Donald Trump

take everything · 05-10-2016 01:16AM

I don't say this in a bragadocious way but we are so gonna win big with this thread. Some really tremendous posts here.

Anyone who hasn't posted here. What can I say.
Sad!

Samaris · 05-10-2016 07:32AM

The vice-presidential debate was tonight. Yeah, the thing that no-one watches

Although they did in this case, it actually pulled in viewers since this entire election is a TV reality show anyway.

The general response to it seems to be that both were seasoned politicians doing their jobs, although Tim Kaine went on the attack with the whole interrupting thing which has worked in the past, but with Kaine, is a bit like a tiny labradoodle chewing your ankles*. Pence was a lot calmer, avoided anything to do with all the many, many scandals and kept on with the party line.

Early stage chewing over it seems to have it that Kaine might have won on points, but Pence probably won on how he came across and who got their message out most coherently. Probably also won on sympathy due to being savaged by a labradoodle onstage.

*He seems like a nice guy, but the essential labradorness shows even when he's doing his best to be a dobermann. Although I personally find constant interruptions an extremely irritating form of debate whether I'm in it or listening to it.

Calina · 05-10-2016 08:07AM

Samaris wrote: »

The vice-presidential debate was tonight. Yeah, the thing that no-one watches Although they did in this case, it actually pulled in viewers since this entire election is a TV reality show anyway.

The general response to it seems to be that both were seasoned politicians doing their jobs, although Tim Kaine went on the attack with the whole interrupting thing which has worked in the past, but with Kaine, is a bit like a tiny labradoodle chewing your ankles*. Pence was a lot calmer, avoided anything to do with all the many, many scandals and kept on with the party line.

Early stage chewing over it seems to have it that Kaine might have won on points, but Pence probably won on how he came across and who got their message out most coherently. Probably also won on sympathy due to being savaged by a labradoodle onstage.

*He seems like a nice guy, but the essential labradorness shows even when he's doing his best to be a dobermann. Although I personally find constant interruptions an extremely irritating form of debate whether I'm in it or listening to it.

I've seen the view expressed that Pence was targeting 2020 for himself rather than anything else and that he appears to be fighting a different campaign to Trump's campaign.

So yeah, in four years time Mike Pence should be reminded he was a Trump enabler.

Trent Houseboat · 05-10-2016 08:12AM

Pence/Cruz 2020
Make America Puritanical Again

Hande hoche! · 05-10-2016 09:49AM

Pence was on fine form. Imagine that Trump will probably undo that good work, come Sunday.

MeatTwoVeg · 05-10-2016 09:57AM

Hande hoche! wrote:

Pence was on fine form. Imagine that Trump will probably undo that good work, come Sunday.

Assuming he shows up.

A Little Pony · 05-10-2016 12:16PM

Put Pence up against Hillary lol. He was great.

Trent Houseboat · 05-10-2016 12:22PM

A Little Pony wrote:

Put Pence up against Hillary lol. He was great.

Are you suggesting that an establishment career politician would be better in a debate than a narcissistic liar with the attention span of a hand drier who'd never been in a debate before (we don't count the primaries)?

But I thought Trump's big appeal.

A Little Pony · 05-10-2016 12:26PM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote:

Put Pence up against Hillary lol. He was great.

Are you suggesting that an establishment career politician would be better in a debate than a narcissistic liar with the attention span of a hand drier who'd never been in a debate before (we don't count the primaries)?

But I thought Trump's big appeal.

Trump needs to be more disciplined and stay on message. He should listen to Farage advice.

pumpkin4life · 05-10-2016 12:32PM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

The debate wasn't about winning in a rational, technical sense.
The debate was about being more likeable, trying to cancel out your biggest weaknesses for undecided voters.

Trump = crazy unpresidental fùcker.

Clinton = evil Globalist fùcker/health issues.

In that way, I think Trump may have edged it, but to call it a success/disaster for either a big naff.

I think the results from many of the online polls might support this.

Exact same format as the Trump/Hilary debate in terms of the aim of the debate, right down to the choice of clothes and tie color.

Only difference is Pence was noticeably better and more likable than Kaine, whereas the last one was a draw/slight edge to Trump in my opinion. Not that people give much of a crap in relation to VP debates, but a very minor win for the Trump/Pence ticket I'd say.

Exeggcute · 05-10-2016 12:34PM

Kaine blew that debate.

Both of them told whopping lies as per usual but Pence came across as cool, calm and collected (important when your running mate is Trump) while Kaine managed to be more shrill than Hillary.

pumpkin4life · 05-10-2016 12:40PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

Kaine blew that debate.

Both of them told whopping lies as per usual but Pence came across as cool, calm and collected (important when your running mate is Trump) while Kaine managed to be more shrill than Hillary.

Yep. Pence did will in terms of cancelling out Trumps weaknesses (unpresidential fùcker) by being calm and level headed, and Kaine did poorly in terms of cancelling out Hillary's (he came across as very snarky and bitchy imo, rather than aggressive and dominant, which was what they wanted) weaknesses, by being even more snarky and bitchy than she is. His interrupting shtick didn't work at all.

Trent Houseboat · 05-10-2016 12:44PM

A Little Pony wrote:

Trump needs to be more disciplined and stay on message

I don't know if he stays on messages we won't find out important policy details that he's holding close to his chest, like the fact that his 10 year old son is good at cyber or that Rosie O'Donnell was mean to him.

seamus · 05-10-2016 12:58PM

General opinion seems to be that Kaine went on the offensive at Pence about Trump, while Pence basically just stayed on-message, regardless of whether it contradicted anything Trump said in the past. And it meant that Pence came off looking better - calm and collected, versus on-edge and on the attack.

I wonder though whether his contradictions of Trump, such as on the topics of Russia and abortion, will anger Trump voters though.

Jimoslimos · 05-10-2016 01:10PM

Calina wrote: »

I've seen the view expressed that Pence was targeting 2020 for himself rather than anything else and that he appears to be fighting a different campaign to Trump's campaign.

Well he better do something to ensure that DT doesn't get elected, otherwise 4 years as VP will be as close as he ever gets to the presidency...unless...the Second Amendment, people!

everlast75 · 05-10-2016 01:34PM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I don't know if he stays on messages we won't find out important policy details that he's holding close to his chest, like the fact that his 10 year old son is good at cyber or that Rosie O'Donnell was mean to him.

or which sex tapes to watch...

Christy42 · 05-10-2016 02:20PM

seamus wrote: »

General opinion seems to be that Kaine went on the offensive at Pence about Trump, while Pence basically just stayed on-message, regardless of whether it contradicted anything Trump said in the past. And it meant that Pence came off looking better - calm and collected, versus on-edge and on the attack.

I wonder though whether his contradictions of Trump, such as on the topics of Russia and abortion, will anger Trump voters though.

Even if Trump himself did a complete 180 degrees and supported complete open immigration. No walls. No random bluster and insulting people. I still think he would retain his current base. Nothing will shake them. They want to vote for Trump the details after that seem unimportant.

Penn · 05-10-2016 02:24PM

seamus wrote: »

General opinion seems to be that Kaine went on the offensive at Pence about Trump, while Pence basically just stayed on-message, regardless of whether it contradicted anything Trump said in the past. And it meant that Pence came off looking better - calm and collected, versus on-edge and on the attack.

I'd nearly wonder if Kaine's aggressiveness in the debate was a response to the comments essentially about how boring he is.

Christy42 · 05-10-2016 03:27PM

Penn wrote: »

I'd nearly wonder if Kaine's aggressiveness in the debate was a response to the comments essentially about how boring he is.

I am curious if Kaine was sacrificed to set Trump up. Clinton now has a load of material to divide up Pence and Trump in the next two debates given the differences in their answers.

Granted I doubt it was a strategy but they may be able to take advantage anyway

everlast75 · 05-10-2016 03:39PM

https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/783669207040946176

Trent Houseboat · 05-10-2016 03:56PM

everlast75 wrote:

https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/s...69207040946176

I wouldn't be surprised if the Clinton campaign didn't have those Trump response clips already pulled and just sent Kaine out with a list of policies to try to get Pence to defend.

Pretty solid rope-a-dope, but still the Veep Off so probably nobody will care.

osarusan · 06-10-2016 09:30AM

I liked this one.

everlast75 · 06-10-2016 11:14AM

I f**king hate the way this guy talks. It really irritates me. He contradicts himself in the one sentence.

Re Hillary "if you want to know the truth, I don't even think she's been loyal to Bill". His thought isn't the truth!?

his latest one of asking people who are terminally I'll to not die so they can vote for him

"I say this kiddingly, but I mean it" - which is it you cheesy wotsit?

Winterlong · 06-10-2016 01:53PM

everlast75 wrote: »

I f**king hate the way this guy talks. It really irritates me. He contradicts himself in the one sentence.

Re Hillary "if you want to know the truth, I don't even think she's been loyal to Bill". His thought isn't the truth!?

his latest one of asking people who are terminally I'll to not die so they can vote for him

"I say this kiddingly, but I mean it" - which is it you cheesy wotsit?

He is 'straight talkin' in the eyes of his fans.

I have believed for months that he would defy logic and get elected. But I am wavering on that belief on the final run in. Common sense should prevail I think.
Maybe.

Billy86 · 06-10-2016 02:25PM

Winterlong wrote: »

He is 'straight talkin' in the eyes of his fans.

I have believed for months that he would defy logic and get elected. But I am wavering on that belief on the final run in. Common sense should prevail I think.
Maybe.

It certainly seems so, the latest polls are not looking good for Trump. Posted this on the politics forum, but it's obviously relevant here too...

Latest set of polls at RCP look particularly bad for Trump - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...nton-5491.html

Taking a look at the state polls on RCP, Clinton has a 225 - 165 lead on those likely decided. It is worth noting that neither Pennsylvania nor Virginia are considered 'toss ups' anymore, with both in favour of Clinton: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html

Toss up, Trump leads:
Iowa (6 seats) - 5.0 lead.
Georgia (16 seats) - 4.8 lead.
Ohio (18 seats) - 2.4 lead.
Arizona (11 seats) - 1.3 lead
Total = 38 seats... 213 total.
**This still puts Trump a dozen votes behind Clinton, even without counting her 'toss up' states at present.

Toss up, Clinton leads:
Michigan (16 seats) - 5.0 lead.
Wisconsin (10 seats) - 5.0 lead.
Minnesota (10 seats) - 4.3 lead.
Maine (2 seats) - 3.8 lead.
Colorado (9 seats) - 3.3 lead.
Florida (29 seats) - 2.2 lead.
Nevada (6 seats) - 1.4 lead.
N. Carolina (15 seats) - 1.3 lead.
Total = 97 seats... 323 total.

There is still a month to go and polls will never be 100% accurate of course*, but based on them if the election happened today the result would be:**
Clinton 323 votes vs. Trump 213

*Before anyone says it, the Brexit polls showed 'leave' for several weeks, right up until Tommy Mair murdered Jo Cox 10 or so days before the referendum.
**Yes I know, I am missing 2 votes in there somewhere (it's 538 total!)

Samaris · 06-10-2016 02:27PM

Winterlong wrote: »

He is 'straight talkin' in the eyes of his fans.

I have believed for months that he would defy logic and get elected. But I am wavering on that belief on the final run in. Common sense should prevail I think.
Maybe.

Overall, I think he will lose. I've definitely had some worried moments, and if some big scandal does hit Clinton, it could swing it. Not to mention that the final debate is the Fox one (although it'd be hilarious if Megyn Kelly moderated it, I suspect they will carefully get a straight white male so people can't complain that Trump was unfairly mederated by a black guy, a gay guy and a woman!)

I'm inclined to agree that Pence is running in 2020. In which case, he better hope that Trump loses. A republican VP running against an incumbent republican would be disastrous for the GOP and they can't really afford another disaster like this one in four years time.

The ideal situation for the GOP would actually be Clinton getting into office, the Reps winning down the ticket, the Republicans get to screw her sideways for four years and block her from doing anything, much as they tried with Obama, and then have a sane, articulate version of Trump in 2020 to run with, while getting to say that Clinton was useless (because they screwed her repeatedly).

God, that's a cynical view of American politics. I deeply suspect it's fairly accurate though.

osarusan · 06-10-2016 02:28PM

Samaris wrote: »

Overall, I think he will lose. I've definitely had some worried moments, and if some big scandal does hit Clinton, it could swing it. Not to mention that the final debate is the Fox one (although it'd be hilarious if Megyn Kelly moderated it, I suspect they will carefully get a straight white male so people can't complain that Trump was unfairly mederated by a black guy, a gay guy and a woman!)

It will be moderated by Chris Wallace.

Bazzo · 06-10-2016 02:29PM

I give it 12 hours before Brexit is mentioned 10 times and we get a couple one line posts reminding us that "It's going to be hilarious looking at all the lefty liberal loony SJWs when Trump destroys Hillary".

Samaris · 06-10-2016 02:39PM

osarusan wrote: »

It will be moderated by Chris Wallace.

Isn't he the one that said it wouldn't be his job to fact-check the caged lions politicians on stage?

What this entire election requires is a great big billboard behind each candidate and every time one of them tells a lie, it flashes red and keeps count.

And maybe a bucket of water gets dropped on them too each time. And after enough lies, the floor opens up behind the podium and they're dropped into a bear cage.

Or at least 1% of the total votes for a candidate gets removed for each lie :P

Billy86 · 06-10-2016 02:40PM

Samaris wrote: »

Not to mention that the final debate is the Fox one (although it'd be hilarious if Megyn Kelly moderated it, I suspect they will carefully get a straight white male so people can't complain that Trump was unfairly mederated by a black guy, a gay guy and a woman!)

It's Chris Wallace, who is apparently a registered Democrat but obviously a 'FOX Democrat' - seen a lot as a 'company man' and I would suggest you youtube an interview he did with Bill Clinton a few years back. Very entertaining watching Clinton steamroll the sh*t out of him for 15 straight minutes. :pac:

That said, he did make a good deal of noise that the Republican primary debates were an absolute joke with zero substance.

God, that's a cynical view of American politics. I deeply suspect it's fairly accurate though.

If anything it's an understatement, and here's an example from just the last few days.

- Republicans pushed for a bill allowing 9/11 victims' families to sue Saudi Arabia. Not sure what world this is realistic in.
- Obama vetoed it.
- The Republicans were able to override the veto and still push it through.
- As soon as it was put through, Republican speaker of the House Mitch McConnell came out saying how terrible a bill it was, and how Obama was to blame for not stopping it from happening.

Yes, you did just read that correctly... I sh*t you not - https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/30/the-unbearable-idiocy-of-congress/?utm_term=.b48f92a48d92
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-29/congress-signals-regret-after-overriding-veto-of-saudi-9-11-bill?utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-business

Both House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said that the measure could have unintended consequences — including the fact that it could leave U.S. soldiers open to retaliation by foreign governments. Before the vote, senior administration officials warned lawmakers of this exact problem — that weakening the concept of sovereign immunity could backfire if foreign countries tried to do the same for the U.S. Secretary of Defense Ash Carter sent House Armed Services Chairman Mac Thornberry of Texas a letter saying that could potentially expose Americans to lawsuits and “an intrusive discovery process” even if the U.S. is ultimately found not to be responsible for a particular event.

But Republicans said the White House didn’t make a forceful case, putting themselves in the awkward position of blaming the president for a bill they enacted into law over Obama’s veto.

Donald Trump

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