run on it come along. If the adshel van was deliberately blocking a bus from freely moving then there would be an issue but the driver is there to move out of the way if a bus happened to come along. I reckon the bus has just gone as there's nobody waiting at the stop.

Gatling · 10-10-2016 10:57AM

Another thread about the same thing .

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057650703/1/#post101119093

nuac · 10-10-2016 11:16AM

post deleted

54and56 · 10-10-2016 11:17PM

borderlinemeath wrote: »

What is your definition of busy? That bus lane looks like a lot of other bus lanes in the suburbs. Empty, until the one or two buses that run on it come along. If the adshel van was deliberately blocking a bus from freely moving then there would be an issue but the driver is there to move out of the way if a bus happened to come along. I reckon the bus has just gone as there's nobody waiting at the stop.

If I'd have shot a video you'd have seen the Adshel van did block vehicles who are authorised to use the bus lane and had to merge into the general lane to pass the Adshel van.

The point I'm trying to figure out is why one private company seems to have a free pass when it comes to respecting the rules ref parking in bus lanes, cycle paths and footpaths whilst other companies doing the same thing but for a different reason get pulled. It just doesn't make any sense. Why can't they park legally like everyone else and walk a few meters to the bus shelter to swap a poster or whatever???

I wouldn't mind if they made a case for special dispensation and were given some sort of licence or permit to do what they're doing but as far as I know they are supposed to adhere to the road traffic laws the same as everyone else yet their standard operating procedure seems to be to break those laws all day every day and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

brian_t · 10-10-2016 11:49PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why can't they park legally like everyone else and walk a few meters to the bus shelter to swap a poster or whatever???

What happens if they need to replace broken glass.

I would imagine that the revenue generated by the ads on bus shelters goes some way to subsidising cost of the bus shelters.

Having the bus shelters encourages more people to use the buses.

So I would guess that adshel do have permission to park beside the bus shelters in order to service the shelters.

borderlinemeath · 10-10-2016 11:54PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

If I'd have shot a video you'd have seen the Adshel van did block vehicles who are authorised to use the bus lane and had to merge into the general lane to pass the Adshel van.

The point I'm trying to figure out is why one private company seems to have a free pass when it comes to respecting the rules ref parking in bus lanes, cycle paths and footpaths whilst other companies doing the same thing but for a different reason get pulled. It just doesn't make any sense. Why can't they park legally like everyone else and walk a few meters to the bus shelter to swap a poster or whatever???

And have half the stuff nicked out of the back of the van?

I wouldn't mind if they made a case for special dispensation and were given some sort of licence or permit to do what they're doing but as far as I know they are supposed to adhere to the road traffic laws the same as everyone else yet their standard operating procedure seems to be to break those laws all day every day and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

They service the bus shelters and billboards, changing posters, lightbulbs etc. They don't exactly up and leave the van and go for lunch. And you're right, it doesn't seem to be a problem. Because for the vast majority of people, it isn't a problem. It just seems to be getting up your nose for some reason.

54and56 · 11-10-2016 09:19AM

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And have half the stuff nicked out of the back of the van?

So your actually saying that if you have a van full of posters and tools it's ok to park on a bus lane? Does that apply equally to plumbers, carpenters, builders etc etc who might like to keep their vehicle parked in a bus lane so they can keep an eye on it whilst they go about their job? If not why not? Why are Adshel the only one's to whom this apparent dispensation applies?

borderlinemeath wrote: »

They service the bus shelters and billboards, changing posters, lightbulbs etc. They don't exactly up and leave the van and go for lunch. And you're right, it doesn't seem to be a problem. Because for the vast majority of people, it isn't a problem. It just seems to be getting up your nose for some reason.

The problem I have and the reason it gets up my nose (and IMO should get up the nose of all road users) is that the rule of law is supposed to be applied equally without fear or favour and not in a discriminatory fashion. I'd have no problem (as I already said) if DCC gave them a permit to park in bus lanes, cycle lanes and footpaths whilst they carried out their work but to my knowledge they haven't so why are they not treated the same way as plumbers, carpenters and builders etc?

I don't like institutionalised discrimination regardless of how minor or serious it is. Maybe you're ok with that but I'm not.

borderlinemeath · 11-10-2016 09:45AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

So your actually saying that if you have a van full of posters and tools it's ok to park on a bus lane? Does that apply equally to plumbers, carpenters, builders etc etc who might like to keep their vehicle parked in a bus lane so they can keep an eye on it whilst they go about their job? If not why not? Why are Adshel the only one's to whom this apparent dispensation applies?

Sigh.
An adshel employee probably has a set route of poster changes and maintenence on a bus shelter. Not a business or private house where they can avail of safe off street parking and knowing each shelter will take approx 5 minutes at most.

A tradesman won't have as quick a turnaround. Besides they will be on a contract to a business or a private home rather than maintaining a bus shelter and as such, will use the customers premises or home to park their vehicle.

The problem I have and the reason it gets up my nose (and IMO should get up the nose of all road users) is that the rule of law is supposed to be applied equally without fear or favour and not in a discriminatory fashion. I'd have no problem (as I already said) if DCC gave them a permit to park in bus lanes, cycle lanes and footpaths whilst they carried out their work but to my knowledge they haven't so why are they not treated the same way as plumbers, carpenters and builders etc?

I don't like institutionalised discrimination regardless of how minor or serious it is. Maybe you're ok with that but I'm not.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. They're trying to do their job maintaining a public service and you're getting your knickers in a twist over something that has little or no effect on you, sitting in your car getting antsy because you have to let a taxi cut in front of you only to go back into the bus lane and not get in your way at all.

I suspect also that if they were given a permit, as with all companies, there would be certain employees that would abuse it. So better off having them aware that they really shouldn't park in bus lanes but to ensure to make their service prompt otherwise they are in danger of getting a ticket or a fine.

shrapnel222 · 11-10-2016 10:38AM

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. They're trying to do their job maintaining a public service and you're getting your knickers in a twist over something that has little or no effect on you, sitting in your car getting antsy because you have to let a taxi cut in front of you only to go back into the bus lane and not get in your way at all.

I suspect also that if they were given a permit, as with all companies, there would be certain employees that would abuse it. So better off having them aware that they really shouldn't park in bus lanes but to ensure to make their service prompt otherwise they are in danger of getting a ticket or a fine.

it's not a public service, it's a very lucrative business.

borderlinemeath · 11-10-2016 10:47AM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

it's not a public service, it's a very lucrative business.

In the context of my post - the bus shelter is a service for the public. It is not a customer where you enter their premises to park your business vehicle.

Little CuChulainn · 11-10-2016 10:49AM

Your assumption is that others doing what adshel is doing would not be treated the same by Gardaí. But if you were to get a job washing the bus shelters or repairing the glass in them you would be treated the same. The rule of law is to be applied equally but Gardaí have a power of discretion to let some things pass and this discretion is also applied equally.

54and56 · 11-10-2016 11:22AM

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Sigh.

Really?

borderlinemeath wrote: »

An adshel employee probably has a set route of poster changes and maintenence on a bus shelter.

No doubt about it. My issue isn't with the employee doing his/her best to meet their daily route targets it's with the business who set a route based on illegal parking rather than legal parking. If Adshel had to obey the law they would have to plan routes accordingly which might mean getting 10 jobs a day (mix of poster replacements and maintenance) done instead of (for example) 20.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

knowing each shelter will take approx 5 minutes at most.

Maybe for a poster change but not to replace a broken pane of glass or whatever.

A major element of this is safety. Parking on bus lanes, cycle paths and footpaths puts other more vulnerable road users at risk. This was amply demonstrated to me this morning when I saw a van (not Adshel) parked on a cycle lane blocking my view of traffic coming and making an exit from the road I was on more difficult/dangerous.

Are you saying the trade off between safety for others and convenience for Adshel is justified? It takes seconds for a situation which should otherwise be safe to become an accident so even if they only park for 5 minutes as you suggest that's a multiple of the time it take for an accident to occur.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

They're trying to do their job maintaining a public service

Since when was putting up advertising posters a public service?

borderlinemeath wrote: »

you're getting your knickers in a twist over something that has little or no effect on you, sitting in your car getting antsy because you have to let a taxi cut in front of you only to go back into the bus lane and not get in your way at all.

Not at all actually. The issue for me is about the equal application of the law for all. If they deserve to park in bus lanes, cycle paths and footpaths why don't DCC just give them a permit to do so? I'd have no complaints with that at all but I suspect the reason it hasn't happened is that no council could justify the trade off between public safety and some convenience for a private company which allows them to lower cost i.e. more jobs done per day = less requirement for staff/vans etc.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

they really shouldn't park in bus lanes

Glad to hear it.

54and56 · 11-10-2016 11:27AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Your assumption is that others doing what adshel is doing would not be treated the same by Gardaí. But if you were to get a job washing the bus shelters or repairing the glass in them you would be treated the same. The rule of law is to be applied equally but Gardaí have a power of discretion to let some things pass and this discretion is also applied equally.

I'm sure there's some merit to this a la emergency vehicles etc being permitted to stop where they need to etc but just because it's a bus shelter doesn't mean it's ok to put the safety of other road users at risk or discommode other road users in order to provide some minor convenience to the service provider. In the example I posted there is legal safe parking less than 150M away. Would parking there really be too much to ask?

Also, would/should discretion apply if all they were doing was replacing advertising posters? What has that got to do with public service?

borderlinemeath · 11-10-2016 12:18PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Really?

No doubt about it. My issue isn't with the employee doing his/her best to meet their daily route targets it's with the business who set a route based on illegal parking rather than legal parking. If Adshel had to obey the law they would have to plan routes accordingly which might mean getting 10 jobs a day (mix of poster replacements and maintenance) done instead of (for example) 20.

Maybe for a poster change but not to replace a broken pane of glass or whatever.

A major element of this is safety. Parking on bus lanes, cycle paths and footpaths puts other more vulnerable road users at risk. This was amply demonstrated to me this morning when I saw a van (not Adshel) parked on a cycle lane blocking my view of traffic coming and making an exit from the road I was on more difficult/dangerous.

Sigh, again.

So your vision was impaired by somebody parked illegally in a cycle lane. Not Adshel working at a bus stop.

Are you saying the trade off between safety for others and convenience for Adshel is justified? It takes seconds for a situation which should otherwise be safe to become an accident so even if they only park for 5 minutes as you suggest that's a multiple of the time it take for an accident to occur.

I don't see anything unsafe with your photo. Slightly inconvenient to cycle around or drive around but the van is well lit, on a straight and not blocking pedestrians or an upcoming junction. Bus stops tend to be in safe enough places like that you see. Some of them even have dedicated pull ins for the bus so others can overtake safely.

Since when was putting up advertising posters a public service?

See my previous post. It's a service in a public place, not a business or private home where they use their parking.

Not at all actually. The issue for me is about the equal application of the law for all. If they deserve to park in bus lanes, cycle paths and footpaths why don't DCC just give them a permit to do so? I'd have no complaints with that at all but I suspect the reason it hasn't happened is that no council could justify the trade off between public safety and some convenience for a private company which allows them to lower cost i.e. more jobs done per day = less requirement for staff/vans etc.

Glad to hear it.

As I already stated they would probably have employees that would abuse it. Plus they aren't an emergency service.

54and56 · 11-10-2016 12:40PM

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Sigh, again.

Good on ya. Take deep breaths, it'll help apparently.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

So your vision was impaired by somebody parked illegally in a cycle lane. Not Adshel working at a bus stop.

Correct and the point I was making is that someone exiting a road down from the parked Adshel van would be visually impaired in the same way. Safety outweighs minor convenience in my book.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I don't see anything unsafe with your photo. Slightly inconvenient to cycle around or drive around but the van is well lit, on a straight and not blocking pedestrians or an upcoming junction.

150m down the road past the parked Adshel van is a housing estate. People exiting that estate were having their view of the road blocked by the Adshel van. Also, by parking in the bus lane the Adshel van was forcing cyclists using the bus lane into the main vehicle lane in order to get around the Adshel van. Maybe not a problem for you (or me as I don't cycle to work) but I have two family members who do and I'd put their safety ahead of Adshels convenience.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Plus they aren't an emergency service.

No they're not. They are a private company who should adhere to the road traffic laws the same as all other private companies. If they need or deserve a permit to park in bus lanes, cycle paths and footpaths in order to do their business they should apply for and be granted a permit to do so but they haven't and I wonder why?

Esel · 11-10-2016 10:37PM

A cyclist would not have to change lanes to pass that van.

You say that such parking is dangerous, yet if they had a permit it would be OK???

punisher5112 · 11-10-2016 10:53PM

I have absolutely no problem with adshell doing their job as they need the van for all their equipment.

Dangerous parking or blocking foot paths is a problem.

Bus lane doesn't usually cause hassle and to be honest they don't be there long but in saying that another issue on safety side is while they are working on a shelter especially ones facing into the road the van can act as a buffer or safety zone(block).

54and56 · 11-10-2016 11:13PM

Esel wrote: »

You say that such parking is dangerous, yet if they had a permit it would be OK???

My opinion is that it's dangerous as is their habit of parking on paths and cycle lanes but if DCC were to assess the situation and grant them a permit I wouldn't object as at least then their operating procedure would have been properly risk assessed and a decision made by competent professionals.

Allinall · 12-10-2016 08:03AM

The place doesn't go into meltdown when a bus stops there, so I fail to see how a van parked temporarily is any different.

borderlinemeath · 12-10-2016 08:28AM

Allinall wrote: »

The place doesn't go into meltdown when a bus stops there, so I fail to see how a van parked temporarily is any different.

+1

And a bus is a far bigger obstacle, visually and physically, for cyclists to navigate, a far greater threat to their safety.

54and56 · 12-10-2016 03:36PM

Allinall wrote: »

The place doesn't go into meltdown when a bus stops there, so I fail to see how a van parked temporarily is any different.

The answer is cryptically contained in your post.

1. A bus stops for a few seconds to let passangers on/off. They don't park there.

2. A bus is a public service vehicle using .........wait for it..............a bus lane which is why bus lanes were put in place. It's not a Adshel parking bay lane is it?

Also, if your logic is followed to it's conclusion and applied equally to all anyone doing some business near a bus lane should be free to park in it for 5 minutes or so whenever they wish. True/False?

(Please don't say Adhsel are doing a public service putting up advertising posters!! Last thime I checked they weren't listed here https://www.lobbying.ie/help-resources/information-for-public-bodies/list-of-public-service-bodies/)

brian_t · 12-10-2016 05:47PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

2. A bus is a public service vehicle using .........wait for it..............a bus lane which is why bus lanes were put in place. It's not a Adshel parking bay lane is it?

Also, if your logic is followed to it's conclusion and applied equally to all anyone doing some business near a bus lane should be free to park in it for 5 minutes or so whenever they wish. True/False?

According to Indymedia

The bus shelters located throughout Dublin are not owned by Dublin Bus, or even Dublin Corporation, but are instead under the control of the Adshel company.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/68473?author_name=Se%E1n&userlanguage=ga

Do you not think that part of Adshel contract with Dublin Bus would be the right to park beside bus stops for maintenance and service purposes.

brian_t · 12-10-2016 05:52PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Last thime I checked they weren't listed here https://www.lobbying.ie/help-resources/information-for-public-bodies/list-of-public-service-bodies/)

No-one is listed there

404 Page not found

We're sorry, the page you were looking for appears to have been moved, deleted or does not exist.

54and56 · 12-10-2016 05:56PM

brian_t wrote: »

No-one is listed there

My bad - https://www.lobbying.ie/help-resources/information-for-public-bodies/list-of-public-service-bodies

GM228 · 12-10-2016 05:58PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

The answer is cryptically contained in your post.

1. A bus stops for a few seconds to let passangers on/off. They don't park there.

2. A bus is a public service vehicle using .........wait for it..............a bus lane which is why bus lanes were put in place. It's not a Adshel parking bay lane is it?

Also, if your logic is followed to it's conclusion and applied equally to all anyone doing some business near a bus lane should be free to park in it for 5 minutes or so whenever they wish. True/False?

(Please don't say Adhsel are doing a public service putting up advertising posters!! Last thime I checked they weren't listed here https://www.lobbying.ie/help-resources/information-for-public-bodies/list-of-public-service-bodies/)

Buses don't stop just for a few seconds, try a bus during morning peak and you'll find it may be stopped for several minutes. As a cyclist I'd rather overtake an Adshel van than a bus.

Public service and public bodies are not the same and Bus Lanes are not just limited to public services, and most public bodies can't use them.

54and56 · 12-10-2016 05:59PM

brian_t wrote: »

According to Indymedia

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/68473?author_name=Se%E1n&userlanguage=ga

Do you not think that part of Adshel contract with Dublin Bus would be the right to park beside bus stops for maintenance and service purposes.

I think perhaps it should be becuase then they wouldn't be breaking the road traffic laws but unfortunately AFAIK it's not within the gift of Dublin Bus to giver permission to a private company to alter the road traffic laws.

Dublin bus may own the bus shelters but they don't own or have control over the legislation pertaining to bus lanes, cycle lanes or foot paths.

punisher5112 · 12-10-2016 06:21PM

If you have CD on your plate you can do what you want.

This has been bugging me for a while

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