It's not a pyramid scheme...

Going Forward · 21-09-2016 12:48PM

Everyone a bit shy naming these scams?

I remember in the early nineties there was a rash of them in the SE.

Lots of guys who'd never worn a suit before rocked up and invited me to join them in the pursuit of a dream.

I went to a meeting in a hotel and everyone was very enthusiastic...

Didn't bite, it all smelled from the start.
Trying to remember the name of it, NSA, National Safety Associates or some other important sounding monicker.

All fizzled out after 6 months, and the boys were back in jeans and Ts.

They were preyed upon, don't know if any lost money or how much.

I'd thought it had died out.

It would surely be difficult to carry off something like this today what with the internet?

ohnonotgmail · 21-09-2016 12:56PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Everyone a bit shy naming these scams?

I remember in the early nineties there was a rash of them in the SE.

Lots of guys who'd never worn a suit before rocked up and invited me to join them in the pursuit of a dream.

I went to a meeting in a hotel and everyone was very enthusiastic...

Didn't bite, it all smelled from the start.
Trying to remember the name of it, NSA, National Safety Associates or some other important sounding monicker.

All fizzled out after 6 months, and the boys were back in jeans and Ts.

They were preyed upon, don't know if any lost money or how much.

I'd thought it had died out.

It would surely be difficult to carry off something like this today what with the internet?

has the internet made people smarter and less gullible?

21-09-2016 01:31PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

has the internet made people smarter and less gullible?

Exactly this....

I'd say in this day and age of social media and the like people are actually more susceptible this kind of stuff....

Mink · 21-09-2016 01:32PM

One particular couple I used to be friends with tried to get us set up as distributors for these three schemes. I did partake with Herbalife when I was about 20 and swiftly learnt my lesson.
They however did not and are into some other thing now but I'm not sure what as not friends anymore.

Herbalife (supplements that will change your life)
Melaleuca (a whole catalogue of products with Teatree oil in them, which will change your life)
Agel (vitamin gel sachets that will change your life)

You either have the mindset to believe in this stuff or you don't.

Going Forward · 21-09-2016 01:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

has the internet made people smarter and less gullible?

On the whole, yes.

Unless the reason for national broadband roll out is part of a conspiracy theory to make them less smart and more gullible of course

TheDoc · 21-09-2016 01:35PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Two people in work have sunk money into OneCoin, convinced that they are going to make a fortune. One even thinks he'll be able to retire early because of it. No amount of research I've pulled up on it can convince him otherwise and he says that it's propaganda spread by the likes of BitCoin to stop OneCoin being even more successful than it is. I've tried but at this stage, let him off. The thing is I thought he was a smart enough fella but it really has me questioning that.

In fairness to him, he might just be speculating. Bitcoin looked an absolute racket on release, and now its pretty recognized where you can pay tax, buy things and trade them.

But they are still liable to scams, fraud and theft, but the same can happen with any currency.

Bitcoin is a pain point for me. I received bitcoin as payment for some work I did for a friend years ago, and sold them off about 3 weeks before the market went mental about 3-4 years ago. I'd sold about 40k worth of bitcoin for €400 : /

TheDoc · 21-09-2016 01:37PM

Fieldog wrote: »

Exactly this....

I'd say in this day and age of social media and the like people are actually more susceptible this kind of stuff....

Going by the fake competitions people share on Facebook and Twitter, I'm pretty convinced people are worse these days

21-09-2016 01:44PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Going by the fake competitions people share on Facebook and Twitter, I'm pretty convinced people are worse these days

A girl I know who I would call "intelligent in the real world" consistently shares these fake competitions on her FB page, I gave up moaning about it years ago and just had to mute her a while ago...

A while back I had a nosey at her profile to make sure she was still alive and all of it was months of competition's for trips to Dubai and the like with nothing else on there...

No one will give you a trip anywhere for "liking and sharing the page" on FB, possibly a trip to John of God's, but that's about it...

I wonder has anyone genuinely won anything on FB?

Especially over the value of say 500 quid?

Lackey · 21-09-2016 01:44PM

Got dragged to a 'forever living' party a couple years ago
Went home and did some googling, I found a site where they said:
'it's not a pyramid scheme, it's .....,
An Unfortunate Shapley Coincidence'
Lol!!!!!

kunst nugget · 21-09-2016 01:48PM

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness to him, he might just be speculating. Bitcoin looked an absolute racket on release, and now its pretty recognized where you can pay tax, buy things and trade them.

But they are still liable to scams, fraud and theft, but the same can happen with any currency.

Bitcoin is a pain point for me. I received bitcoin as payment for some work I did for a friend years ago, and sold them off about 3 weeks before the market went mental about 3-4 years ago. I'd sold about 40k worth of bitcoin for €400 : /

Even a smidgen of research would show you that every one involved in it is a crook with ties to various pyramid schemes in the past and nobody with any expertise in crypto-currency has anything positive to say about them. I showed it to the guy in work and he got kind of annoyed with me as if I was somehow trying to trick him. I don't want the fella to lose his money but I've had to let him off.

ohnonotgmail · 21-09-2016 01:48PM

Going Forward wrote: »

On the whole, yes.

Unless the reason for national broadband roll out is part of a conspiracy theory to make them less smart and more gullible of course

i didnt say it made them less smart and more gullible. My point, which i thought would have been clear, is that it has not made people smarter or less gullible. people who were stupid before the internet are still stupid now. the same with the gullible.

GavRedKing · 21-09-2016 01:54PM

Parents nearly got suckered into one about a decade ago and nearly pulled the trigger on about a 10k investment.

One of their mates from the local swore it was a winner and was never going to fail.

The_Captain · 21-09-2016 02:19PM

OU812 wrote: »

..,It's an inverted sales funnel

Actual phrase used by someone to try to recruit me into "the forever lifestyle".

Now admittedly, it seems to work quite well for him, he regularly travels internationally to their events and solely funds the family lifestyle through it & *seems* to be doing quite well but he got into it pretty early.

But it's still a pyramid scheme.

Your experiences with them?

An inverted sales funnel is nothing to do with pyramid schemes, unless for some reason you think because a pyramid is vaguely funnel shaped they must be related.

It's a scenario where you market/sell to a small number of people, who then tell friends and family about you and give them your contact details. These new customers tell their friends, and your sales base grows.

It's inverted because you're focusing on a small number of customers, providing good service and using them to spread the word about your sales, whereas a traditional sales funnel is about advertising/selling to a huge number of people and then focusing down on the people who express an interest.

It's basically like viral marketing where you use other people to advertise for you by sharing ads with their friends.

Nonetheless, direct selling is an appalling way to make money and should be avoided*

*unless you're looking to work in 'proper' sales, then it's a good way to learn how to sell without making any money.

Sunny Dayz · 21-09-2016 03:50PM

My aunt got involved briefly in Forever Living. She's a divil for joining those "work from home/ work for yourself/ make loads of money" schemes. She's done Tupperware, Avon, Christmas hampers etc. Anyway she didn't stay long enough with Forever Living to annoy us for sales thankfully. She found that the other Forever Living people were not business colleagues, associates etc - they were competition and it was back stabbing!

the_syco · 21-09-2016 03:58PM

Fieldog wrote: »

Exactly this....

I'd say in this day and age of social media and the like people are actually more susceptible this kind of stuff....

Confirmation bias. You'll find things that will support your belief, and ignore anything that says otherwise. Look at christains and/or any other large cults that go for your money on some promise that they'll somehow "look after you when you're dead"... :pac:

SoulTrader · 21-09-2016 04:06PM

Mink wrote: »

One particular couple I used to be friends with tried to get us set up as distributors for these three schemes. I did partake with Herbalife when I was about 20 and swiftly learnt my lesson.
They however did not and are into some other thing now but I'm not sure what as not friends anymore.

Herbalife (supplements that will change your life)
Melaleuca (a whole catalogue of products with Teatree oil in them, which will change your life)
Agel (vitamin gel sachets that will change your life)

You either have the mindset to believe in this stuff or you don't.

Interesting. Do you think Herbalife is a scam? I only know about it from reading the regular articles on Bloomberg - hedge fund activist investor Bill Ackman is convinced it's a pyramid scheme and has a massive short position in it - he is betting the stock goes to $0. Other investors, notably Carl Icahn, disagree with him though.

Speedwell · 21-09-2016 04:07PM

SoulTrader wrote: »

Interesting. Do you think Herbalife is a scam? I only know about it from reading the regular articles on Bloomberg - hedge fund activist investor Bill Ackman is convinced it's a pyramid scheme and has a massive short position in it - he is betting the stock goes to $0. Other investors, notably Carl Icahn, disagree with him though.

My mother was into it. Definitely a scam, but more respectable looking than other nutritional supplement scams, in general.

Winterlong · 21-09-2016 04:16PM

SoulTrader wrote: »

Interesting. Do you think Herbalife is a scam? I only know about it from reading the regular articles on Bloomberg - hedge fund activist investor Bill Ackman is convinced it's a pyramid scheme and has a massive short position in it - he is betting the stock goes to $0. Other investors, notably Carl Icahn, disagree with him though.

Ackman has shorted Herbalife to the tune of $1 billion. He must be confident all right.

21-09-2016 04:31PM

My friend's brother in Italy is brainwashed into the Herbalife Pyramid Scheme.

I am probably the most frequent visitor to his facebook page, everything he and his wife does seems to be consumed by Herbalife. They go on Herbalife holidays and take selfies on Herbalife-sponsored deck-chairs beside a Herbalife pool; they go to Herbalife conferences, everything they say and do on facebook seems to have a Herbalife component. My friend tells me they're both miserable behind it all.

It's sad but intriguing.

BrokenArrows · 21-09-2016 04:46PM

Fieldog wrote: »

Exactly this....

I'd say in this day and age of social media and the like people are actually more susceptible this kind of stuff....

Agree.

The people who fall for these schemes are the sort of people who will read 100 pages of negative reviews about the scheme, then find one glowing review which will convince them to invest all their money.

Or the people on facebook who comment on the pictures which say "Share and type 1234 into the comment section to see the amazing thing that will happen" followed by 1 million ****ing comments of 1234.

Or "Facebook has decided to donate money to this cute sick cancer stricken child whos parents died in a freak accident involving a carrot and a lawnmower, one like = one love = one dollar" - ****ing retards the lot of them.

Squeeonline · 21-09-2016 05:20PM

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Agree.

The people who fall for these schemes are the sort of people who will read 100 pages of negative reviews about the scheme, then find one glowing review which will convince them to invest all their money.

Or the people on facebook who comment on the pictures which say "Share and type 1234 into the comment section to see the amazing thing that will happen" followed by 1 million ****ing comments of 1234.

Or "Facebook has decided to donate money to this cute sick cancer stricken child whos parents died in a freak accident involving a carrot and a lawnmower, one like = one love = one dollar" - ****ing retards the lot of them.

I agree. Totally surprised that so many people fall for that sh1te. Seems like an opportunity for someone with loose morals... a fool and their money are easily parted etc.

Riddle101 · 21-09-2016 05:31PM

It's not a pyramid scheme, they call it a trapezoid scheme now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQTVyKO8EU

darced · 21-09-2016 05:32PM

This post has been deleted.

Calibos · 21-09-2016 05:39PM

I was amazed when my cousin got involved with forever living. Thats the Aloe one isn't it. Posting about it all the time on Facebook, in person, attending the seminars etc.

Why was I amazed?

She has a feckin marketing degree!!

Reckon she finally saw the light because she stopped posting about it on Facebook a few months ago.

ardinn · 21-09-2016 06:03PM

I used to run a large conference & banqueting department in a dublin hotel.

Forever were/are one of our clients. In the beginning they would have small meetings - 20 - 40 people, gradually over only a year or 2 that rose to 500. We hosted an event for them before I left for nearly 800.

They still use the hotel for regional stuff, but the large seminars they have will no longer fit in with the hotel - we could seat 1200!

TPD · 21-09-2016 06:29PM

You're either a chump or a c*nt if you're involved in these types of schemes.

gctest50 · 21-09-2016 07:31PM

Banners brokers was true comedy gold

So....you go into a business and tell them you're from the internet ?
Then something silver gold ruby holiday?

lol

ToddyDoody · 21-09-2016 08:04PM

Scams, shams and flimflams.

I know someone who had an Olympic ticket touting scheme on the go.

There was also a bank that wasn't really a bank at all.

Muahahaha · 21-09-2016 09:13PM

Lots of people seem to think this is a pyrmiad scheme- its not. Pyrmiad schemes are where you invest money into an asset and they pay you money back through the investments others below you make. Forever Living/Amway, etc are network selling, theres a big difference. One is a scam, the other is legit.

A friends mother does (or did) the Forever Living/Aloe Vera thing for about 5-6 years during the boom. She concentrated only on recruiting people and managed to sign up 30 odd people as regular sellers at one point and then they themselves recruited even more. iirc she got 9% of all sales off her "downline" which was considerate, at one stage she had a cheque coming in the door every month for €4k for sales that other people had made. Anyway she got ill a few years back and gave it up and over time some of her downline gave it up so the monthly cheques got smaller. She still makes about €1k a month from it and thats from barely doing anything.

To do it and be good at it youve gotta be really motivated, it takes a certain type of person. But Ive seen it with my own eyes whats possible. No way would I ever do it, its definitely not for everyone. But it does work very well for some, especially those that got in early when it first really kicked off in Ireland in the early 2000s.

alb · 21-09-2016 09:31PM

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness to him, he might just be speculating. Bitcoin looked an absolute racket on release, and now its pretty recognized where you can pay tax, buy things and trade them.

But they are still liable to scams, fraud and theft, but the same can happen with any currency.

Bitcoin is a pain point for me. I received bitcoin as payment for some work I did for a friend years ago, and sold them off about 3 weeks before the market went mental about 3-4 years ago. I'd sold about 40k worth of bitcoin for €400 : /

OneCoin is a complete scam though, it's just trying to cash in on the cryptocurrency hype. It's a good way to market as a scam as you've loads of people that saw bitcoin grow so much so quickly, so they believe it's possible again. They feel they missed out and want to feel like they'll get a second chance. Additionally cryptocurrency is technically complicated to understand so they can market it as one without the average person being able to tell the difference.

It's not a pyramid scheme...

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