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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #3362
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Koobcam wrote: »
    Ok, spo leave out the KKK bit then. But, specifically regarding Clinton, what is the problem? Can you or anyone explain to me how any rational person could choose Trump over Clinton?

    Because they think Trump is better.


    There's no way for anyone to be rational about this. We all make value judgements.


  • #3363
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    oik wrote: »
    Why is it that when people hear an opposing opinion they need to shout "LIIEEES"

    Can't you just accept we different views? Doesn't make me a liar.

    Very telling.

    You see it's not about 'views'.

    Some things are true and some aren't.

    Fox News either are or aren't biased.

    Trump either did or didn't say 'check out the sextape'

    HRC either is or isn't going to tax the middle class.

    Opinion has FCUK ALL to do with reality.

    Your opinion might be that you like the sound of everything Brietbart says but that doesn't make it true.

    My opinion may be that the republican machine is capable of spinning all those allegations against Bill but that doesn't make it true.

    There are truths we like to be right about and then there are truths we may not like.

    Stop ignoring the latter.

    Reality is important in politics


  • #3364
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Koobcam wrote: »
    Can you or anyone explain to me how any rational person could choose Trump over Clinton?
    It’s really quite simple, Trump’s pro-growth economic policies and his choices for the Supreme Court are far better than what Clinton offers.


  • #3365
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    gosplan wrote: »
    Very telling.

    You see it's not about 'views'.

    Some things are true and some aren't.

    Fox News either are or aren't biased.

    Trump either did or didn't say 'check out the sextape'

    HRC either is or isn't going to tax the middle class.

    Opinion has FCUK ALL to do with reality.

    Your opinion might be that you like the sound of everything Brietbart says but that doesn't make it true.

    When you're finished your quest for "truth" feel free to come back and enlighten us all. Tell us all what to think.


  • #3366
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    oik wrote: »
    Because they think Trump is better.


    There's no way for anyone to be rational about this. We all make value judgements.

    If you're making value judgements about things that are objectively true or false, you're doing it wrong. If you're saying that it's acceptable to make value judgements about things that are true or false, you're enabling irrational behaviour.

    Yes, people behave irrationally. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. It doesn't mean that irrational behaviours are every bit as acceptable as rational behaviours. This GOP-nurtured idea that people can get to make up their own facts to suit their beliefs is actively harmful.


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  • #3367
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    If you're making value judgements about things that are objectively true or false, you're doing it wrong. If you're saying that it's acceptable to make value judgements about things that are true or false, you're enabling irrational behaviour.

    Yes, people behave irrationally. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. It doesn't mean that irrational behaviours are every bit as acceptable as rational behaviours. This GOP-nurtured idea that people can get to make up their own facts to suit their beliefs is actively harmful.

    That's a lot of "if's"


  • #3368
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    It’s really quite simple, Trump’s pro-growth economic policies and his choices for the Supreme Court are far better than what Clinton offers.

    What pro growth policies specifically?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #3369
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    If this election were based on value judgements, both candidates would have already disappeared down the rabbit hole. So what do we have left... Policies and goals.


  • #3370
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    What pro growth policies specifically?

    I’ve answered questions like this over and over again here. Rather than have to once again type it all out, I’ll just point you to his specific vision for economic growth. They all look good and sound to me.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/08/12/trump-pro-growth-plan-simplifies-tax-code-steers-economy-to-greater-opportunity-for-all/#19ec7ad6cf6a


  • #3371
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Did Fox News collude with the Republican party to help secure the primaries for Trump? Have you a link to such shocking revelations? Surely wikileaks were all over this?

    I hate Fox News and blame them principally for there being a candidate such as Trump in this election. But they are not on the level of what has taken place over on the other side in this race.


    I don't need to send links to these shocking revelations.

    The world and his dog knows that the man who ran the network up to two months ago and one of their main talk show hosts are top advisors on the Trump campaign.


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  • #3372
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    This GOP-nurtured idea that people can get to make up their own facts to suit their beliefs is actively harmful.

    I know you like to rely on stereotypes to get a feeling of superiority, but chances are your opposition has got the measure of you better than you have of them.

    You can promote all the stereotypes you want, but there have been studies done that show that conservatives understand how liberals see the world and can accurately roleplay them but liberals are utterly oblivious when it comes to conservatives point of view. They are incapable of conceptualising them as anything other than the caricature they carry in their own minds.


    I'll remind you of this any time you make some stupid generalisation like the above.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/13/confirmed-conservatives-understand-liberal-positions-better-than-liberals-understand-conservative-positions/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520939/


  • #3373
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    More Podesta emails out today.


  • #3374
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    I’ve answered questions like this over and over again here. Rather than have to once again type it all out, I’ll just point you to his specific vision for economic growth. They all look good and sound to me.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/08/12/trump-pro-growth-plan-simplifies-tax-code-steers-economy-to-greater-opportunity-for-all/#19ec7ad6cf6a

    And you've been told over and over again that those are talking points. There is a severe lack of specificity to Trump's plans.

    Look at his website. Under "Jobs": I'll be the president who creates the most jobs ever. Nothing about how it'll happen.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #3375
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Brian? wrote: »
    And you've been told over and over again that those are talking points. There is a severe lack of specificity to Trump's plans.

    Look at his website. Under "Jobs": I'll be the president who creates the most jobs ever. Nothing about how it'll happen.

    A corporation tax cut isn't specific enough?


  • #3376
    Feline Grabber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Feline Grabber


    Brian? wrote: »
    What pro growth policies specifically?

    Trickle down economics and a boom in the automation industry as engineers and programmers are hired to replace those manufacturing jobs.


  • #3377
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    oik wrote: »
    When you're finished your quest for "truth" feel free to come back and enlighten us all. Tell us all what to think.

    Whatever.

    As long as you think facts are a matter of opinion, there isn't much point engaging you.

    Sad that in the Information Age, this is what people choose to do.

    You should put that in your sig BTW. It would save a lot of people a lot of time.


  • #3378
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    gosplan wrote: »
    Whatever.

    As long as you think facts are a matter of opinion, there isn't much point engaging you.

    Sad that in the Information Age, this is what people choose to do.

    You should put that in your sig BTW. It would save a lot of people a lot of time.

    As long as you think that bias is a matter of fact...


  • #3379
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    oik wrote: »
    A corporation tax cut isn't specific enough?

    The tax policy centre said he'd reduce the GDP by about 9tn.

    Are they worth listening to?


  • #3380
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    oik wrote: »
    As long as you think that bias is a matter of fact...

    So I can decide that the Irish times is pro emmmmm.......Gary Johnson.

    Are you serious? Media bias is a matter of opinion? Jesus, think for a minute there.


  • #3381
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    First we find out she despises almost a quarter of the population as deplorable and irredeemable, and now per WikiLeaks from Clinton's campaign guru John Podesta: Hillary hates everyday Americans. So I have to wonder… Why is anyone, unless you’re part of Wall Street, 'With Her?"

    emailnew.jpg

    Jennifer Palmieri, Director of Communications for Hillary’s presidential campaign, apparently agreed with Podesta’s analysis and responded with “Truth.”


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  • #3382
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I think you may be misreading that email


  • #3383
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Polls show sharp increase in Clinton lead..

    The collapse in Trumps support since the beginning of October is fairly startling..

    Whilst he's had peaks and troughs before , given that voting has already started any recovery is likely to be too little too late..

    Clinton had a 2.7 point gap in the Average of the polls on October 1st , the gap is now 6.5

    RCP has Clinton on 260 EC votes to Trumps 165 so she just needs to win one of the Battlegrounds. Trump effectively has to win them all

    Of the 6 key states with enough EC votes to get to 270 you have the following

    Clinton Leads Florida by 2.4 points (29 EC votes)
    Cinton leads by 0.5 points in Ohio
    Trump leads by 5 points in Georgia (16 EC Votes)
    Clinton leads by 2.6 points in North Carolina (15 EC Votes)
    Trump leads Arizona by 1 point (11 EC Votes)
    Clinton leads by 4.3 points in Minnesota (10 EC Votes)


    I just don't see a viable scenario where Trump wins every single one of the battlegrounds , Clinton just needs to bring any one of the above over the line and she wins...


  • #3384
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    gosplan wrote: »
    The tax policy centre said he'd reduce the GDP by about 9tn.

    Are they worth listening to?

    You're not worth listening to because you have no clue what you're talking about.

    If you reduced GDP by 9tn that would be shrinking the US economy by half.

    What they actually said is if it's not accompanied by spending cuts it would increase the national debt by 9tn over the course of 10 years.

    That's a lot different to reducing GDP by half.


  • #3385
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Is there any mails that Hillary actually sent?

    All I'm seeing is emails going around her team and people firing the blame at her.

    Be like someone blaming her for Bills infidelity.....


  • #3386
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    I think you may be misreading that email

    I don't believe there is anyway to misread "I know she has begun to hate everyday Americans"


  • #3387
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Polls show sharp increase in Clinton lead..

    The collapse in Trumps support since the beginning of October is fairly startling..

    Whilst he's had peaks and troughs before , given that voting has already started any recovery is likely to be too little too late..

    Clinton had a 2.7 point gap in the Average of the polls on October 1st , the gap is now 6.5

    RCP has Clinton on 260 EC votes to Trumps 165 so she just needs to win one of the Battlegrounds. Trump effectively has to win them all

    Of the 6 key states with enough EC votes to get to 270 you have the following

    Clinton Leads Florida by 2.4 points (29 EC votes)
    Cinton leads by 0.5 points in Ohio
    Trump leads by 5 points in Georgia (16 EC Votes)
    Clinton leads by 2.6 points in North Carolina (15 EC Votes)
    Trump leads Arizona by 1 point (11 EC Votes)
    Clinton leads by 4.3 points in Minnesota (10 EC Votes)



    I just don't see a viable scenario where Trump wins every single one of the battlegrounds , Clinton just needs to bring any one of the above over the line and she wins...


    Arizona and Georgia are battleground states??

    This election is done!


  • #3388
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Amerika wrote: »
    I don't believe there is anyway to misread "I know she has begun to hate everyday Americans"

    I think it means the phrase "everyday Americans"


  • #3389
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    Arizona and Georgia are battleground states??

    This election is done!

    They've been battleground states the whole time.


  • #3390
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    Is there any mails that Hillary actually sent?

    All I'm seeing is emails going around her team and people firing the blame at her.

    Be like someone blaming her for Bills infidelity.....

    Are you trying to tell me that her inner circle and closest confidants don't know her?


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  • #3391
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    oik wrote: »
    You're not worth listening to because you have no clue what you're talking about.

    If you reduced GDP by 9tn that would be shrinking the US economy by half.

    What they actually said is if it's not accompanied by spending cuts it would increase the national debt by 9tn over the course of 10 years.

    That's a lot different to reducing GDP by half.

    Sorry, change GDP to revenue.

    Out of curiosity, what are his spending cuts?


This discussion has been closed.
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