Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

The Black Oil · 29-09-2016 08:28PM

Jeez, the finisher pix crowd sure are persistent with emails if you don't buy the pics...

chickey2 · 29-09-2016 08:55PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

Jeez, the finisher pix crowd sure are persistent with emails if you don't buy the pics...

They sure are. And it's not like the photos get any better each time they mail you! No way I'm paying that much for an awful photo.
Hope the marathon ones are a bit better. In DCM 2014 a guy collapsed at the finish line just in front of me so I got offered a photo of a paramedic as my finisher photo!

nop98 · 29-09-2016 09:24PM

kittyclaws wrote: »

I trust her completely. She'd prefer I don't get it as it doesn't cure an injury, it just masks it, which is why she advises against it. I just want to have it as a back-up plan so I don't have to drop out this close to the marathon because of a silly little pain. Its something I'll discuss with my GP as well before I go booking into the sports clinic for it.

Hey kittyclaws, this is obviously your decision but I have to say, this kinda worries me - and I am not surprised that your physio advises against it.

I am no medical professional but the thought of "numbing" the signals your body is sending sounds completely wrong to me. These signals are being sent for a reason, and if that reason is that it can't cope with the strain you're putting on your body, then maybe it's better to listen and not put it under that much pressure. You might be running yourself long-term damage, particularly if you won't get the real feedback from your body.

As much as I'd like all of you to get to the start-line in tip-top shape, this unfortunately won't happen for all - and there will be more races after DCM. If you're struggling to get through a decent set of miles without pain, it's probably better to start resetting expectations, rather than going down this route.

Again, this is just my view, but I am sure I am not the only one. In my early running days I read a lot of the race-reports on TFB's blog (here). He writes sometimes that he's tempted to take painkillers during long races but almost invariably doesn't - for exactly the same right reasons.

Make sure to discuss this thoroughly with someone knowledgeable before actually going ahead...

nop98 · 29-09-2016 09:42PM

I won't be able online much over the weekend, so I just want to wish you all the best for your long runs this weekend. Also, the indefatigable Firedance has chosen this week to be on holidays. Much as she deserves that, I am sure you'll agree that that is very inconsiderate timing. :P

As I'm sure you're aware, this is the beginning of the last stretch of the training plans and after this week (and next, for HHN1-followers), the mileage will be coming down. You have all come an amazingly long way and it's a matter of taking a deep breath, stay calm, and try and get yourself to the startline on October 30th in one piece, or as close to one piece as you can.

I hope those of you who are Dublin based will be able to take up A Neurotic and Extrasupervery up on their offer to run next week's long run together (or at least a good auld stretch). There is even sustenance on offer! I will try and join too - not for 20M, mind! - if real life doesn't get in the way. :rolleyes:

I was reading some of last year's thread for inspiration (in fact, I can recommend you all to do so, you'll realize I'm plagiarizing my way through this). There is a wealth of information including a couple of good links to external articles which I thought I'd share.

Next week, when we're actually in October (!), we'll talk a little about the upcoming taper. You'll be looking forward to some lower mileage and some time back to do other things (you know, things you used to do before you thought "ah sure, I'll give that marathon training a go"

). But what's the theory behind tapering? Read here and here.

Another article I saw referenced touches on the hydration topic we discussed a good few pages back.

Lastly, Dr D_M had posted an excellent article last year about how to approach a mammoth race like a marathon. This is probably worth keeping in mind even if you approach those insane long LSRs of this and next weekend.

So - in summary, ahead are:
> Some minor inconveniences like 18 and 20 mile long runs. :eek:
> Then the tapering - lovely idea to run a little less, but it does funny things to the mind. You'll see what I mean.

> Then we'll talk about goal-setting and mentally preparing for the race..
> Then we'll talk about the day itself....
> And then .....

Good luck with your mileage this weekend, my novices!

bucketybuck · 29-09-2016 10:22PM

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

Anyone attempting this?
http://blog.strava.com/back-half-challenge/

Looks like its for US races only? Pity, I intend to run conservative at the start of DCM so I would have given it a shot!

scotindublin · 30-09-2016 08:01AM

Good luck to everyone on their long runs this weekend; the second and final 20 miler of the boards plan.

I am pushing mine back until Sunday this week due to family stuff tomorrow....planning on doing the marathon course from the Phoenix Park as I am not too familiar with the later section of the route.

crogerso · 30-09-2016 08:10AM

Positive: so far this week all runs completed as per Boards plan
Negative: I'm starting to get pain in the arch of my left foot! ðŸ˜”
All felt fine on Monday; well besides legs being tired from DCHM. Rest Tuesday and then Wednesday about 3 miles in I could feel strain on my calf. I have noticed that my calves, especially on my left leg have been tight recently so I have foam rolled and stretched to try combat this. Probably not as much as I should though. Since Wednesday it's feels like a constant strain in my calf and yesterday on my 5 miles I felt tightness my calf pain in my arch. I ran on grass for miles 2,3 & 4 which seemed to help but this morning I can feel strain doing nothing.
I had booked in for a sports massage yesterday but had to cancel due to a delivery so I am now booked in to see a physio tomorrow morning (no appointments this evening).
I'm slightly anxious about what they are going to say. It could be my runners contributing because I've only been using the one pair throughout training. I could get a new pair but I'm worried it's a little too close to DCM; anyone any thoughts??
Also my 20miler is planned for tomorrow afternoon but not sure if running after a physio session is advised? I suppose they will tell me.

Great to hear other injuries are improving, even if slowly! Good luck to all with LSRs tomorrow, here's hoping I'll be able for mine!

nop98 · 30-09-2016 08:28AM

crogerso wrote: »

Positive: so far this week all runs completed as per Boards plan
Negative: I'm starting to get pain in the arch of my left foot! ðŸ˜”
All felt fine on Monday; well besides legs being tired from DCHM. Rest Tuesday and then Wednesday about 3 miles in I could feel strain on my calf. I have noticed that my calves, especially on my left leg have been tight recently so I have foam rolled and stretched to try combat this. Probably not as much as I should though. Since Wednesday it's feels like a constant strain in my calf and yesterday on my 5 miles I felt tightness my calf pain in my arch. I ran on grass for miles 2,3 & 4 which seemed to help but this morning I can feel strain doing nothing.
I had booked in for a sports massage yesterday but had to cancel due to a delivery so I am now booked in to see a physio tomorrow morning (no appointments this evening).
I'm slightly anxious about what they are going to say. It could be my runners contributing because I've only been using the one pair throughout training. I could get a new pair but I'm worried it's a little too close to DCM; anyone any thoughts??
Also my 20miler is planned for tomorrow afternoon but not sure if running after a physio session is advised? I suppose they will tell me.

Great to hear other injuries are improving, even if slowly! Good luck to all with LSRs tomorrow, here's hoping I'll be able for mine!

Hi Crogerso - couple of thoughts. Definitely the right thing to do to get a rub-down and opinion on your niggles. FWIW I think a lot of runners training for a marathon have similar little issues at this stage - and the taper will help. I certainly did last year, especially the calves - but a visit to a physical therapist sorted that out. I started wearing compression socks too, which seemed to help - even tho I suspect that that was more placebo than anything else.

Let your physio advice you on your long run - maybe Sunday is an option, too? Be prepared to pull out if you feel the need to do so - don't force anything.

It's not too late to change runners but you would want to do that this week, to get them properly broken in - first on a couple of mid-week runs and then on your last long runs. It's not ideal but if needs must, you can still do it. Make sure to go to a reputable shop to get the best chance to get a perfect pair.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Maximus Alexander · 30-09-2016 08:33AM

I'm just ignoring all niggles at this stage unless they prevent me from running. I'm a responsible sort.

paddydriver · 30-09-2016 09:02AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm just ignoring all niggles at this stage unless they prevent me from running. I'm a responsible sort.

Yep, I just call it wear and tear.. Its just about getting to the start line now. October tomorrow!!!

kittyclaws · 30-09-2016 09:07AM

nop98 wrote: »

Hey kittyclaws, this is obviously your decision but I have to say, this kinda worries me - and I am not surprised that your physio advises against it.

I am no medical professional but the thought of "numbing" the signals your body is sending sounds completely wrong to me. These signals are being sent for a reason, and if that reason is that it can't cope with the strain you're putting on your body, then maybe it's better to listen and not put it under that much pressure. You might be running yourself long-term damage, particularly if you won't get the real feedback from your body.

As much as I'd like all of you to get to the start-line in tip-top shape, this unfortunately won't happen for all - and there will be more races after DCM. If you're struggling to get through a decent set of miles without pain, it's probably better to start resetting expectations, rather than going down this route.

Again, this is just my view, but I am sure I am not the only one. In my early running days I read a lot of the race-reports on TFB's blog (here). He writes sometimes that he's tempted to take painkillers during long races but almost invariably doesn't - for exactly the same right reasons.

Make sure to discuss this thoroughly with someone knowledgeable before actually going ahead...

I'm thinking in worst case scenario terms, hopefully it won't come to this. I think the adapted plan my physio done for me with higher miles / more recovery days is much better for me at this stage. On the Irish runner plan I've clocked up just under 500 miles since week 1, I think I have the milage in my legs, I just need to ideally get 2 more 18mile+ long runs in and I'll be happy. The pain isn't too bad that running is an absolute misery, I was just wondering if anyone had experience of a cortisone injection. I know one person who had one and then went on to do a 5 day cycling challenge and he swears by it, but the price he paid is well out of my budget and it isn't even guaranteed to work..

Thank you for your opinion - I need straight and honest talk at this stage

budhistmonk · 30-09-2016 09:51AM

crogerso wrote: »

Positive: so far this week all runs completed as per Boards plan
Negative: I'm starting to get pain in the arch of my left foot! ðŸ˜”
All felt fine on Monday; well besides legs being tired from DCHM. Rest Tuesday and then Wednesday about 3 miles in I could feel strain on my calf. I have noticed that my calves, especially on my left leg have been tight recently so I have foam rolled and stretched to try combat this. Probably not as much as I should though. Since Wednesday it's feels like a constant strain in my calf and yesterday on my 5 miles I felt tightness my calf pain in my arch. I ran on grass for miles 2,3 & 4 which seemed to help but this morning I can feel strain doing nothing.
I had booked in for a sports massage yesterday but had to cancel due to a delivery so I am now booked in to see a physio tomorrow morning (no appointments this evening).
I'm slightly anxious about what they are going to say. It could be my runners contributing because I've only been using the one pair throughout training. I could get a new pair but I'm worried it's a little too close to DCM; anyone any thoughts??
Also my 20miler is planned for tomorrow afternoon but not sure if running after a physio session is advised? I suppose they will tell me.

Great to hear other injuries are improving, even if slowly! Good luck to all with LSRs tomorrow, here's hoping I'll be able for mine!

Hi crogerso, I had a similar "negative" experience yesterday on my 5 miler. For me the run itself was fine but an hour or two after felt some minor dull pain under my foot near the heel end. Classic plantar fasciitis. For me it's really not too bad. I've iced it last night, took a neurofen for anti-inflamation and doing some toe/calf stretches and foam rolling. Hopefully it will clear up quickly. Not too worried about it (yet!) but will keep a close eye on it and will book a PT session.

Fingers crossed all goes well at the physio. Hopefully just a niggle that you nipped in the bud early. Would be great to hear how you get on.

I have about 280 miles in my current shoes (which I only started wearing in August) so bought a new pair which arrived yesterday (exact same model as don't want to change anything). I was planning to start wearing the new ones next week after this weekends LSR. I've still over a 100 miles to run before Oct 30th so I think plenty of time to break them in but now wondering if I should wear them on my LSR tomorrow (doing 15 miles). I know it's probably not ideal to wear a new pair for first time on an LSR but I am wondering if the extra cushioning of the new shoe will help. Any advice on whether to wear the old or new shoes on tomorrow's LSR greatly received.

bucketybuck · 30-09-2016 10:16AM

budhistmonk wrote: »

I have about 280 miles in my current shoes (which I only started wearing in August) so bought a new pair which arrived yesterday (exact same model as don't want to change anything). I was planning to start wearing the new ones next week after this weekends LSR. I've still over a 100 miles to run before Oct 30th so I think plenty of time to break them in but now wondering if I should wear them on my LSR tomorrow (doing 15 miles). I know it's probably not ideal to wear a new pair for first time on an LSR but I am wondering if the extra cushioning of the new shoe will help. Any advice on whether to wear the old or new shoes on tomorrow's LSR greatly received.

Don't do it!!!

I got a new pair of shoes a few weeks ago, exact same model that I was currently wearing and that I had had two or three pairs of in the past so I thought I was safe enough with them. I wore them around the house for a few days then put them on for the first time on a midweek 8k run.

They killed my knees. Very quickly into the run I got sharp pains in both knees that I hadn't had before. Went back home, stretched and decided to swap the new pair for my older pair and try again, and I finished the run without incident.

My point is, they might be the same model and you might well be fine in them, but don't risk it on a long run! Check them out first, try them on a shorter run, don't risk the possible injury! I was lucky the pain started quick, but the wrong shoes can cause problems so I can't imagine the trouble I would have caused if I'd worn them for any longer run.

As an aside, I brought those shoes back to Amphibian King in Ballymount, no problem at all swapping them out for a newer model at the same price!

budhistmonk · 30-09-2016 10:40AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Don't do it!!!

I got a new pair of shoes a few weeks ago, exact same model that I was currently wearing and that I had had two or three pairs of in the past so I thought I was safe enough with them. I wore them around the house for a few days then put them on for the first time on a midweek 8k run.

They killed my knees. Very quickly into the run I got sharp pains in both knees that I hadn't had before. Went back home, stretched and decided to swap the new pair for my older pair and try again, and I finished the run without incident.

My point is, they might be the same model and you might well be fine in them, but don't risk it on a long run! Check them out first, try them on a shorter run, don't risk the possible injury! I was lucky the pain started quick, but the wrong shoes can cause problems so I can't imagine the trouble I would have caused if I'd worn them for any longer run.

As an aside, I brought those shoes back to Amphibian King in Ballymount, no problem at all swapping them out for a newer model at the same price!

Thanks a million for that BB. I really appreciate the advice. I will now most definitely NOT be wearing my new shoes on my LSR tomorrow. I'll ease them in on shorter runs next week. This is why I love this thread.

I use Amphibian King Bray all the time. Brilliant customer service there. They spent an hour with me when I was in there in Aug. I bought these new ones online this time as I knew I had to stick with the same model as before for DCM and were a few quid cheaper. Will put the difference to a PT session

The Muppet · 30-09-2016 11:20AM

So both mentors are absent this weekend, what mischief can we get up to?

Maximus Alexander · 30-09-2016 11:23AM

The Muppet wrote: »

So both mentors are absent this weekend, what mischief can we get up to?

I'm gonna stay up all night and eat pizza.

scotindublin · 30-09-2016 11:43AM

Late night post beer drinking posts....anarachy from the novices.

RasTa · 30-09-2016 12:42PM

Just crossed the 430 miles mark in the runners. Not sure if I should replace now or after the Marathon(although they are stinking).

Just did 10 miles as I missed the 8 so did a little combo between the 8&5

20m on Sunday.

aquinn · 30-09-2016 12:45PM

The Muppet wrote: »

So both mentors are absent this weekend, what mischief can we get up to?

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm gonna stay up all night and eat pizza.

scotindublin wrote: »

Late night post beer drinking posts....anarachy from the novices.

That's what ye think and what do you mean BOTH MENTORS? They have an amazing backroom team. HUH!

RasTa wrote: »

Just crossed the 430 miles mark in the runners. Not sure if I should replace now or after the Marathon.

Just did 10 miles as I missed the 8 so did a little combo between the 8&5

20m on Sunday.

That's a lot of miles but then 30 days to go. Do you rotate runners or have the one pair?

The Black Oil · 30-09-2016 12:47PM

The Muppet wrote: »

So both mentors are absent this weekend, what mischief can we get up to?

ca1e82814fbabf4703590d43509c7f4c2c1ce2403a1e634162043cef0a894c7f.jpg

Maximus Alexander · 30-09-2016 12:57PM

aquinn wrote: »

That's what ye think and what do you mean BOTH MENTORS? They have an amazing backroom team. HUH!

Sketch lads!

The Muppet · 30-09-2016 12:59PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

aquinn wrote: »

That's what ye think and what do you mean BOTH MENTORS? They have an amazing backroom team. HUH!

Sketch lads!

Busted again, No late nigh pizza or beer I guess.

The Muppet · 30-09-2016 01:01PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

aquinn wrote: »

That's what ye think and what do you mean BOTH MENTORS? They have an amazing backroom team. HUH!

Sketch lads!

Busted again, No late nigh pizza or beer I guess.

aquinn · 30-09-2016 01:16PM

The Muppet wrote: »

Busted again, No late nigh pizza or beer I guess.

Not for ye anyway

Wubble Wubble · 30-09-2016 01:31PM

Not this evening maybe....tomorrow post LSR could be a different story!

(hopes he's not spotted by aquinn or her spies)

aquinn · 30-09-2016 01:34PM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Not this evening maybe....tomorrow post LSR could be a different story!

(hopes he's not spotted by aquinn or her spies)

Body is a temple people, this doesn't apply to those not currently training for a marathon.

All or nothing · 30-09-2016 01:35PM

budhistmonk wrote: »

Hi crogerso, I had a similar "negative" experience yesterday on my 5 miler. For me the run itself was fine but an hour or two after felt some minor dull pain under my foot near the heel end. Classic plantar fasciitis. For me it's really not too bad. I've iced it last night, took a neurofen for anti-inflamation and doing some toe/calf stretches and foam rolling. Hopefully it will clear up quickly. Not too worried about it (yet!) but will keep a close eye on it and will book a PT session.

Fingers crossed all goes well at the physio. Hopefully just a niggle that you nipped in the bud early. Would be great to hear how you get on.

I have about 280 miles in my current shoes (which I only started wearing in August) so bought a new pair which arrived yesterday (exact same model as don't want to change anything). I was planning to start wearing the new ones next week after this weekends LSR. I've still over a 100 miles to run before Oct 30th so I think plenty of time to break them in but now wondering if I should wear them on my LSR tomorrow (doing 15 miles). I know it's probably not ideal to wear a new pair for first time on an LSR but I am wondering if the extra cushioning of the new shoe will help. Any advice on whether to wear the old or new shoes on tomorrow's LSR greatly received.

Since my physio has diagnosed my heal pain as plantar fasciitis on Tuesday I have been doing various stretches for the calf and heal with a towel before I get out of bed every morning and after a run. I have also been rolling each heal for 10 mins each with a frozen water bottle. I did 8 miles last night,it was sore this morning but not too bad. You just need to manage it day to day. The long run at the weekend will tell a lot

All or nothing · 30-09-2016 01:40PM

I am heading to Dublin for the weekend. I will be staying in Clontarf, close to St Anne's park. Any suggestions for routes for my long run tomorrow. I should be doing 19 or 20 miles but I think I'll do around 14-15 as I have only done 2 runs so far this week. I would love to get some practice on the route but I don't know Dublin very well so I better just stick to Clontarf.

Wubble Wubble · 30-09-2016 01:45PM

aquinn wrote: »

Body is a temple people, this doesn't apply to those not currently training for a marathon.

It is indeed! My powers of recovery are fairly good....I'm even more pleased with getting a HM PB, when I remember 'twas but a week and a half after coming home from 8/9 days of copious food and drink (but I wouldn't recommend this as ideal training!!)

Tomorrow will probably be my last day/evening/night out before DCM. Sure only 4 weeks to go.

Coffee Fulled Runner · 30-09-2016 01:47PM

The other day I had a long discussion with some very experienced marathon runners from sub 3 hours to sub 2:30, so I was very interested in there views. I'll share it while it's fresh in my head and i can go back to this post closer to the day as a note to myself.

Its 4 weeks until our big day so it's very important now to cut out any junk that might be snacking on, particularly during our taper. Diet is as important as our training. During taper one guy always sets an alarm to make sure he goes to bed a hour early. Sleep makes a massive difference and is the best legal performance enhancing method around. It was said with tapering don't cut the amount of days you train rather the amount of time for the first week , taking days off can make you stale. The second week tapering take one extra day off. On the day before the race they do a 20 minutes shakeout after arriving in Dublin, I don't know if I'll do that yet. Spend as little time as possible at the expo just get your number and back to your hotel, ignore all the cool runnning stuff. Don't over eat when you get back there either just clean carbs for your final carb load.

For a few days before the race I'm told to take one electrolyte tablet a day, at worst it's expensive piss if myself body doesn't need it. On the morning of the race take one again and if over 15 degrees and humidity over 85 take a electrolyte during the race.

It's ok to be a little dehydrated racing, up to 3%. Around 150ml to 250ml of water per hour running is what most need. When passing a water station always grab a bottle but just rinse it about in your mouth for 20 seconds or so no need to always swallow, the same with the sports drinks. See the links below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23578290
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23851408

On gels.. Every 30-40 minutes if your stomach can handle that but make sure you can do that in a training run first. Try and hold the gel for 20 seconds in your mouth before you swallow it. Explained in the links above.

I have been training with high five gels but they recommend kinetica. I don't really understand this bit but they said high five only have two type of sugars with a 1:1 ratio while kinetica have 1:1:1 ratio meaning less likely to hit the wall... So a good gel the 3 sugars it takes to make carbs. Maybe someone with a better understanding can explain it...

I'm told to knock the coffee on the head during taper if I want to get any advantage from using gels with caffeine as I'll have built up a tolerance to caffeine. Also take the gels with caffeine in the first half of the marathon as it takes 60 minutes for the caffeine to kick in fully. Some will take a caffeine pill before the race rather than coffee as less liquid rolling about in the stomach. I don't know about trying that myself.

Don't put all your faith in the pacer they are human too. I followed my pacer in a half marathon like a robot and just switched off recently with no problems. But I guess that can all go wrong if the pacer is inexperienced. It's very important to know where you should be at each mile and if the first mile fells right slow down a little. Print out a pace band or write it on your arm with marker the miles and time. Sometimes the pacers can go out too fast and if you do that, those 15 or 20 seconds gain in the first few km can be the difference that will f**k your marathon up.

In the week before the race don't do anything you wouldn't normally do so if you don't get massages on your legs don't start now. There is a good chance the race won't all go according to plan so prepare yourself mentally for that to happen too.

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Comments