Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Pro. F · 19-09-2016 06:59PM

bangkok wrote: »

If janmaat had of shot it would have been a near post shot which de gea would have saved.

Yeah, if he shot at the near post, but if he had cross/shot, driving it towards the back post or just towards the area that Deeney was entering, then Deeney would have had a good chance at getting a point blank shot on goal from a few yards out.

bangkok wrote: »

You play the percentages, Fellaini wasn't marking anyone, Capoue took a shot 12 yards from our goal unmarked. He should have looked a lot sooner to spot the danger

You can say the same about Bailly. The thing is, Capoue came from deep, so really it's the rest of the front six who should have been getting on him. The back-four were occupied with the three players bearing down on goal.

bangkok · 19-09-2016 07:30PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, if he shot at the near post, but if he had cross/shot, driving it towards the back post or just towards the area that Deeney was entering, then Deeney would have had a good chance at getting a point blank shot on goal from a few yards out.

You can say the same about Bailly. The thing is, Capoue came from deep, so really it's the rest of the front six who should have been getting on him. The back-four were occupied with the three players bearing down on goal.

We see it different ways, if I was smalling or Bailly I would be disappointed with him for not picking up anyone

bangkok · 19-09-2016 07:31PM

Seen there today, of all the teams in the league, we have ran the least amount of all the teams. Liverpool have ran the most, I think it was nearly 70km more than us. That is massive difference

TheDoc · 19-09-2016 07:43PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It's not the old 10 role he played in where he was off the shoulder of the 9, ready for quick one-twos to break through the lines. It looks a bit more like the midfield role Lallana has at Liverpool right now...a more withdrawn 10, leaving a distinction between the attacking trio and the midfield trio. Getting up in support around the edge of the box, but far far from second striker territory. (Though Rooney looks a little more withdrawn than Lallana positionally)

Here's his heatmap from the weekend;

The 10 is something I don't think everyone agrees on. In terms of what it is. I'd be more I guess high level when I talk about a 10,operating offensively and nearly like a secondary striker.

ProF and others describe it more like an auxiliary CM.

All the match reports, analysis, opinion, directions and stuff state the formation 4-3-3 with Rooney in midfield.

That is how I saw it too.

But then I recall for Mourinho using 10s differently.

So maybe my expectation of what our 10 should be doing is not what I am ever gonna see.

bangkok · 19-09-2016 07:54PM

TheDoc wrote: »

The 10 is something I don't think everyone agrees on. In terms of what it is. I'd be more I guess high level when I talk about a 10,operating offensively and nearly like a secondary striker.

ProF and others describe it more like an auxiliary CM.

All the match reports, analysis, opinion, directions and stuff state the formation 4-3-3 with Rooney in midfield.

That is how I saw it too.

But then I recall for Mourinho using 10s differently.

So maybe my expectation of what our 10 should be doing is not what I am ever gonna see.

Yep Rooney played 3 man midfield as far as I could see. I was always a big defender of Rooney but I think he should be taken out of the team

TheDoc · 19-09-2016 07:58PM

bangkok wrote: »

Seen there today, of all the teams in the league, we have ran the least amount of all the teams. Liverpool have ran the most, I think it was nearly 70km more than us. That is massive difference

No major deal really. Mourinho doesn't believe in a press in the final third and I cant say I disagree.

When not in possession we receded to our half. We should though be pressing in our half, turning over possession and then counter attacking.

That must be what's frustrating Mourinho. Our press looks slow in our half and when we get possession our movement is slow.

Liverpool do a lot of final third pressing. That commits bodies. You can see the goals they conceed they can be pretty open from not very incisive play.

We dwarfed Leicester possession last season, but I doubt Ranieri was sitting there sweating. Styles are going to have more key metrics.

TheDoc · 19-09-2016 08:00PM

bangkok wrote: »

Yep Rooney played 3 man midfield as far as I could see. I was always a big defender of Rooney but I think he should be taken out of the team

I wonder does Rooney feel he actually has license to drop that deep. Is he actually believing he's as influential as people make out?

I can only believe it's a Mourinho instruction. Can't believe that if Rooney was doing it off his own accord Mourinho would sort it out quickly.

"Wayne, **** off out of midfield and move up"

Lord TSC · 19-09-2016 08:16PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I wonder does Rooney feel he actually has license to drop that deep.

I'm thinking of Sam's "He can play where he wants" comments after the last England game.

bangkok · 19-09-2016 08:21PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I wonder does Rooney feel he actually has license to drop that deep. Is he actually believing he's as influential as people make out?

I can only believe it's a Mourinho instruction. Can't believe that if Rooney was doing it off his own accord Mourinho would sort it out quickly.

"Wayne, **** off out of midfield and move up"

Mourinho said he would never be a no 6 or a no 8, I think rooneys next position is on the bench

Sand · 19-09-2016 09:21PM

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho said he would never be a no 6 or a no 8, I think rooneys next position is on the bench

It probably will be for the cup game, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in the side for the LCFC game. He has been unaccountable for his performances for a very long time and Jose knows dropping him for a big game will have the press (and the commercial side of the club) all over him at a time when he is weakest politically - 3 game losing streak, and no guarantee the other players are ready to step up put in some performances to prove him right.

bangkok · 19-09-2016 10:26PM

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

tayto lover · 19-09-2016 10:50PM

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

That man has no class.
It's always someone else's fault, never his.

19-09-2016 10:57PM

Apparently Luke Shaw has a long-standing groin injury, and will be going for a scan on it in the coming days.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37408252

Simon Stone BBC wrote:

Manchester United and England defender Luke Shaw will have a scan on a long-standing groin injury.

Shaw played 85 minutes of Sunday's 3-1 defeat by Watford, after which he was criticised by manager Jose Mourinho.

The Portuguese said the 21-year-old, who returned at the start of the season after breaking his leg last September, was too far away from Nordin Amrabat in the build-up to Watford's second goal.

Shaw has started all five of United's Premier League games so far.
The Red Devils, who have lost their past three matches, play League One side Northampton at Sixfields in the third round of the EFL Cup on Wednesday.

If it's long-standing and he has been playing through it, I'm not sure if the scan will affect his availability for selection this week. Then again, I saw another report elsewhere saying that he was feeling the effects of the injury going into the match against Watford.

bucketybuck · 19-09-2016 11:00PM

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

I don't believe headlines from the rags, but you know what, if it is true the players can go **** themselves. After the crap they have served up for 3 years for them to be "unhappy" about the mildest of criticism is pure bullcrud. Maybe they should grow a collective set of balls and start being unhappy with each others performances, maybe we could get somewhere.

TheDoc · 19-09-2016 11:02PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't believe headlines from the rags, but you know what, if it is true the players can go **** themselves. After the crap they have served up for 3 years for them to be "unhappy" about the mildest of criticism is pure bullcrud. Maybe they should grow a collective set of balls and start being unhappy with each others performances, maybe we could get somewhere.

I actually heard the clip on Second Captains today. If anything it was a thinly veiled dig at Van Gaal, as he mentioned the players need to learn his methods, unlearn what they were taught and then it will become second nature.

If they did get upset about it I'd agree with Mourinho about questioning the mental fortitude of some of these players to play for United.

kippy · 19-09-2016 11:02PM

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

I cant believe that anyone is surprised at Mourinhos behavior at this stage. Not in the door a wet week and he is already at his antics.

Pro. F · 19-09-2016 11:58PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It's not the old 10 role he played in where he was off the shoulder of the 9, ready for quick one-twos to break through the lines. It looks a bit more like the midfield role Lallana has at Liverpool right now...a more withdrawn 10, leaving a distinction between the attacking trio and the midfield trio. Getting up in support around the edge of the box, but far far from second striker territory. (Though Rooney looks a little more withdrawn than Lallana positionally)

Here's his heatmap from the weekend;

You're right, he wasn't a second striker (or 9-and-a-half in the terms Jose used). But to say that he was withdrawn, leaving a distinction from the attacking three is completely wrong.

If you compare Rooney's heat map to the other players in the team you see that Rooney was one of the most advanced four on the pitch. There was not distinct forward and midfield threes. This is important. There was actually four advanced players: CF Ibra; 10 Rooney; wide Rashford and other wing was Martial, Young or Mata at various stages. Rooney was mostly the third most advanced out of those four roles, but it was extremely close between all three behind Ibra. Then Pogba and Fellaini were the two CMs (distinctly deeper again), with Pobga getting forward more and Fellaini holding. This is Jose's normal set-up.

There's no point comparing it to Liverpool's players because the set-up and tactics are completely different. Liverpool are actually playing with three forwards and three midfielders. United are not.

Cantona's Collars · 20-09-2016 12:47AM

The morning papers saying Jones will be sold in January and £10 million is the value on him.
Some papers saying Jose won't be getting funds to sign anyone and more saying Isco is a target for £25 million.

Nalz · 20-09-2016 12:47AM

"but it was extremely close between all three behind Ibra"

To be honest I thought Rooney seemed the deepest out of the four. Maybe it's due to the wayward passes I remember him playing which were mostly in front of Uniteds back 4

Rayne Wooney · 20-09-2016 12:48AM

Rooney had 7 touches within 30 yards of Watford's goal in 90 minutes. I just don't see what we gain from that, he is a man who needs to be in and directly around the box for me.

If you compare that to Ozil against Southampton or KDB against Bournemouth they have multiples of that amount and are a genuine threat.

He just doesn't do an effective job as a number 10 imo and I think we would be better playing Pogba there with Herrera and Fellaini behind if Jose needs to stick to his usual blueprint.

20-09-2016 12:52AM

kippy wrote: »

I cant believe that anyone is surprised at Mourinhos behavior at this stage. Not in the door a wet week and he is already at his antics.

It's ridiculous Joe. It needs to stop or next thing, a Manchester United manager will be kicking a football boot off the ground towards a players face, and we can't be having that at our club. Worse still, some of these players might let some of this criticism sink in and realise that they aren't the finished article. What then? Jose needs to stop or be stopped with these antics.

Giggsy11 · 20-09-2016 01:19AM

tayto lover wrote: »

That man has no class.
It's always someone else's fault, never his.

And the clueless are out with knives. Did you even watch any of his press conferences? He said many times that it's his mistake too.

Anyways not surprising from Wenger boys though, you lot are obsessed with Jose that you will fall for any tabloid headlines. Talking about class, easy to forget how Wenger was when he was in the mix for league title in last 90s and early 00s. Always moaning about other clubs.

Pro. F · 20-09-2016 01:19AM

Nalz wrote: »

"but it was extremely close between all three behind Ibra"

To be honest I thought Rooney seemed the deepest out of the four. Maybe it's due to the wayward passes I remember him playing which were mostly in front of Uniteds back 4

You are remembering wrong. You can check the heat maps for yourself on Squawka.

Pro. F · 20-09-2016 01:25AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Rooney had 7 touches within 30 yards of Watford's goal in 90 minutes. I just don't see what we gain from that, he is a man who needs to be in and directly around the box for me.

If you compare that to Ozil against Southampton or KDB against Bournemouth they have multiples of that amount and are a genuine threat.

He just doesn't do an effective job as a number 10 imo and I think we would be better playing Pogba there with Herrera and Fellaini behind if Jose needs to stick to his usual blueprint.

Where are you getting these numbers from? I'd like to look at them. Really you should compare them in more than one set of fixtures and to more than just two players.

ShooterSF · 20-09-2016 02:02AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't believe headlines from the rags, but you know what, if it is true the players can go **** themselves. After the crap they have served up for 3 years for them to be "unhappy" about the mildest of criticism is pure bullcrud. Maybe they should grow a collective set of balls and start being unhappy with each others performances, maybe we could get somewhere.

I'd hope the players can take criticism but I'd prefer it doled out behind closed doors. It's a characteristic trait of Jose's I never liked. Then again people are really losing their sh*t after 5 league games and a match in a cup I'd rather field our kids and let them see how they get on in.

Korat · 20-09-2016 07:08AM

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

I wonder who's feeding that to the press.

PhlegmyMoses · 20-09-2016 07:45AM

Korat wrote: »

I wonder who's feeding that to the press.

If people are thinking its Rooney, I can't think why that would be. On the surface, he is treating Rooney maybe better than he deserves.

I would be highly surprised if this story was true, let alone it being Rooney who leaked it.

Korat · 20-09-2016 08:06AM

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Korat wrote: »

I wonder who's feeding that to the press.

If people are thinking its Rooney, I can't think why that would be. On the surface, he is treating Rooney maybe better than he deserves.

I would be highly surprised if this story was true, let alone it being Rooney who leaked it.

It's obviously come from Rooney or his publicist. He's being slaughtered in press and by the fans, the easiest way to change the focus of the anger is to leak something about the manager. I've no doubt he did the same with LVG.

He probably feels justified in doing it as retaliation for Mourinho's comment that some players couldn't handle the pressure or responsibility. Even Rooney could work out that was referring to him.

Rayne Wooney · 20-09-2016 08:10AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Where are you getting these numbers from? I'd like to look at them. Really you should compare them in more than one set of fixtures and to more than just two players.

Whoscored.com if you click on chalkboard then touches.

20-09-2016 08:30AM

Strong rumors that Rooney is going to be dropped for Saturdays game
First Massive call Jose needs to make IMO

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

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