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So I emailed two TDs about 10PM off-licensing rule

  • 29-09-2016 09:36PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Commotion Ocean


    This is our correspondence:
    Dear Sirs and Madams,

    I am writing you regarding the legislation in Ireland which prohibits off-sales after 10 PM.

    Personally, I find it abhorrent in a free-market economy that as a grown adult I cannot purchase alcohol in a shop after 10 PM, even if it is open 24 hours a day. As a worker who has erratic working schedules with finishing times often well after 10 PM, I often find myself unable to purchase a bottle of wine for myself and my partner after work, should the mood take me.

    This legislation was introduced a number of years ago to "curb underage drinking", when in reality it was just to get more customers in the pub in my belief, as restricting off-sales will do nothing to prevent underage drinking.

    I have lived abroad for a significant amount of time in a European country not too far from here where there was no restriction on the off-sales of alcohol or the opening hours of licensed premises. I can assure you that chaos did not ensue.

    I am aware that my request for you to raise this in the Dáil may seem frivolous, but this is an issue which I feel should be addressed.

    Mise le meas, dfeo

    REPLY FROM RIGHT-WING TD

    Dear dfeo,

    Thank you for taking the time to email me.

    Licensing laws in the Republic are a direct response to alcohol consumption levels which are higher than the European averages. While it may be inconvenient, it is an effective tool from a public health perspective.

    I do not believe that these laws were changed to kerb underage drinking, given the high compliance with age verification processes in retailers and the fines associated with none compliance.

    Regrettably, we have a difficult relationship with alcohol in this country and in broad terms, policy from the Department of Health is under constant review.

    REPLY FROM LEFT-WING TD

    Hi dfeo,

    Thanks for your email, I think it is a throw back to the days when we allowed the Catholic Church to guide our legislators and it certainly seems a bit backward. Not sure exactly which minister has the responsibility here, it could be Finance maybe you should send them a letter as well and ask if there are any plans to change it.. Although I doubt they have any desire to do anything, they are a very weak government now and won't be rocking the boat where they don't have to. You would have more luck going on to a radio show to get people to talk about it because without public pressure this lot wont do a thing.

    All the best

    MY RESPONSE BACK TO THE RIGHT-WING TD

    Thank you for your reply and apologies for the delay in getting back to you again. If you believe that alcohol should be restricted after 10 PM due to our "excess alcohol consumption" then why is it OK to enter a pub after this time?

    Could you please elaborate on how you believe that off-license restrictions will curtail alcohol consumption? I am also communicating with another TD in the area who strongly agrees with my viewpoint.

    Kind Regards,
    dfeo

    I have been ignored since my last reply .... over a week ago :P

    Does anyone else feel the same about this or am I just a big alco? :P

    Do you agree with the off-licensing hours restrictions? 166 votes

    10 PM Good
    0%
    10 PM Bad
    100%
    rameireDeagolmobbyDiddy KongdelricyoDuckSliceunkleroscoBizzyCCatInABoxshamrock2004JupiterKidatilladehunmdebetsSharknoseRoyalMarinehomerjay2005Ronaldinhobarry181091boombangfrink 166 votes


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭lertsnim


    Who are the TD's?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Commotion Ocean


    Am I allowed to say? I don't want to breach data protection, because the emails are verbatim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    I think your target market for this thread are on a ....
    urgent erand. Should be around later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Who's the one who doesn't know their kerb from their curb?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,779 ✭✭✭✭Ol' Donie


    Stupid, stupid law.

    I always assumed it was designed to get people to go to the pub.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,162 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Yes it's a pain in the rear. But as usual in this country the majority without alcohol issues are punished so as not to offend the minority with issues.

    Have any studies been done to confirm that the reduced off sales have lead to an decrease in anti social behaviour or other alcohol induced problems?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    dfeo wrote: »
    REPLY FROM RIGHT-WING TD

    I do not believe that these laws were changed to kerb underage drinking, given the high compliance with age verification processes in retailers and the fines associated with none compliance.

    Funny. I recall that being reason numero uno trotted out to justify it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,162 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I'd be reducing the opening hours further if I could and I'd increase the vat on alcohol from off licenses and shops to pay for cleaning up the empty bottles and cans of beer littered all over our towns and cities. Similar tax on takeaways for their litter.

    Would it not be better to enforce the litter laws instead? The people who dump litter on the streets don't differentiate between alcohol/fast food and other litter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Which tds were they


    ***don't mean to upset you op....but they were most likely drunk when replyibg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    dfeo wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel the same about this or am I just a big alco? :P

    I agree 100%. It's just a cynical move to prop up the pub trade. If it was actually about consumption then pubs would have the same restrictions.

    Here's the data, based on OECD/WHO stats
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

    Above average but not the worst and look at the likes of Italy down the bottom of OECD consumption, which has very few restrictions and low prices and a more mature drinking culture as a result. That is the type of example Irl needs to try and follow.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Commotion Ocean


    Which tds were they


    ***don't mean to upset you op....but
    Who are the TD's?

    Can I legally say it here? The emails are verbatim. I don't want to breach data laws.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭hognef


    10 PM Bad
    dfeo wrote: »
    This is our correspondence:









    I have been ignored since my last reply .... over a week ago :P

    Does anyone else feel the same about this or am I just a big alco? :P

    It could be much worse (or better, depending on your viewpoint): In Norway, you can't buy alcohol after 8pm on weekdays, after 6pm on Saturdays, and not at all on Sundays. And normal shops
    can't sell anything stronger than mid-strength beer (4.75% or thereabouts). Average consumption is significantly lower than here, arguably at least partially due to the restricted availability.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    dfeo wrote: »
    Can I legally say it here? The emails are verbatim. I don't want to breach data laws.

    I'd say your on safe ground. ...their public representives and nothing seemingly incriminating/bad on them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    I'd lovely to see evidence of the restrictions having actually reduced consumption.

    I'd have pubs and offies open whenever they like.

    I think the fear of missed opportunity is a big driver in sales and removing restrictions would just make things more normal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Where is the first lad getting the consumption nonsense from ? Sure is the ridiculous tax on drink to stop us drinking ourselves to death. They admitting tax does not work ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Do left wing TDs blame the church for everything now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Do left wing TDs blame the church for everything now?

    Irony is the church in other jurisdictions used to produce all the beer. Don't think the monks did here though. Anyone correct me on this ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Minimum Unit Price is next up.

    And then the booze cruises, and Sainsbugs in NI. Hey ho.

    Sorry if I had a Nanny what a State she would be in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Minimum Unit Price is next up.

    And then the booze cruises, and Sainsbugs in NI. Hey ho.

    That would be illegal under the EUJ ruling on competition. Odd they seem to be able to challenge that and not the WFD.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,895 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    hognef wrote: »
    It could be much worse (or better, depending on your viewpoint): In Norway, you can't buy alcohol after 8pm on weekdays, after 6pm on Saturdays, and not at all on Sundays. And normal shops
    can't sell anything stronger than mid-strength beer (4.75% or thereabouts). Average consumption is significantly lower than here, arguably at least partially due to the restricted availability.

    Or maybe the reality is more like this- http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/06/30/norwegians-drink-more-than-ever/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,229 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Who's the one who doesn't know their kerb from their curb?

    because he could be a k crawler, another activity they want to curb, i.e. kerb crawl curbing:D

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    That would be illegal under the EUJ ruling on competition. Odd they seem to be able to challenge that and not the WFD.

    Scotland still waiting.....

    The ECJ kicked it back to Scotland and said they should raise taxes as MUP was against EU free trade rules. It is now before the Court of Session in Edinburgh to decide which way to go. If they insist on MUP it could end up in the Supreme Court in London.

    Interesting times ahead.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,016 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    The reduced opening hours legislation was introduce in 2008 I believe, when consumption was on average 13.5 lpa. The 2015 figures are pretty much the exact same according to HSE reports (if you exclude people who do not drink).

    Getting figures can be difficult as each report has slightly differing definitions but it would appear there has been little if any reduction in consumption over the last 10 years.

    NiallBoo wrote: »
    I'd lovely to see evidence of the restrictions having actually reduced consumption.

    I'd have pubs and offies open whenever they like.

    I think the fear of missed opportunity is a big driver in sales and removing restrictions would just make things more normal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,596 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    You should have asked them why a country with much cheaper alcohol and the wider availability of it like Spain has far less of a problem with alcohol related issues than we do with the most expensive alcohol in the EU? Clearly pricing has feck all to do it any problems.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Scotland still waiting.....

    The ECJ kicked it back to Scotland and said they should raise taxes as MUP was against EU free trade rules. It is now before the Court of Session in Edinburgh to decide which way to go. If they insist on MUP it could end up in the Supreme Court in London.

    Interesting times ahead.

    Aye, I would like TD's to make decelerations of family and them being in the pub trade. You know for clarity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,024 ✭✭✭✭irishgeo


    I just get a carry out from the pub.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    You should have asked them why a country with much cheaper alcohol and the wider availability of it like Spain has far less of a problem with alcohol related issues than we do with the most expensive alcohol in the EU? Clearly pricing has feck all to do it any problems.

    Probably because public drunkenness (apart from big Fiestas) is totally frowned upon. And the police take no prisoners either.

    It is just not the done thing for Spanish people to be drunk and disorderly. Pity about the tourists though, I don't how they put up with that.

    And also, because alcohol is available anytime there is less pressure to get hammered within the window of when you go out and closing time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    Personally, I think the 10.30am one is even more stupid. Can't buy a bottle of wine when I'm doing the shop on a Saturday morning.
    It's nonsensical nonsense.


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    Personally, I think the 10.30am one is even more stupid. Can't buy a bottle of wine when I'm doing the shop on a Saturday morning.
    It's nonsensical nonsense.

    And 12.30 on a Sunday :rolleyes:

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,016 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    I would like to see a poll added to gauge opinion on this ridiculous legislation. Is that possible lads?

    Simple poll - 10PM good, 10PM bad, I own a pub/no comment.


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