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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #2522
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Igotadose wrote: »
    FWIW I think this one's kind of blown out of proportion, I think Trump's such a dreadful public speaker that he actually didn't mean to attack veterans. Hard to say - he's like Phalin, endless 'word salad'.

    It's not terminal to his campaign or anything. It's indicative of the way he thinks thoug; POWs can't be heroes, soldiers with PTSD weren't strong enough.

    He talks the strong man, but he dodged the draft and has zero respect for veterans.
    Millions will vote for this guy, no matter what he says. Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone seems to be the only journalist who is getting the election right, latest good article here: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/stop-whining-about-false-balance-w440228 . Ending quote sums up this election perfectly: "I'm as worried as anyone else about the possibility of Trump getting elected. But if it happens, it's not going to be because The New York Times allowed a few reporters to investigate the Clinton Foundation. It'll be because we're a nation of idiots, who vote the same way we choose channels: without thinking. "

    Hard to disagree.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2523
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    I don't get your point at all. Hillary voted for the war based on the evidence provided by the Bush administration. Fabricated evidence, in parts.

    The Bush administration is responsible for invading Iraq. But you want to blame Hillary because you hate her.

    I am not blaming Hillary. I used Hillary's own words which were that the policy for regime change in Iraq and the options to make it happen started in 1998.
    Maybe Hillary hates Hillary if that is the case.


  • #2524
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Given Wikileaks are having a big event tomorrow about Clinton and her emails.
    This suggests Wikileaks may have posted that on twitter as an appetiser, and maybe the whole cancelling the event on the balcony to reveal the information for security reasons, is down to emails about Hillary Clinton wanting to murder him?
    Given it is a state email in that piece, maybe it reached them via Wikileaks...

    Wow, that big wikileaks reveal was a real eyeopener, wasn't it?


  • #2525
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    The military person who did the interview with Trump said he was upset with the coverage that Trump's comments about people coming back from wars and not being strong, has been twisted by the media.
    He said the people doing this are sickening.


  • #2526
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Wow, that big wikileaks reveal was a real eyeopener, wasn't it?

    Yes it was great.
    Releases every week for the next 10 weeks.
    The best part was Alex Jones.


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  • #2527
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am not blaming Hillary. I used Hillary's own words which were that the policy for regime change in Iraq and the options to make it happen started in 1998.
    Maybe Hillary hates Hillary if that is the case.

    The policy started in 1998. When did the invasion happen? Why did the invasion happen? If you're not blaming Hillary for the invasion why are you bringing it up?

    No one denies she voted for the war.

    Trump denies he supported the war, when it's fairly clear he did.

    I'm struggling to see the relevance of this point about regime change. Neither Bill not Hillary Clinton were responsible for invading Iraq.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2528
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The military person who did the interview with Trump said he was upset with the coverage that Trump's comments about people coming back from wars and not being strong, has been twisted by the media.
    He said the people doing this are sickening.

    How was it twisted?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2529
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Lol, assange rambling about how amazing he is, so please send money and buy my book thnx.

    Game. Over. Clinton.


  • #2530
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes it was great.
    Releases every week for the next 10 weeks.
    The best part was Alex Jones.

    What was it?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2531
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    The policy started in 1998. When did the invasion happen? Why did the invasion happen? If you're not blaming Hillary for the invasion why are you bringing it up?

    No one denies she voted for the war.

    Trump denies he supported the war, when it's fairly clear he did.

    I'm struggling to see the relevance of this point about regime change. Neither Bill not Hillary Clinton were responsible for invading Iraq.

    Well some wanted to make out it was Condoleezza Rice who started the war.
    I just pointed out the policy towards Iraq changed to regime change and the options to make it happen in 1998 under the Clinton administration.


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  • #2532
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Brian? wrote: »
    What was it?

    Nothing, literally nothing.


  • #2533
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    What was it?

    A 40% book sale - true.

    Said they would not be releasing info about the US st 3am US time.
    But will be every week for the next 10 weeks.


  • #2534
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Well some wanted to make out it was Condoleezza Rice who started the war.
    I just pointed out the policy towards Iraq changed to regime change and the options to make it happen in 1998 under the Clinton administration.

    Regime change does not equal invasion. The policy of the US towards Iran had been regime change for 3 decades, with no plan to take military action. It's a stretch to assign blame to either Clinton for the Iraq war. You're happy to make that stretch though as you e decided you hate Hillary and will do your best to find reasons to hate her.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2535
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,174 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Nothing, literally nothing.

    Remember when Assange leaked documents which humiliated Putin and his minions? Yeah, me neither.


  • #2536
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    How was it twisted?

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/3/military-veteran-defends-trump-blasts-media/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork


  • #2537
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/3/military-veteran-defends-trump-blasts-media/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork


    Ok. How were his words twisted? I read the quote and it's disgraceful.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2538
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Brian? wrote: »
    Regime change does not equal invasion. The policy of the US towards Iran had been regime change for 3 decades, with no plan to take military action. It's a stretch to assign blame to either Clinton for the Iraq war. You're happy to make that stretch though as you e decided you hate Hillary and will do your best to find reasons to hate her.

    Don't worry, I'm sure Robert knows that. Sure only yesterday he was claiming it was Colin Powell and not Rice when he was defending his bizarre stance on her in contrast to Clinton. The line only changed to the Clinton's when it was pointed out to him (for the 4th or 5th time...) that Powell was never consulted over Iraq, the decision was made between Bush and Rice, and just about nobody else.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
    In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time; performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values; or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

    That's not intended as an insult either, I'd say we're all guilty of this in some walk of life to an extent.


  • #2539
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    Regime change does not equal invasion. The policy of the US towards Iran had been regime change for 3 decades, with no plan to take military action. It's a stretch to assign blame to either Clinton for the Iraq war. You're happy to make that stretch though as you e decided you hate Hillary and will do your best to find reasons to hate her.

    You think four years after 1998 when policy changed that the US was closer to their goal of regime change in Iraq?
    Why is using Hillary's own words seen as attacking Hillary?
    I am not, this started from the Rice debate that some here wanted and now that Clinton's own words are used to say who started the policy for regime change in Iraq, it is seen as attacking Hillary.


  • #2540
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You think four years after 1998 when policy changed that the US was closer to their goal of regime change in Iraq?
    Why is using Hillary's own words seen as attacking Hillary?
    I am not, this started from the Rice debate that some here wanted and now that Clinton's own words are used to say who started the policy for regime change in Iraq, it is seen as attacking Hillary.

    I honestly have no idea what your point is.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2541
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Don't worry, I'm sure Robert knows that. Sure only yesterday he was claiming it was Colin Powell and not Rice when he was defending his bizarre stance on her in contrast to Clinton. The line only changed to the Clinton's when it was pointed out to him (for the 4th or 5th time...) that Powell was never consulted over Iraq, the decision was made between Bush and Rice, and just about nobody else.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
    In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time; performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values; or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

    That's not intended as an insult either, I'd say we're all guilty of this in some walk of life to an extent.

    When did the US policy for regime change in Iraq start?


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  • #2542
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    When did the US policy for regime change start?

    Why does it matter? Regime change doesn't mean military action.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #2543
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    I honestly have no idea what your point is.

    People wanted a debate on Condoleezza Rice yesterday.
    This is what it has led to.
    I said to the mods it was off topic, they chose to say it was relevant.


  • #2544
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    Why does it matter? Regime change doesn't mean military action.

    So when Hillary said the options for it started then too, you believe war was not an option?


  • #2545
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Robert, you're fooling nobody here, maybe yourself but I'd even doubt that. The fact is, it was Rice and Bush's decision to go to war, and that's all there is to it.

    If there were any merit in your comments, attempts would have been made to overthrow Saddam in December 1998. But they were not. Hence, you point is completely moot.

    Still wondering why you were putting it on Powell only yesterday by the way...


  • #2546
    ads20101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭ads20101


    I don't think that Trump will drop out before the election. There was a possibility that he may have done this earlier due to his egocentricity, but the truth is, despite the moronic statements from himself and his team the ground support has not significantly waned, especially from the white / male / non-college graduate group.

    This is especially confusing from an objective outsider as this is primarily the population that has been essentially screwed from his businesses.

    Honestly, why can't people see this, or is it me missing something.

    As for Clinton, I increasingly get the feeling from the GOP camp that if they fielded nearly anyone other than Trump they would walk freely back into the white house. I can't see Hillary being a second term president.


  • #2547
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Remember when Assange leaked documents which humiliated Putin and his minions? Yeah, me neither.

    Poor Assange. Throwing his support behind Donald trump has seriously damaged his image.

    And now this stunt. It turns out he just wants to sell memberships in wikkileaks. Maybe the Ecuadorians are wondering if maybe he could pay a bit of rent?


  • #2548
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/783259936428089344

    Hillary Clinton's support of a coup in Honduras. She loves regime change.


  • #2549
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Robert, you're fooling nobody here, maybe yourself but I'd even doubt that. The fact is, it was Rice and Bush's decision to go to war, and that's all there is to it.

    If there were any merit in your comments, attempts would have been made to overthrow Saddam in December 1998. But they were not. Hence, you point is completely moot.

    Still wondering why you were putting it on Powell only yesterday by the way...

    Powell was the messenger with the lies given to him by intelligence...though it is an insult to intelligence, he did not stop it.

    Backed up in the senate by most Republicans and Democrats. It was then that gave Bush the go-ahead for a war.
    It was then that gave Bush the go-ahead to achieve the policy change goal of regime change in Iraq which started in 1998.
    It doesn't make much difference who is in power with foreign policy, when you look at the US, one has to come to the conclusion that the Pentagon in the end control foreign policy.
    Most of us including myself in the past blamed neocons for the Iraq war, but looking deeper, the policy did not start with the Bush administration, it was with the Clinton administration.
    I think one should be cynical of both parties in the US, they may pretend to hate each other, but then they all seem very close...

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/780585219648880640


  • #2550
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    Ok. How were his words twisted? I read the quote and it's disgraceful.

    The army man who asked the question said it was sickening and twisted, even said he had PTSD stress when he returned and he got help and is now fine.
    The military guy who asked the question seemed to be saying Trump understood the issue and the people in the room are strong as they got help, but others come back from war and are not - and that they need help and that is what Trump wants to give them.

    From when I first read the supposedly insulting quote I did not see the insult. The problem seems to be the word 'strong'.
    This is a problem when it comes to mental health, it seems some people take insult if one's mental health is not described as 'strong'.
    When it comes to lets say a heart beat and it is described as 'weak' it is not seen as an insult but a health problem, when it comes to mental health, it seems to be different and if you talk about people having seen the same thing as being strong and others not, then it is a terrible insult.
    Everyone's mental health varies sometimes we have good strong mental health, something might happen and it is not strong.
    Seems the taboo over mental health is alive and well, and saying people are strong and implying others are not is avoiding the real issue when the issue is people do have a weakened mental health, some people are stronger mentally.
    People getting offended for the sake of it.


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  • #2551
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The army man who asked the question said it was sickening and twisted, even said he had PTSD stress when he returned and he got help and is now fine.
    The military guy who asked the question seemed to be saying Trump understood the issue and the people in the room are strong as they got help, but others come back from war and are not - and that they need help and that is what Trump wants to give them.

    From when I first read the supposedly insulting quote I did not see the insult. The problem seems to be the word 'strong'.
    This is a problem when it comes to mental health, it seems some people take insult if one's mental health is not described as 'strong'.
    When it comes to lets say a heart beat and it is described as 'weak' it is not seen as an insult but a health problem, when it comes to mental health, it seems to be different and if you talk about people having seen the same thing as being strong and others not, then it is a terrible insult.
    Everyone's mental health varies sometimes we have good strong mental health, something might happen and it is not strong.
    Seems the taboo over mental health is alive and well, and saying people are strong and implying others are not is avoiding the real issue when the issue is people do have a weakened mental health, some people are stronger mentally.
    People getting offended for the sake of it.

    You've done some serious mental gymnastics there. Trump said a horrible thing, the latest in a long list.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



This discussion has been closed.
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