PTSB: money stolen from account what are the odds of getting it back?

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 12:44AM #1

Hey, I just randomly checked my Internet banking page and realized someone took out 370 euro marked as POS Stars which I assume is poker stars.

As I called bank - while talking to them, another 50 euro was withdrawn so I guess it happened over past few hours, all transactions are still pending.

What are the odds of getting my money back?

jackinthemix94 · 29-09-2016 12:45AM

Definitely should get the money back, are you kidding? Have the card cancelled and the money will be given back.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 12:49AM

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

Definitely should get the money back, are you kidding? Have the card cancelled and the money will be given back.

They blocked card and said they will send new one.

Kristopherus · 29-09-2016 12:51AM

arleitiss wrote: »

They blocked card and said they will send new one.

And stay away from Poker Stars:D:D:D.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 12:56AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

And stay away from Poker Stars:D:D:D.

I don't play poker.
Oddly the amounts are weird:
55, 50, 85, 82, 80

3DataModem · 29-09-2016 05:56AM

Hi OP,

That doesn't look like a PokerStars descriptor to me (I work there).

Do you mind me asking if you have ever used the card on PokerStars? I'm guessing not from your post.

Hasmunch · 29-09-2016 06:14AM

I think POS stand for Point of Sale, so Stars could be a shop of some sort I'm guessing.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 08:51AM

3DataModem wrote: »

Hi OP,

That doesn't look like a PokerStars descriptor to me (I work there).

Do you mind me asking if you have ever used the card on PokerStars? I'm guessing not from your post.

No, never have.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 08:52AM

Hasmunch wrote: »

I think POS stand for Point of Sale, so Stars could be a shop of some sort I'm guessing.

So someone copied card somehow?

Owryan · 29-09-2016 09:00AM

Hi, happened to me a couple of years ago. My card was used to purchase flights to Gibraltar.

Rang ptsb and made a report, all the bank needed was a ref number and a stamp by the gardai on a form.

Got my money back within a week. Found them to be v helpful, all I had to do was show that I didn't make the purchase and that I didn't give anyone my card

Ericdravancrow · 29-09-2016 09:03AM

The unusual amounts indicate its possibly a foreign currency, happened to me. The bank spotted it before I did, so they blocked any payments and cancelled my card.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 09:06AM

Owryan wrote: »

Hi, happened to me a couple of years ago. My card was used to purchase flights to Gibraltar.

Rang ptsb and made a report, all the bank needed was a ref number and a stamp by the gardai on a form.

Got my money back within a week. Found them to be v helpful, all I had to do was show that I didn't make the purchase and that I didn't give anyone my card

I got card blocked, should I go to Garda as well?

BuffyBot · 29-09-2016 09:55AM

arleitiss wrote: »

I got card blocked, should I go to Garda as well?

POS is point of sale. "Stars" or whatever comes after would be the name of the merchant taking the payment. The card could possibly have been copied physically - it's impossible for anyone here to confirm that for you.

You only need go to the Gardaí if PTSB request you do so.

There is no automatic right to having transactions refunded. If the bank feel you've been obviously negligent in some way they can refuse/dispute your claim. It's unlikely, but there is no 100% guarantee.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 09:58AM

BuffyBot wrote: »

POS is point of sale.

You only need go to the Gardaí if PTSB request you do so.

There is no automatic right to having transactions refunded. If the bank feel you've been obviously negligent in some way they can refuse/dispute your claim. It's unlikely, but there is no 100% guarantee.

So it's definetely purchases using copied card?

BuffyBot · 29-09-2016 09:58AM

arleitiss wrote: »

So it's definetely purchases using copied card?

No. No one here can know for certain.

RossieMan · 29-09-2016 10:07AM

It could be a family or friend. No one can tell you exactly what or who has taken your money. It'll be investigated. Most times, it's returned. You need to think did you receive any emails asking you to "verify details" in the last few months. PayPal is the one most people fall for.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 10:42AM

RossieMan wrote: »

It could be a family or friend. No one can tell you exactly what or who has taken your money. It'll be investigated. Most times, it's returned. You need to think did you receive any emails asking you to "verify details" in the last few months. PayPal is the one most people fall for.

No I did not, card is on me at all times and I don't open any scam emails.
I did notice few odd things recently though:

1) Few days ago I walked into a petrol station and guy behind counter gave me card machine from behind the till even though there was two perfectly working machines on front of the till, the one he gave was just randomly from behind counter and his hands were very very shaky. But it's probably nothing.

2) I recently put card into ATM and entered pin, when I pressed to withdraw cash - it didnt give cash and just spew the card out without any errors, when I tried again - it worked.

3) ATM in Lucan Village had camera attached literally right under the card slot, but I am not ATM expert so I dont know if that should be there or not.

Spocker · 29-09-2016 12:01PM

arleitiss wrote: »

No I did not, card is on me at all times and I don't open any scam emails.
I did notice few odd things recently though:

1) Few days ago I walked into a petrol station and guy behind counter gave me card machine from behind the till even though there was two perfectly working machines on front of the till, the one he gave was just randomly from behind counter and his hands were very very shaky. But it's probably nothing.

2) I recently put card into ATM and entered pin, when I pressed to withdraw cash - it didnt give cash and just spew the card out without any errors, when I tried again - it worked.

3) ATM in Lucan Village had camera attached literally right under the card slot, but I am not ATM expert so I dont know if that should be there or not.

All suspicious to be honest. Does the garage in 1) have Star in its name? Worth mentioning to the Bank (or Gardai) about the ATM in Lucan with the camera

RossieMan · 29-09-2016 12:19PM

Camera below the card slot is diffidently not right for a start.
Should be no cameras that can see what you're entering.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 12:24PM

Spocker wrote: »

All suspicious to be honest. Does the garage in 1) have Star in its name? Worth mentioning to the Bank (or Gardai) about the ATM in Lucan with the camera

No it does not have star at all, it's just one of the topaz stations.

H3llR4iser · 29-09-2016 12:40PM

arleitiss wrote: »

2) I recently put card into ATM and entered pin, when I pressed to withdraw cash - it didnt give cash and just spew the card out without any errors, when I tried again - it worked.

3) ATM in Lucan Village had camera attached literally right under the card slot, but I am not ATM expert so I dont know if that should be there or not.

Those two are big alarm bells; The camera especially - there should be no camera anywhere INSIDE the ATM.

My parents and brother got their cards cloned in Italy years ago, one specific ATM was a hotspot for these things - skimmer device and camera.

For this reason, I always double and triple check; Anything odd with the machine - like the card slot "sticking out" or not being firmly held in place, cameras or an "odd" feeling keyboard (some fraudsters use an "overlay keyboard" to steal the PIN), do not use the ATM.

That said, a few months ago somebody tried to order Domino's with my card...in the US! I'm with Ulster Bank and I have to commend their anti-fraud system, as it caught the issue instantly and blocked the transaction(s).

It was a similar situation - not done anything unusual with the card and it was a brand new one, only got in the post two months earlier; Used it normally, same places, same websites, nothing "shady" or remotely unusual about it, but somehow somebody got the number and CVV2. Total mystery to this day - most likely, it was a "data leak" from some internet payment provider in my case.

arleitiss · 29-09-2016 12:42PM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Those two are big alarm bells; The camera especially - there should be no camera anywhere INSIDE the ATM.

My parents and brother got their cards cloned in Italy years ago, one specific ATM was a hotspot for these things - skimmer device and camera.

For this reason, I always double and triple check; Anything odd with the machine - like the card slot "sticking out" or not being firmly held in place, cameras or an "odd" feeling keyboard (some fraudsters use an "overlay keyboard" to steal the PIN), do not use the ATM.

That said, a few months ago somebody tried to order Domino's with my card...in the US! I'm with Ulster Bank and I have to commend their anti-fraud system, as it caught the issue instantly and blocked the transaction(s).

It was a similar situation - not done anything unusual with the card and it was a brand new one, only got in the post two months earlier; Used it normally, same places, same websites, nothing "shady" or remotely unusual about it, but somehow somebody got the number and CVV2. Total mystery to this day - most likely, it was a "data leak" from some internet payment provider in my case.

Can someone make/craft a physical card using online details only though? I mean magnetic strip needs to be cloned no?

H3llR4iser · 29-09-2016 02:03PM

arleitiss wrote: »

Can someone make/craft a physical card using online details only though? I mean magnetic strip needs to be cloned no?

Only if you want to physically use the card at a store; Online, all you need is the number, expiration date and "Security Code". Contrary to popular belief, a lot of online payment processors (if not the absolute vast majority) don't actually check the other data they ask you about - name, address etc.

In your case, "POS" as "Point of Service" may not necessarily indicate a physical device was used to "swipe" the card - I believe I've seen online payments come up as "POS" on my statements before.

seamus · 29-09-2016 02:26PM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Only if you want to physically use the card at a store; Online, all you need is the number, expiration date and "Security Code". Contrary to popular belief, a lot of online payment processors (if not the absolute vast majority) don't actually check the other data they ask you about - name, address etc.

In your case, "POS" as "Point of Service" may not necessarily indicate a physical device was used to "swipe" the card - I believe I've seen online payments come up as "POS" on my statements before.

There are actually two security factors to taking online payments;

The first is the actual card details - number, expiry and CVV2. If these details are correct, the payment processor will authorise the payment on the card.

The second security factor is a code indicating how well the other details - name & address - match the details on the card. "Cardholder not present" is the process here.
It is the responsibility of the person taking the payment to observe these codes and decide how to proceed. Some payment takers will ignore the codes and take the payment. Some will apply them rigorously. Either way, the payment taker then sends a second request to the processor confirming the transaction or telling them to void it.

In the event that a fraudulent payment is detected, the card issuer can look at the code returned by that transaction and decide if the payment taker is out of luck. If nothing matched, then tough sh1t, you screwed up, you should have been more vigilant. If everything matched, then the card issuer will probably let it slide.

The second is actually a much bigger challenge than one would think. Addresses in particular are difficult - people often use the wrong address when signing up for things or making payments. There is also no one standard way of taking an address, so whatever way you give your address in a payment form might be rearranged and mangled by the taker. Or a cardholder uses the wrong address or a mistyped address. More details here for the nerdy.

But even names can be crazy. Someone might have a double-barrelled name with a hyphen, but their bank's systems don't allow a hyphen, so the name on the card and the name they give you doesn't match. Or they call themselves James on the card, but write "Jim" in the payment form. And so forth.

Anyway, that's a very long-winded way of agreeing, yes, for online payments all someone really needs is the card number, expiry and CVV2. Whether an online shop will accept any old nonsense for the card details is up to them.

H3llR4iser · 29-09-2016 02:43PM

seamus wrote: »

...
Anyway, that's a very long-winded way of agreeing, yes, for online payments all someone really needs is the card number, expiry and CVV2. Whether an online shop will accept any old nonsense for the card details is up to them.

Yeah, that's basically what I had originally written in my own post but decided to leave it out - long story short, if all processors did a thorough check of the details, 90% of the people would become instantly unable to pay online between typing their address wrong, the banks using odd definitions (e.g. my address starts with "apartment", but the bank listed it as "flat") and whatnot

Owryan · 29-09-2016 04:23PM

arleitiss wrote: »

I got card blocked, should I go to Garda as well?

PTSB told me i needed to get a form they emailed me signed and stamped by a garda. Basically it confirmed i was reporting the money as being stolen.

At the time the only place i had used the card was in the atm in Carlow IT. Gardai found a false front on it that skimmed cards. Got my money back as it showed i wasnt negligent.

Good luck with getting your money back.

PTSB: money stolen from account what are the odds of getting it back?

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