Man tries to steal and cycle bike away - while it's still locked to the railings

ScumLord · 14-09-2016 12:37PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The public are encountering an ever-increasing number of people daily in the city centre who appear to be under the influence of illegal Prescription drugs.

If I'm reading the article correctly..

Foxhound38 wrote: »

At what point does it stop being society's fault and start being the responsibility

Never, junkies, homeless people, criminals, are all a byproduct of how our society works. Our society generates these types of people. It's not about convincing them about right or wrong, you can't educate it out if the conditions remain the same and you can't punish it out.. Change society or these people will continue to be generated.

OhHiMark · 14-09-2016 12:48PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

I've no concern about cause and effect. Only concern about consequences for their victims. You say that's approaching these issues incorrectly. I say it's not. We have different views of the world. Please don't tell me mine is becuase I understand less than you. You have no idea what I understand. Your arrogance stinks.

If you've no concern about cause and effect then you're undoubtedly approaching it incorrectly. Do you think the war on drugs worldwide since the 70s has been a good or a bad thing? Trillions of dollars spent on fighting it with absolutely no effect. Clearly the approach we're taking is wrong and needs to be changed.

Birneybau · 14-09-2016 12:51PM

Going back to the o.p., what kind of tart records the whole thing on their phone? Get a fcuking life.

Foxhound38 · 14-09-2016 01:56PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Never, junkies, homeless people, criminals, are all a byproduct of how our society works. Our society generates these types of people. It's not about convincing them about right or wrong, you can't educate it out if the conditions remain the same and you can't punish it out.. Change society or these people will continue to be generated.

So if I decide to put a needle in my arm, knowing full well that it will destroy my life, I don't have to blame myself but am perfectly entitled to blame society instead?

People are born into differing circumstances - but they alone remain responsible for the choices they do make. I'm far from convinced that the culture of allowing a certain section of society (not all of whom are junkies, in fairness) to take absolutely no responsibility for their own decisions, the situations they find themselves in or the actions they undertake (the standard "he had a hard upbringing Judge" suspended sentence defence) does society or these people themselves any good whatsoever.

If nobody expects, at any stage, a certain group of people to act responsibly - and offer no real punishment for failing to do so, then why would they act responsibly?

14-09-2016 02:00PM

ScumLord wrote:

Never, junkies, homeless people, criminals, are all a byproduct of how our society works. Our society generates these types of people. It's not about convincing them about right or wrong, you can't educate it out if the conditions remain the same and you can't punish it out.. Change society or these people will continue to be generated.

Bull **** of the highest order.

suicide_circus · 14-09-2016 02:05PM

Birneybau wrote: »

Going back to the o.p., what kind of tart records the whole thing on their phone? Get a fcuking life.

Good word

longshot911 · 14-09-2016 02:17PM

Wanting to take drugs is normal.

Our government should seek to ensure that people take drugs in the safest manner possible.

Prohibiting all drugs is stupid and foolhardy. It is prohibition which is the scourge on society.

Drug users could be fine, if they didn't have to pay for their own supply.

The government is to blame for failing or refusing to make drugs legal.

How bad must our cities get before action is taken?

Drugs should be legalised.

Overheal · 14-09-2016 02:38PM

SteM wrote: »

Why take that particular paragraph, is it just because it suits your argument? There's another paragraph in the piece.....

"The incident in the city centre was yet another example of the scourge of illegal drugs in Dublin and its harmful effects."

That is not a paragraph...

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-09-2016 02:46PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

It is a lifestyle choice - I feel bad for the old timers who got hooked without knowing what heroin was and what it did, but the zombies crawling around O'Connell Street cannot claim to have been ignorant of it before starting. It's sad, but it's entirely self-inflicted - sorry to be harsh about it.

A lot of them are also second and even third generation addicts who were born into addiction & NOT self inflicted.

vicwatson · 14-09-2016 02:49PM

Can't watch videos with their 30 second ads on that rag of a website

Rakish Paddy · 14-09-2016 02:54PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The point is the amount of people who began taking drugs when they were in their mid-teens, or younger. These were children, many of whom were brought up in very unstable families or in care. They weren't adults making rational choices.

Jayson Lemon Symmetry wrote: »

A lot of them are also second and even third generation addicts who were born into addiction & NOT self inflicted.

Sorry to go a bit off-topic, but are those two compelling arguments to repeal the 8th? If abortion was easily available and free/affordable to those who couldn't otherwise pay, would it reduce the problem dramatically in a generation?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-09-2016 03:11PM

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Sorry to go a bit off-topic, but are those two compelling arguments to repeal the 8th? If abortion was easily available and free/affordable to those who couldn't otherwise pay, would it reduce the problem dramatically in a generation?

I've no idea.. I'm all abortion & couldn't give a toss about peoples moral objections to it.. But would addicted mothers have the presence of mind to opt for an abortion is another question.

And we can't make them have abortions, if a female addict wants to keep her baby its not for anyone to say otherwise.

I've a lot of sympathy for addicts and have lots of dealings with them around the quays & Templebar (Dublin) most weekends. I believe in the vast majority of cases its not a lifestyle choice.

There's a very good series of youtube clips interviewing some addicts on Dublin streets, its worth a look. But be warned people who want to feel all superior and judgemental, this puts a human face on the addicts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzJjDYdELbs

Its also worth baring in mind that unlike most of us here who hope & can expect to die of old age or later in life that most if not all the people in these clips won't.. Without breaking the cycle of their addiction then sadly most will die very young.

MOH · 14-09-2016 03:18PM

SteM wrote: »

Why take that particular paragraph, is it just because it suits your argument? There's another paragraph in the piece.....

"The incident in the city centre was yet another example of the scourge of illegal drugs in Dublin and its harmful effects."

More like the article is yet another example of the scourge of "journalism" in Ireland and it's inability to produce coherent articles.

There's no mention of illegal drugs anywhere. Plus the entire article is based on a claim "a passer-by" that he overheard the "addict" being asked why he had prescription drugs in someone else's name.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 14-09-2016 03:26PM

I think what we'd all do well to remember is the fact addiction could come knocking at any of our doors. All it may take is one traumatic incident to send someone over the edge. All those people, they're someone's child, sibling or parent.

Nobody wants to grow up to be a waster that everyone else is disgusted by. Nobody wants to be reliant on something that could kill them just to function. Nobody wants to take a sh1t on the street like a dog.

They're still people and at the very least they should be treated as such.

Addiction is whole different complex ballgame. It's not nice, I agree, but I don't think anyone in a good place would willingly go into that situation. I do think we as a nation need to do more to help them, but I'm not in favour of free heroin or shooting up clinics

Dyr · 14-09-2016 03:35PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

When you de-humanize people, it becomes a lot easier not to give a sh*t about them. Its a popular media trick that plays right into the way the human psyche works.

You are spot on about the wording......"The public" are encountering these people, ergo they are not part of the public, they are separate from everyone else.....

I grew up in the 80s in an area that was riddled with drugs, some junkies were just unfortunate individuals who did no harm to anyone but themselves but most of them were scumbags long before they went near any drug.

Nowadays you've people who haven't read the f**king memo that heroin is highly addictive how much sympathy can you have?

Turtyturd · 14-09-2016 03:54PM

Bambi wrote: »

I grew up in the 80s in an area that was riddled with drugs, some junkies were just unfortunate individuals who did no harm to anyone but themselves but most of them were scumbags long before they went near any drug.

Nowadays you've people who haven't read the f**king memo that heroin is highly addictive how much sympathy can you have?

Would agree with that. Grew up in an area with similar problems and a lot of people I grew up with are now locked up or junkies but these people were identifiable even back then. Most of us were little sh!ts, did stuff we shouldn't have, and got into trouble but most of us knew where to draw the line, the ones that didn't are the ones stung out or in prison.

Wonder how different the general attitude would be though if it was just some drunk guy trying the same thing.

OhHiMark · 14-09-2016 04:05PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Addiction is whole different complex ballgame. It's not nice, I agree, but I don't think anyone in a good place would willingly go into that situation. I do think we as a nation need to do more to help them, but I'm not in favour of free heroin or shooting up clinics

Why aren't you in favour of injecting clinics?

ScumLord · 14-09-2016 04:35PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

So if I decide to put a needle in my arm, knowing full well that it will destroy my life, I don't have to blame myself but am perfectly entitled to blame society instead?

There doesn't seem to be any appreciation for how different, how bad, how inclosed life can be in these areas. Many of them are uneducated and full of all sorts of nonsense, they can have a very warped view of the world and don't really fully understand many things. Others can just have lost hope, without any useful social skills they compensate in damaging ways. There are all sorts of reasons. It's not about blaming society either. Drug crime is something invented by our judicial system, it didn't really exist in the way we know it today before prohibition. Legalised drugs would leave us with drug addiction to deal with.

People are born into differing circumstances - but they alone remain responsible for the choices they do make.

I'm far from convinced that the culture of allowing a certain section of society (not all of whom are junkies, in fairness) to take absolutely no responsibility for their own decisions, the situations they find themselves in or the actions they undertake (the standard "he had a hard upbringing Judge" suspended sentence defence) does society or these people themselves any good whatsoever.

We do force them to accept responsibility, they get arrested and charged. Whether that punishment is severe enough is another issue.

We can't over look the fact that nearly every urban centre of the western world develops the same problems in poorer parts of their city. It's not a culture that people are exchanging and deciding is a great way to live. It's a reaction to the way our societies work, less opportunity, less education, and stigmatising people because of where they live and their employment status. We can blame them all we want but that's done nothing to change the fact if we create impoverished places they generate undesirable behaviour.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Wonder how different the general attitude would be though if it was just some drunk guy trying the same thing.

A drunk wouldn't have the coordination to try and steal the bike without injuring themselves. If it was clearly your average person he's actions would be dismissed as drunken shenanigans. If he was homeless he'd be seen as a thieving scumbag. Even though the homeless guy may have a greater need to steal the bike, whereas the tax paying citizen was only doing it to be a prick.

Birneybau · 14-09-2016 04:58PM

OhHiMark wrote: »

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Addiction is whole different complex ballgame. It's not nice, I agree, but I don't think anyone in a good place would willingly go into that situation. I do think we as a nation need to do more to help them, but I'm not in favour of free heroin or shooting up clinics

Why aren't you in favour of injecting clinics?

Yeah, I'm baffled as well. Talks about doing more and then disagrees with some sensible solutions.

endacl · 14-09-2016 05:55PM

Reopen Spike Island. Not as a prison. More like a reservation. Three goes at rehab, and then off to spending the remainder of ones junk addled days on an idyllic island paradise. Food and drug drops twice a week. Let them sort out a junkie utopia themselves. Every one gets a free bike. I mean, it ticks all the boxes. All a junkie wants is to wander around aimlessly all day, a regular supply of their drug of choice, and free bicycles.

corner of hells · 14-09-2016 07:04PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bull **** of the highest order.

At least elaborate a little bit.
Homelessness nowadays is a by product of our society and there's a correlation between addiction, criminality, mental ill health with homelessness.

HS3 · 14-09-2016 07:51PM

Awww. ..I hate seeing things like this. Whoever chose to do whatever. ...seeing someone in that kind of state isn't nice.

I remember being in Temple Bar years ago and I was fairly well oiled. But I saw this bloke
..locked out of his head who couldn't walk straight...he got frustrated with himself and tried to run and landed flat on his face. I often wonder about the guy. Did he wake up the next morning wondering wtf happened to his face! It has stuck with me!

14-09-2016 07:54PM

longshot911 wrote: »

Drugs should be legalised.

I absolutely agree our drugs policy is failing. I believe in the need for injecting centres, and a focus on prevention instead of punishment of drug use ex post facto.

Decriminalisation is a possible solution, but not legalisation. Methadone is legal and reasonably easy to access, even for young teenagers, and yet we have an illicit street market in methadone; some people sell it to access heroin, which is more potent, and those who are not able to attend clinic or miss their appointments, or are not registered with drug treatment services, will buy methadone illegally.

This raises two obvious problems with legalising drugs:

Firstly, the inevitable desire for more potent drugs, since anything supplied by government will necessarily be quality-controlled and regulated within limited potencies
Secondly, the inevitable desire for access to hard drugs by those who are not registered with any agency, or who are unable to meet the requirements of a clinical programme.

Both of these issues will ensure that there will always be an illicit trade in opiates and other drugs that are currently illegal without a prescription.

The only way to get over these problems is a free-for-all where the State is competing with criminal gangs to supply ever-more potent and innovative drugs, with the Minister for Health Simon Harris assuming some Pablo Escobar kind of identity. I don't think anybody wants to see that.

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Sorry to go a bit off-topic, but are those two compelling arguments to repeal the 8th? If abortion was easily available and free/affordable to those who couldn't otherwise pay, would it reduce the problem dramatically in a generation?

Maybe, yes. I think parents with addiction issues should be counselled regarding the effects of their addiction on any children, and at least given the option of a termination.

Foxhound38 wrote: »

At what point does it stop being society's fault and start being the responsibility of the person engaging in criminality to put toxic waste up their arm?

I don't know about anybody else, but I am focusing on minors, i.e. the study I pointed to earlier which gave the median age of first heroin use at 16, and the midspread between the ages of 14 and 18. When adults have sexual relations with individuals in most of that age cohort, society names this 'statutory rape', because we recognize that this cohort tends to be too developmentally immature to consent to sexual intercourse.

Surely the selling of drugs to life-changing, incredibly addictive drugs to this cohort is no less damaging (and probably far more damaging) than non-aggravated sexual intercourse.

I find it bizarre how you seem to be totally dismissive of the ages at which people tend to become heroin users, as though it isn't relevant.

14-09-2016 08:09PM

It's sad that so many people look at that clip and feel no sadness at all for the shell of a human being in it, his life destroyed.

Drug addiction is never as simple as the cop yourself on crowd want to believe. I don't know how anyone can laugh at the state of the poor guy. People are victims of crime by drug abusers, but the first victims are the addicts themselves.

Dr Crayfish · 14-09-2016 08:51PM

They're victims caught in a trap. It's funny how most heroin addicts aren't from Foxrock or Dalkey, or had a fantastic family life growing up. Most of us here wont know how it feels when your life is that bad heroin is the only thing worth living for. I have known addicts and they don't want to be the way they are.
Having read this thread and the multiculturalism thread over the last couple of days, I really can't see anything changing in my lifetime. The majority on this site seem to be conservative Daily Heil type contributors.

4ensic15 · 14-09-2016 09:24PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

They're victims caught in a trap. It's funny how most heroin addicts aren't from Foxrock or Dalkey, or had a fantastic family life growing up. Most of us here wont know how it feels when your life is that bad heroin is the only thing worth living for. I have known addicts and they don't want to be the way they are.
Having read this thread and the multiculturalism thread over the last couple of days, I really can't see anything changing in my lifetime. The majority on this site seem to be conservative Daily Heil type contributors.

I regard them as vermin. They have no place in a civilised society.

Wanderer78 · 14-09-2016 09:26PM

4ensic15 wrote: »

I regard them as vermin. They have no place in a civilised society.

maybe we should just put all those suffering with mental health issues, down, would save us a fortune!

4ensic15 · 14-09-2016 09:30PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

maybe we should just put all those suffering with mental health issues, down, would save us a fortune!

The vast majority of people with mental health issues do not wander around the streets like zombies robbing and engaging in destruction.

Wanderer78 · 14-09-2016 09:32PM

4ensic15 wrote: »

The vast majority of people with mental health issues do not wander around the streets like zombies robbing and engaging in destruction.

completely agree, so what rules should we have for exterminating the mentally ill?

14-09-2016 09:36PM

4ensic15 wrote: »

I regard them as vermin. They have no place in a civilised society.

4ensic15 wrote: »

The vast majority of people with mental health issues do not wander around the streets like zombies robbing and engaging in destruction.

Yes, lets give the District Court the power to apply the death penalty for petty crime.

Where are all these ludicrous opinions in 'real life'? They seem to be given expression only ever under the cloak of anonymity.

Man tries to steal and cycle bike away - while it's still locked to the railings

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