2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

B0jangles · 16-09-2016 01:24PM

conditioned games wrote: »

Shot yourself in the foot with that link. Here we have a prominent US political figure talking about the US and CIA supported coup and illegal overthrow of a democratically elected government in the Ukraine. I thought we in the west through the controlled western media was to pretend this never happened.

She says the US has lots of human rights issues which again is true. She also talks about sitting down and talking with dialogue & diplomacy instead of creating a world that's going to go up in flames. Give this person a standing ovation. Compare that to Obama and Clinton trying to blame Russia for everything making up false allegations as they go along. Jill Stein has earned a lot of respect from that speech.

Paul Manafort, is that you?

conditioned games · 16-09-2016 01:27PM

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I see now that Trumps son is saying that they wont release his Tax returns because it will be too confusing for the electorate this close to the election??????

http://time.com/money/4495037/donald-trump-release-tax-returns/

So they are saying that they don't want the bad news of all his shady dealings. I am assuming and I cant be proven wrong (because we don't have any tax returns) that the Russians, Putin etc are bankrolling him also his debt is being held by Russian Oligarchs and Arab princes, maybe an African dictator thrown in there as well. Also he is only worth 50 million not 5 billion.

Can anybody of the Trump brigade on here show me evidence that any of the above is not true.....and can you explain why its ok for Hillary to have 30 years of tax returns out there and its totally acceptable for the Donald not?

I'm surprised you didn't also try to say Trump is been bank rolled by Chinese pottery masons and Brazilian jiu jitsu's and has a net worth of minus 5 billion. Now you are looking for someone to prove your made up accusations are false?

Trump should release his tax returns, however the message his son said was that the 12,000 page tax return would only detract from the political message Trump is saying which is true.

B0jangles · 16-09-2016 01:28PM

Amerika wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent? The new America?

Hardly new, Hilary Clinton has been exhaustively investigated for 25 years, convicted of nothing but is somehow STILL a big ol' corrupt liar.

Does. Not. Compute.

B0jangles · 16-09-2016 01:46PM

conditioned games wrote: »

I'm surprised you didn't also try to say Trump is been bank rolled by Chinese pottery masons and Brazilian jiu jitsu's and has a net worth of minus 5 billion. Now you are looking for someone to prove your made up accusations are false?

Trump should release his tax returns, however the message his son said was that the 12,000 page tax return would only detract from the political message Trump is saying which is true.

The Washington Post has done a tally of the many, many excuses Trump and his people have given for why he hasn't released his taxes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2016/09/15/a-running-tally-of-trumps-many-excuses-for-why-he-wont-release-his-tax-returns/

Trump: “I’m being audited … so I can’t.” (See next section.) (Repeatedly since February)

Trump: “There’s nothing to learn from them.” (Fact checkers say this is false.) (February, February, May, May)

Trump: “Mitt Romney looked like a fool when he delayed and delayed and delayed and … didn’t file until a month and a half before the election and it cost him big league.” (February, July)

Trump: His tax rate is “none of your business.” (May)

Paul Manafort, former campaign chairman: American people “wouldn’t understand them.” (May)

Manafort: The only people who want them “are the people who want to defeat him.” (May)

Trump: “I don’t think anybody cares,” which is false. (May, September)

Eric Trump, son: Would be “foolish” to release; “you would have a bunch of people who know nothing about taxes trying to look through and trying to come up with assumptions on things that they know nothing about.” (August)

Mike Pence, vice-presidential nominee who released his tax returns: They’re a “distraction.” (September)

Donald Trump Jr.: “Would detract from (his dad’s) main message” (September)

Kellyanne Conway, campaign manager: “I just can’t find where this is a burning issue to most of the Americans.” (September)

Jeffrey Lord, commentator: Tax returns are “a political gimmick, a gotcha … Political opponents are going to go through there and look to make issues out of things.” (September)

2011: Said he would release tax returns after President Obama released his long-form birth certificate

2014: Said he would “absolutely” release returns “if I decide to run for office.”

2015: “I would release tax returns. … Nobody knows the tax return world better than me.”

2015: Said he would release tax returns when “we find out the true story on Hillary’s emails.”

January: Said he was ready to disclose his “very big … very beautiful” returns.

February: Said he would release returns “probably over the next few months.”

February: “I will absolutely give my return, but I’m being audited now for two or three [years’ worth] now so I can’t.”

February: Responding to claims he has a “bombshell” in his taxes,” Trump said: “We’ll make a determination over the next couple of months. It’s very complicated.”
May: Said he fights “very hard to pay as little tax as possible.”

May: Will “release my tax returns when audit is complete, not after election!”

July: Manafort: “Mr. Trump has said that his taxes are under audit and he will not be releasing them.”

July: “I haven’t had much pressure (to release tax returns). I’ll be honest, most people don’t care.”

September: Trump: “When the audit is complete I will release my returns. I have no problem with it. It doesn’t matter.”

Black Swan · 16-09-2016 02:18PM

Paul Ryan Republican Speaker of the House regarding Donald Trump's tax returns: "I released mine. I think he should release his." Of course Trump will not release any of his tax returns before 8 November 2016 for fear of what they say about his net worth, taxes he actually pays, and income from global investments.

Christy42 · 16-09-2016 02:25PM

B0jangles wrote: »

The Washington Post has done a tally of the many, many excuses Trump and his people have given for why he hasn't released his taxes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2016/09/15/a-running-tally-of-trumps-many-excuses-for-why-he-wont-release-his-tax-returns/

Hilarious that many feel the Democrat side calling Trump supporters idiots drives people towards Trump when you have several quotes here saying people won't understand them (presumably no one outside of the Trump camp are qualified to give an opinion on what is in tax returns).

InTheTrees · 16-09-2016 02:50PM

This audit excuse is nonsense. If it's such a problem he can release last years.

Amerika · 16-09-2016 02:52PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Hilarious that many feel the Democrat side calling Trump supporters idiots drives people towards Trump when you have several quotes here saying people won't understand them (presumably no one outside of the Trump camp are qualified to give an opinion on what is in tax returns).

Many people here have problems understanding the IRS Form 1040EZ, which is the simplest of the three tax forms you can use to file your federal income taxes. Just saying...

oscarBravo · 16-09-2016 02:54PM

Amerika wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent? The new America?

Says the man who just posted an article from a publication run by Trump's son-in-law that says:

Hillary Clinton’s campaign is stealing from her poorest supporters by purposefully and repeatedly overcharging them...

The article repeatedly makes this claim of deliberate overcharging, but never once offers any evidence for it.

RobertKK · 16-09-2016 02:56PM

Thing is the polls are not showing the tax returns is affecting Trump.
They show the trend is towards Trump.
Polls show Trump has honesty and trustworthy figures around 50%, While Hillary is at 35%, and that was before the pneumonia cover up.

Currently the swing states are moving towards Trump.

Silly things like Trump on the Jimmy Fallon show and allowing Fallon to mess up his hair is good for Trump, it shows a fun side by allowing his rather long hair to be tossed about.
Hillary Clinton is a bit too Stepford wife in comparison. She wants everything managed too much, which then leads to the events at the weekend.
The Stepford wife thing even goes as far as her being with Bill despite the rumours he is still a serial womaniser. It says power is more important to her than what is going on in her personal life.

oscarBravo · 16-09-2016 02:57PM

Amerika wrote: »

Many people here have problems understanding the IRS Form 1040EZ...

...and many people don't. Refusing to release tax returns because some people might have trouble understanding them is an excuse that struggles to achieve the level of pathetic.

I'm curious: of all the reasons Trump has given for refusing to release his tax returns, which of them does it suit you to believe?

Pro Hoc Vice · 16-09-2016 02:58PM

Amerika wrote: »

Many people here have problems understanding the IRS Form 1040EZ, which is the simplest of the three tax forms you can use to file your federal income taxes. Just saying...

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040ez.pdf

Well then I must agree USA is in decline if many Americans can not understand that form, just saying I assume you can understand it.

ECO_Mental · 16-09-2016 02:58PM

Amerika wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent? The new America?

Listen I would love to see evidence that Trump hasn't bought land in Crimea and putting a golf course and resort on those lovely beaches they have there on the black sea. But until Trump shows us his Tax records of his business dealings we are going to have to assume he has. He loves Putin and has no issue with the annexation of Crimea

Once again can you prove otherwise and don't mention; But.. But.. Hillary

Pro Hoc Vice · 16-09-2016 03:00PM

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Listen I would love to see evidence that Trump hasn't bought land in Crimea and putting a golf course and resort on those lovely beaches they have there on the black sea. But until Trump shows us his Tax records of his business dealings we are going to have to assume he has. He loves Putin and has no issue with the annexation of Crimea

Once again can you prove otherwise and don't mention; But.. But.. Hillary

You mean the Crimea that according to Trump the Russians are not even in?

Amerika · 16-09-2016 03:04PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Says the man who just posted an article from a publication run by Trump's son-in-law that says: The article repeatedly makes this claim of deliberate overcharging, but never once offers any evidence for it.

Sounds like this post should be in the media bias thread. Regardless, I saw plenty of evidence from a copy of a bill to interviews with the victims.

ECO_Mental · 16-09-2016 03:05PM

conditioned games wrote: »

I'm surprised you didn't also try to say Trump is been bank rolled by Chinese pottery masons and Brazilian jiu jitsu's and has a net worth of minus 5 billion. Now you are looking for someone to prove your made up accusations are false?

Trump should release his tax returns, however the message his son said was that the 12,000 page tax return would only detract from the political message Trump is saying which is true.

Listen prove me wrong, let Trump prove me wrong and show us his Tax returns

I would love to be wrong about him in the process of building a new casino in those new fancy Islands the Chinese are building in the South China Sea, apparently he is going to get massive tax breaks from the Chinese if he builds a casino there. Easy to prove I'm wrong but we don't know????

Amerika · 16-09-2016 03:13PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040ez.pdf

Well then I must agree USA is in decline if many Americans can not understand that form, just saying I assume you can understand it.

I was a certified H&R Block tax preparer. I did it one year and gave it up because of the ignorance of people understand taxes. And they always blamed their problems on the preparer rather then themselves or the IRS.

But who could blame them...

041415%20Tax%20Code%20Complexity.jpg

Pro Hoc Vice · 16-09-2016 03:16PM

Amerika wrote: »

I was a certified H&R Block tax preparer. I did it one year and gave it up because of the ignorance of people understand taxes. And they always blamed their problems on the preparer rather then themselves or the IRS.

But who could blame them...

But what is difficult to understand in the form, im not American, I have no idea of US tax code but I fully understand the form, what in the form do you find difficult to understand?

Amerika · 16-09-2016 03:25PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

...and many people don't. Refusing to release tax returns because some people might have trouble understanding them is an excuse that struggles to achieve the level of pathetic.

I'm curious: of all the reasons Trump has given for refusing to release his tax returns, which of them does it suit you to believe?

I haven’t really listened to his excuses. It is not legally required for a person to release their taxes while running for president, as it is to destroy emails while under a Congressional subpoena. But I digress...

I wish he would release his taxes. Unfortunately nobody listens to me. I figure it is a calculated decision on his part as the people who most want his taxes released (Hillary Clinton, her surrogates in the media, and some here) would only be looking for things to misconstrue in order to hurt him. His reluctance to release his taxes apparently hasn’t hurt him in the polls. I figure if it does gain traction and it begins to hurt him in the polls, he will then reconsider.

Black Swan · 16-09-2016 03:32PM

Amerika wrote: »

I was a certified H&R Block tax preparer. I did it one year and gave it up because of the ignorance of people understand taxes. And they always blamed their problems on the preparer rather then themselves or the IRS.

So this is the excuse that is unique to Donald Trump, and not to decades of presidential candidates who all released several years of tax returns before general elections? Warren Buffet is also being audited by the IRS this year just like Donald Trump, and Buffet's net worth was several times what Trump claimed, and Buffet challenged Donald Trump to share both their tax returns before a public forum for voters to ask questions. I feel certain that someone like Becky Quick could easily review and explain Donald Trump's tax return to voters in a way that most would understand, so the lack of understanding excuse goes out the window. Methinks Trump has something to hide, and unlike all presidential candidates before him, he is afraid to release his returns before 8 November 2016. There is a chance that he paid very low taxes or zero taxes, which would not go well with many independent voters, especially those that voted for Sanders.

Amerika · 16-09-2016 03:32PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

But what is difficult to understand in the form, im not American, I have no idea of US tax code but I fully understand the form, what in the form do you find difficult to understand?

Good for you. Basically, many people don’t have a real understanding taxes in general, because one of the most problematic decisions on their part is which IRS Form they should be filing their federal taxes on... 1040EZ, 1040A or 1040. Often times they don’t have a good understanding of the basic rules and throw their hands up in surrender, fearing the wrath of the IRS, and go to a tax preparer to have their taxes done.

Overheal · 16-09-2016 03:33PM

Amerika wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent? The new America?

This is rich

Hillary Clinton? Jail her! Butcher! Crook!

Trump? Woah woah due process we don't have all the facts what about the Constitution etc.

Pro Hoc Vice · 16-09-2016 03:37PM

Amerika wrote: »

Good for you. Basically, many people don’t have a real understanding taxes in general, because one of the most problematic decisions on their part is which IRS Form they should be filing their federal taxes on... 1040EZ, 1040A or 1040. Often times they don’t gave a good understanding of the basic rules and throw their hands up in surrender, fearing the wrath of the IRS, and go to a tax preparer to have their taxes done.

you are explaining why many Americans maybe are backing Trump.

K-9 · 16-09-2016 03:38PM

Amerika wrote: »

Dateline Nottingham... There's a new sheriff in town and she goes by the name of Hillary Rotten Clinton.

Robs from the poor and gives to herself. Clinton’s campaign is stealing from her poorest supporters by repeatedly overcharging them after they make a one-time small donation through her official campaign website. Never over $100 because then banks would then be obligated to investigate the fraud. A tactic often utilized by seedy pornography companies. And her campaign refuses to refund their wrongdoings when people complain.

Clinton’s New Colossus?

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
So that I may steal from them, galore.

Is there nothing so incorrigible, so corrupt, so wrong, that will get people to change their minds about this woman?

http://observer.com/2016/09/exclusive-hillary-clinton-campaign-systematically-overcharging-poorest-donors/

Whereas Trump is charging his own campaign top dollar for the use of his own facilities. NPR reported that Trump charged less to that DA in Florida he is friendly with, than his own election campaign that ordinary people are funding.

The Trump foundation also ”incorrectly” filed a $25,000 donation to that DA as a charitable deduction.

Plenty of dirt to throw at both candidate.

Overheal · 16-09-2016 03:40PM

Amerika wrote: »

I haven’t really listened to his excuses. It is not legally required for a person to release their taxes while running for president, as it is to destroy emails while under a Congressional subpoena. But I digress...

I wish he would release his taxes. Unfortunately nobody listens to me. I figure it is a calculated decision on his part as the people who most want his taxes released (Hillary Clinton, her surrogates in the media, and some here) would only be looking for things to misconstrue in order to hurt him. His reluctance to release his taxes apparently hasn’t hurt him in the polls. I figure if it does gain traction and it begins to hurt him in the polls, he will then reconsider.

You realize trump did the same thing right?

https://americanbridgepac.org/destruction-of-evidence-trump-org-deleted-emails-sought-in-lawsuit/

You defend one but not the other?

K-9 · 16-09-2016 03:41PM

Black Swan wrote: »

So this is the excuse that is unique to Donald Trump, and not to decades of presidential candidates who all released several years of tax returns before general elections? Warren Buffet is also being audited by the IRS this year just like Donald Trump, and Buffet's net worth was several times what Trump claimed, and Buffet challenged Donald Trump to share both their tax returns before a public forum for voters to ask questions. I feel certain that someone like Becky Quick could easily review and explain Donald Trump's tax return to voters in a way that most would understand, so the lack of understanding excuse goes out the window. Methinks Trump has something to hide, and unlike all presidential candidates before him, he is afraid to release his returns before 8 November 2016. There is a chance that he paid very low taxes or zero taxes, which would not go well with many independent voters, especially those that voted for Sanders.

Every single candidate has released their returns for decades, even Nixon.

Why are people giving him a pass in a long established practice for US Presidents?

Amerika · 16-09-2016 03:43PM

Overheal wrote: »

This is rich

Hillary Clinton? Jail her! Butcher! Crook!

Trump? Woah woah due process we don't have all the facts what about the Constitution etc.

Oh, I’m confident you will lift my arguments and words at some point in time to support your own positions. They’re pretty good, aren’t they?

Overheal · 16-09-2016 03:47PM

Amerika wrote: »

Oh, I’m confident you will lift my arguments and words at some point in time to support your own positions. They’re pretty good, aren’t they?

Not sure when; my candidate was already rigged out of the race

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls/

Black Swan · 16-09-2016 03:52PM

K-9 wrote: »

Every single candidate has released their returns for decades, even Nixon.

And Nixon was being audited by the IRS when he released his returns, so the Trump excuse is nonsense just like Warren Buffett claims.

K-9 wrote: »

Why are people giving him a pass in a long established practice for US Presidents?

Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan just hours ago said that he was releasing his tax returns and Donald Trump should do the same. But Trump will not before 8 November 2016, because of what they will reveal. Why are Trump supporters not demanding that Trump release his, just like all presidential candidates for decades have? Because most of his supporters are what Eric Hoffer called "True Believers," and they accept just about anything that comes out of Trump's MOUTH without any documentation to substantiate his claims.

Overheal · 16-09-2016 03:56PM

Asked a family supporter about Trump and the string of lies. The response was essentially that "oh it's all for show. Really he's [self imagined image of a normal human]"

Mind boggling really. Serious doublethink between being condition to despise Hillary and only having one really distasteful alternative 'cos third parties are a vote for Hillary etc.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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