2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Christy42 · 23-09-2016 12:23AM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You forgot to mention Trump's polices would actually help African Americans

Just a reminder that this still hasn't been backed up.

I have gotten a reply saying that past governments have ignored these people which I would not disagree with. That does not back up the above statement however.

oik · 23-09-2016 01:00AM

Reminds me of the this American life podcast I listened to around the beginning of the year. Young gay guy was campaigning for Trump at his local uni. Guy had a tough upbringing, adopted at 15 or 16 and his adoptive parents were Cruz supporters.

The reason he followed Trump so much was because he was always pro SSM. After Trump "came out" as anti SSM they went back to the young lad again, he just swatted it away and excused it. The cult of Trump won out which I found a bit sad tbh.

Sounds like a smart kid. Everyone and their dog knows that Trump's apparent pivot to "I support traditional marriage" without any concomitant commitment to overturn a Supreme Court decision on the matter was a sign of one thing and one thing only, he wanted to win the Republican nomination but doesn't want to make SSM an issue.

Trump's position: "The Supreme Court has issued an opinion on this. Same-sex marriage is an issue that should have been decided by the states." If ever there was a "it's none of my business" answer...

oik · 23-09-2016 01:03AM

re: Trump's made in china hat.

That's not a Trump hat, it's a fake. The real ones have a rope across the front and the lettering is smaller.

oik · 23-09-2016 01:08AM

I fail to see how this describes how Trump's policies will help black people in the US.

Depending on what you consider help, NYC's stop and frisk policy reduced crime by about 80%. If similar numbers could be achieved in cities like Chicago and Baltimore then Trump will have done more for blacks than any president since LBJ.

Some people don't like stop and frisk because they think it allows police to unfairly target black people, others like it because it reduces crime and results in less inner city blacks getting shot.

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 01:11AM

oik wrote: »

Sounds like a smart kid. Everyone and their dog knows that Trump's apparent pivot to "I support traditional marriage" without any concomitant commitment to overturn a Supreme Court decision on the matter was a sign of one thing and one thing only, he wanted to win the Republican nomination

Trump has stated unequivocally that he will appoint conservative justices to the supreme court that will overturn the same sex marriage decision.

I believe its even in the GOP manifesto published a few months ago too.

oik · 23-09-2016 01:13AM

I mean, what I'm getting at here is that you're saying that, but in fact you actually have no effin' clue. I welcome you to prove me wrong however. Which policy of Trumps will help inner city minorities? Stop and Frisk nationwide? Mass deportation? Carpet-bombing Syria?

Do you know all those immigrant jobs that "Americans don't want to do any more"? Do you know who used to do those jobs?

oik · 23-09-2016 01:18AM

Trump has stated unequivocally that he will appoint conservative justices to the supreme court that will overturn the same sex marriage decision.

I believe its even in the GOP manifesto published a few months ago too.

That does not surprise me one bit. He goes on Pat Robertson's Christian network and promises to appoint a judge to make a certain ruling.

The beauty of that promise is that it's a no lose scenario. If gets points for promising and if he doesn't deliver, well the judge is independent of him anyway so what can he do?

Pretty genius stuff.

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 01:25AM

oik wrote: »

That does not surprise me one bit. He goes on Pat Robertson's Christian network and promises to appoint a judge to make a certain ruling.

The beauty of that promise is that it's a no lose scenario. If gets points for promising and if he doesn't deliver, well the judge is independent of him anyway so what can he do?

Pretty genius stuff.

"Pretty genius stuff"? Its moronic. He's going to try and pull a fast one on the Senate because he actually doesn't want to appoint conservatives?

What reason would he have to do that? Do you understand how a supreme court nomination works?

The president makes the appointment and the senate confirms the nominee by vote. He has to have the support of the senate.

oik · 23-09-2016 01:37AM

"Pretty genius stuff"? Its moronic. He's going to try and pull a fast one on the Senate because he actually doesn't want to appoint conservatives?

What reason would he have to do that? Do you understand how a supreme court nomination works?

The president makes the appointment and the senate confirms the nominee by vote. He has to have the support of the senate.

Jesus wept. Apparently I should just spell it out for you.

If Trump nominates a judge, any judge, and that judge doesn't vote to overturn the decision the blame will be placed on the judge, not Trump.

You accused me of lacking comprehension skills but yours aren't very sharp yourself. You should hold off on your accusations in future.

oik · 23-09-2016 01:41AM

Anyone who thinks Trump is going to waste an ounce of his precious little political capital on anything to do with SSM really has a one dimensional view of politics.

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 01:47AM

oik wrote: »

Jesus wept. Apparently I should just spell it out for you.

If Trump nominates a judge, any judge, and that judge doesn't vote to overturn the decision the blame will be placed on the judge, not Trump.

You accused me of lacking comprehension skills but yours aren't very sharp yourself. You should hold off on your accusations in future.

You're not grasping an important fact. He's not going to nominate a judge who is pro-ssm.

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 01:49AM

oik wrote: »

You accused me of lacking comprehension skills but yours aren't very sharp yourself. You should hold off on your accusations in future.

I never accused you of anything.

oik · 23-09-2016 01:58AM

You're not grasping an important fact. He's not going to nominate a judge who is pro-ssm.

There's a whole raft of facts you're failing to grasp. Like the fact that the US supreme court has never in its history voted to revoke a right under the Equal Protections clause meaning that SSM - barring some extremely unpopular and unprecedented move - is settled law.

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 02:10AM

oik wrote: »

Like the fact that the US supreme court has never in its history voted to revoke a right under the Equal Protections clause meaning that SSM - barring some extremely unpopular and unprecedented move - is settled law.

The Supreme court can over turn a previous decision. Trump has said he would like it left to the states.

Additionally, there's campaign finance reform issues, abortion, and gun control to be considered.
There are a lot of reason conservatives dont want liberals to be appointed to the supreme court. Which means they'll try and keep a tight hold on trump's nominations.

oik · 23-09-2016 02:29AM

The Supreme court can over turn a previous decision. Trump has said he would like it left to the states.

Additionally, there's campaign finance reform issues, abortion, and gun control to be considered.
There are a lot of reason conservatives dont want liberals to be appointed to the supreme court. Which means they'll try and keep a tight hold on trump's nominations.

Clearly you think you're the only one who understands how the law works. Your barely conceal conceit doesn't do you any credit. Everyone knows a court can overturn decisions. I'm telling you they have never taken away a right under the Equal Protection clause and it's frankly paranoid to think they will.

Trump has already released the names of 11 potential nominees. 5 have previous anti-LGBT records and the other 6 have no record either way. All are conservative. Generally a good thing imo. 9 unelected people should generally not be overextending their powers and creating laws.

As for campaign finance reform, that's something I used to be in favour of, until I realised the only reason Wall Street favourites the Democrats want it is because the media (with the exception of FOX) is effectively an arm of the Democratic party in all but name. Campaign finance reform just means granting even more power to these massively powerful and highly distrusted (10% approval ratings) corporations. The only way I'd support campaign finance reform is if major news channels had to be impartial, but that's stepping on the 1st amendment twice.

Overheal · 23-09-2016 02:39AM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I've already mentioned that the Democrats have failed to deliver any benefits to African Americans or indeed many Americans across the country. The elite can slag the lwr classes as much as they like. The more they do the more the extremists will come out. Trump has energized a huge number of people. He won the GOP candidacy and he is up against poor opposition. All I have been saying this entire time is that Trump's notoriety has been greatly exaggerated.

None of which answers the question at hand. You're still just deflecting. It seems you have no answer to the question, which leads one to wonder why you would make the claim in the first place.

Overheal · 23-09-2016 02:45AM

oik wrote: »

Do you know all those immigrant jobs that "Americans don't want to do any more"? Do you know who used to do those jobs?

So inner city blacks are suddenly going to end up in rural agriculture picking crops? Doing construction work for less than the minimum wage? No benefits? That appears to be your insinuation, which is pretty ridiculous.not to mention there are real economic setbacks to deportation that don't include all of the social fallout of removing 11 million people.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-18/here-s-what-the-u-s-economy-would-look-like-if-trump-deported-undocumented-immigrants

It still doesn't clearly answer the original claim that Trump is somehow good for African Americans. It's probably a big part of why they don't support him beyond all that much.

oik · 23-09-2016 02:59AM

So inner city blacks are suddenly going to end up in rural agriculture picking crops? Doing construction work for less than the minimum wage? No benefits? That appears to be your insinuation, which is pretty ridiculous.not to mention there are real economic setbacks to deportation that don't include all of the social fallout of removing 11 million people.

It still doesn't clearly answer the original claim that Trump is somehow good for African Americans. It's probably a big part of why they don't support him beyond all that much.

How about doing construction work for more than the minimum wage? Blacks used to do almost all the construction work in the southern united states. It was a black profession. What happened?

I made no such insinuations. Your debating style is basically to just put words in the opponent's mouth. I know you thought you were being witty, but I've no time for that BS

If Trump was a Democrat he'd be winning the black vote regardless of his policies. He's an an automatic disadvantage and he's overperforming compared to past republicans.

Overheal · 23-09-2016 04:12AM

oik wrote: »

How about doing construction work for more than the minimum wage? Blacks used to do almost all the construction work in the southern united states. It was a black profession. What happened?

Do you have proof illegal workers in construction make above the minimum wage; that blacks used to do almost all the construction work in the southern US or that construction was a "black profession?"

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 05:46AM

oik wrote: »

Clearly you think you're the only one who understands how the law works. Your barely conceal conceit doesn't do you any credit.

"Your barely conceal conceit"?

Seriously?

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 05:56AM

oik wrote: »

Trump has already released the names of 11 potential nominees. 5 have previous anti-LGBT records and the other 6 have no record either way. All are conservative.

So trump will appoint conservative judges? And this in your opinion is "genius stuff" is it?

InTheTrees · 23-09-2016 05:59AM

oik wrote: »

If Trump was a Democrat he'd be winning the black vote regardless of his policies. He's an an automatic disadvantage and he's overperforming compared to past republicans.

No he isn't.

No other candidate in modern history has had less support from African Americans than trump.

conditioned games · 23-09-2016 06:04AM

InTheTrees wrote: »

No he isn't.

No other candidate in modern history has had less support from African Americans than trump.

Mitt Romney got 2% while Trumps support among Blacks jumped up to 20% after visit to black church in Flint. I'd be surprised if Clinton shows up to first debate given how sick she is.

Overheal · 23-09-2016 06:27AM

conditioned games wrote: »

Mitt Romney got 2% while Trumps support among Blacks jumped up to 20% after visit to black church in Flint. I'd be surprised if Clinton shows up to first debate given how sick she is.

Pneumonia doesn't take very long to recover from, given rest it can be gone in days.

As for that bump in the polls? Down to 5.2%

http://cesrusc.org/election/

conditioned games · 23-09-2016 07:31AM

Overheal wrote: »

Pneumonia doesn't take very long to recover from, given rest it can be gone in days.

As for that bump in the polls? Down to 5.2%

http://cesrusc.org/election/

'' pneumonia" oh ya that's very believable. That would explain all her health related problems over the past 3 months. Hope she gets better soon.

Count Dooku · 23-09-2016 07:34AM

With so massive outspending in advertisement

Clinton nearly cries why she is not 50 points ahead

It looks like she doesn't really understand that she is the worse possible candidate from Democratic Party

Overheal · 23-09-2016 08:20AM

conditioned games wrote: »

'' pneumonia" oh ya that's very believable. That would explain all her health related problems over the past 3 months. Hope she gets better soon.

Some of the speculation is ridiculous and belongs in CT.

Black Swan · 23-09-2016 08:43AM

Count Dooku wrote: »

With so massive outspending in advertisement

Clinton nearly cries why she is not 50 points ahead

Yes Hillary Clinton has had to spend millions USD to reach potential voters, but this has been common practice during past presidential election years. Nothing unusual there. But this has not been the case for Celebrity Apprentice (President) Donald Trump, who cries and cries with his supporters about how the so-called biased news media has been critical towards Trump with their extraordinary coverage, especially when he so frequently says "outrageous" and "sensationalist" things that draw the media to give him air time and print. Of course those few of us that have read page 56 of Trump's 1987 The Art of the Deal, know that Trump has been successfully manipulating the press in accordance with his Deals playbook plan to get extraordinary air time and print for free. The words "outrageous" and "sensationalist" things to say to manipulate the press are on that page.

Peist2007 · 23-09-2016 09:21AM

Overheal wrote: »

Would you like that in spoken word, prose, musical duet? I really don't understand why it's necessary to hear her read aloud what is written.

I will ignore all of your responses to this post unless they are in the form of youtube vlogs of yourself in your bedroom with a wooly hat on. #HowYourLogicSoundsWhen you have to defend your camp by saying that, you've pretty much admitted defeat.

So, nothing? I don't think it is too much to ask of a candidate to hear them set out their policies. Are you saying there is no footage anywhere of Clinton setting out what her plans are as President? I'm not interested in what a team of people came up with with the help of PR Firms on her website.

You saying there is nothing out there? Amazing.

Peist2007 · 23-09-2016 09:23AM

Suryavarman wrote: »

Hahahahahaha. You should check out the issues section of Hillary Clinton's website where she goes into great detail on many policy areas.

Hillary cannot even use emails. I hardly think she designed her website. I am sure the right people were employed to ensure that every word on that site garners votes. You know what i am asking for - any footage of Hillary setting out policy? Simple request, not sure why you were laughing manically above. Guess you must be really invested in this. Post up some links there

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Comments