How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

Ave Sodalis · 12-09-2016 11:42PM

thee glitz wrote:

In a different position, she may have done anything. What she did do was tell her child they may have been aborted, but for financial reasons. I'm not being fair though - maybe it's not her fault her child is pro-abortion, so I take that part back.

And why is that supposed to be upsetting?

Outlaw Pete · 12-09-2016 11:43PM

January wrote: »

Pushing women into travelling for abortions or to order pills online and take them at home is not safe. Abortions will always happen. 3 abortions a day happen here in ireland. That's not hospital abortions that is women ordering pills online to perform unsafe abortions in their own homes because they cannot afford to travel to England. We need to legislate for this medical procedure to be able to be carried out safely under the care of a doctor.

You're right, this country does need to legislate for medically needed abortions and early stage abortions given that women will travel if they are unable to get them here. However, the 500 or so women that travel to the UK each year for non medically necessary second trimester abortions will always have to travel to the UK. That will never change or at least I can never see it happening.

I was on Henry St on Saturday and there was a stall to sign petitions to repeal the 8th, which I signed, but while I was there waiting my turn, for all of five minutes I seen at least seven different people / couples stopping to talk about how they don't want to see the 8th repealed and they were basically told to f-off, actually, one of them was. Just n attempt to engage with them and they had been respectful. Now, many might think that is right but if that attitude continues, then I can see the 8th not being repealed. Any attempts to bully the electorate or speak down to them could very well back fire, just as it did recently in the UK with regards to Brexit.

thee glitz · 12-09-2016 11:51PM

sup_dude wrote: »

And why is that supposed to be upsetting?

It's only upsetting if the mother brought the child up to be pro-abortion. That's saying to your child "I wouldn't wish upon you what you've done to me".

gctest50 wrote: »

Why is it her fault her child is pro-choice ?

What's wrong with being pro-choice ?

In general, I'm pro-choice. Having a strong understanding of microeconomics, I recognise the benefit that choices afford us. The pro-abortionists have taken over that term. So pro-choice is now synonymous with pro-abortion. Not pro-choice in terms of where to go on holiday, who to vote for, what kind of pizza you can get. So if you're not pro-abortion, you're supposedly anti-choice.

There's nothing wrong with being pro-choice, just pro-abortion-choice. It's the killing babies bit.

I just said above that it may not be the mother's fault the their child is 'pro-choice', so I take that back.

Ave Sodalis · 12-09-2016 11:54PM

thee glitz wrote:

It's only upsetting if the mother brought the child up to be pro-abortion. That's saying I wouldn't wish upon you what you've done to me.

Why though? What's upsetting about it?

Outlaw Pete · 13-09-2016 12:06AM

When Philomena Lynott was pregnant with Phil in England she tried a self administered abortion as she couldn't afford to go any of the back street places at the time. Boiled Gin and a handful of coins I believe. Oddly quite a common concoction as I've read it a few places now.

Not sure if she ever told Phil though I read it in the book she wrote about him after he died.

eviltwin wrote: »

I think it's gas that some people believe that an actual baby is being killed but don't believe these pre meditated murderers should face justice.

In Canada there have been calls for a lot of so called "live birth abortions" to be investigated as homicides.

Guy in Louisiana has also recently been charged with feticide (along with murder) for killing a pregnant teacher (he was the vice principal).

I think there should be legal consequences for sure (excluding abortions carried out for medical reasons) if abortion is illegal in that country. Certainly for any abortionist offering such a service anyway.

I'd liked to have seen the following guy get 20 years anyway, but he only got 18 months:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/jail-for-mastermind-behind-late-abortions-clinic-exposed-by-the/

gctest50 · 13-09-2016 12:38AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

When Philomena Lynott was pregnant with Phil in England she tried a self administered abortion as she couldn't afford to go any of the back street places at the time. Boiled Gin and a handful of coins I believe. Oddly quite a common concoction as I've read it a few places now.

Not sure if she ever told Phil though I read it in the book she wrote about him after he died.

When Ekaterine "Keke" Geladze was pregnant with Joseph in Georgia she tried a self administered abortion as she couldn't afford to go any of the back street places at the time. Boiled Gin and a handful of coins I believe. Oddly quite a common concoction as I've read it a few places now.

Not sure if she ever told Stalin though

thee glitz · 13-09-2016 12:42AM

sup_dude wrote: »

Why though? What's upsetting about it?

Telling your child you'd rather they were aborted isn't cool - not good for their esteem. It makes you the worst parent and a drain on humanity.

Ave Sodalis · 13-09-2016 12:48AM

thee glitz wrote:

Telling your child you'd rather they were aborted isn't cool - not good for their esteem. It makes you the worst parent and a drain on humanity.

Only if they were told like that. However, just like the rest of your posts, you're going hysterical about it. I think you will find that it isn't necessarily a case of saying "I wish I'd aborted you" in a distasteful way without context. But I think you know that.

thee glitz · 13-09-2016 12:59AM

sup_dude wrote: »

Only if they were told like that. However, just like the rest of your posts, you're going hysterical about it. I think you will find that it isn't necessarily a case of saying "I wish I'd aborted you" in a distasteful way without context. But I think you know that.

If you tell a child that they might/would have been aborted but for financial reasons is one thing.
To then raise them as pro-abortion is quite another.
To do both, is to tell your child they weren't worth it.

Ave Sodalis · 13-09-2016 01:09AM

thee glitz wrote:

If you tell a child that they might/would have been aborted but for financial reasons is one thing. To then raise them as pro-abortion is quite another. To do both, is to tell your child they weren't worth it.

I really don't see how. Where is your line of thought behind this post?
Also, I've never really heard of anyone being raised pro-abortion. Pro-choice, sure.

eviltwin · 13-09-2016 07:56AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

In Canada there have been calls for a lot of so called "live birth abortions" to be investigated as homicides.

Guy in Louisiana has also recently been charged with feticide (along with murder) for killing a pregnant teacher (he was the vice principal).

I think there should be legal consequences for sure (excluding abortions carried out for medical reasons) if abortion is illegal in that country. Certainly for any abortionist offering such a service anyway.

I'd liked to have seen the following guy get 20 years anyway, but he only got 18 months:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/jail-for-mastermind-behind-late-abortions-clinic-exposed-by-the/

Do you think the woman who procures an illegal abortion here should face a legal sanction? She has sought out someone to 'kill a baby', or possibly done so herself. Why not jail her the same way you'd jail someone who kills a six month old.

thee glitz · 13-09-2016 09:11AM

sup_dude wrote: »

I really don't see how. Where is your line of thought behind this post?
Also, I've never really heard of anyone being raised pro-abortion. Pro-choice, sure.

I think that if a mother tells their child that they mave have been aborted, it should be that they follow it up by explaining why they are now opposed to it. Why else would you do that to someone?

eviltwin · 13-09-2016 09:39AM

thee glitz wrote: »

I think that if a mother tells their child that they mave have been aborted, it should be that they follow it up by explaining why they are now opposed to it. Why else would you do that to someone?

Why would you assume they are opposed to it now?

Outlaw Pete · 13-09-2016 11:50AM

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you think the woman who procures an illegal abortion here should face a legal sanction?

I do, that's why I thanked your post last night.

She has sought out someone to 'kill a baby', or possibly done so herself. Why not jail her the same way you'd jail someone who kills a six month old.

They should. I'm on record as saying Sarah Catt should have been charged with child destruction. If she had killed her baby the following week after she had given birth, she'd have been done for murder and so it's insane that he had her sentence reduced from eight years to three and half.

I believe any woman that aborts a 21-week-old fetus should be charged as if she had went into preterm labour, given birth and then later killed that baby in an incubator. I don't think location should define a child to the degree that at the exact same stage of development, a woman (or man) can legally end that baby's life if it resides in the womb but not outside of it.

I also feel (but yet I never seem to get much argument on this one funny enough - wonder why) that men should be charged with child destruction if and when they assault a pregnant woman and she then goes on to lose her baby. Actually there was a thread here in AH about one woman in the UK would was jumped by her boyfriend deliberately so he could cause her to miscarry and on it I said I hoped he would serve time as if he had killed a newborn. He was, and was charged with child destruction and got 16 years.

thee glitz · 13-09-2016 07:42PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Why would you assume they are opposed to it now?

Because otherwise telling someone they may have been aborted would have been better left unsaid. I can't imagine that's nice to hear.

eviltwin · 13-09-2016 09:33PM

thee glitz wrote: »

Because otherwise telling someone they may have been aborted would have been better left unsaid. I can't imagine that's nice to hear.

Depends on the context don't you think?

Depp · 13-09-2016 09:42PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Depends on the context don't you think?

under what possible context is it going to be nice to hear that from your mother?

eviltwin · 13-09-2016 09:45PM

Depp wrote: »

under what possible context is it going to be nice to hear that from your mother?

If your mother tells you that under different circumstances she might have had an abortion why would you take that personally?

Ave Sodalis · 13-09-2016 09:59PM

Depp wrote:

under what possible context is it going to be nice to hear that from your mother?

There's is a huge difference between "I wish I had aborted you" coming out of no where, and having a discussion on abortion in general and learning that your mother was under huge strains for various reasons and abortion was on the cards due to them.

thee glitz · 13-09-2016 10:31PM

eviltwin wrote: »

If your mother tells you that under different circumstances she might have had an abortion why would you take that personally?

If abortion were freely available here at that time, it would have been more affordable, and that mother may have gone through with it. There's no feeeling of gladness that it wasn't and she went on the to bring up the baby. By maintaining a pro-abortion availability stance, she's advocating easier access to it, despite all the joy she should have felt from her child that would never have been. It's 2 fingers tbh.

sup_dude wrote: »

There's is a huge difference between "I wish I had aborted you" coming out of no where, and having a discussion on abortion in general and learning that your mother was under huge strains for various reasons and abortion was on the cards due to them.

For sure, but now being pro-abortion availability signals that you still wish you had the choice to abort that kid.

Ave Sodalis · 13-09-2016 10:46PM

thee glitz wrote:

For sure, but now being pro-abortion availability signals that you still wish you had the choice to abort that kid.

Yes, that's the point of pro-choice. So?

Depp · 13-09-2016 10:57PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Yes, that's the point of pro-choice. So?

so your mother rings you up in the morning and says she should have been allowed to abort you you're just going to say thats grand ma you shouldve had your rights?

Ave Sodalis · 13-09-2016 11:04PM

Depp wrote:

so your mother rings you up in the morning and says she should have been allowed to abort you you're just going to say thats grand ma you shouldve had your rights?

Yes, I'd have absolutely no problem with that because I would agree. I'm not sure why you're asking me that, since that is what pro-choice is... having the choice.

thee glitz · 13-09-2016 11:17PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Yes, I'd have absolutely no problem with that because I would agree. I'm not sure why you're asking me that, since that is what pro-choice is... having the choice.

It's about realising that you're better off now than you would have been had the law been different.

Ave Sodalis · 13-09-2016 11:21PM

thee glitz wrote:

It's about realising that you're better off now than you would have been had the law been different.

Better off how? That sounds like an incredibly selfish thing to say.

thee glitz · 13-09-2016 11:37PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Better off how? That sounds like an incredibly selfish thing to say.

Agreed, it's very selfish. Better off because you didn't abort your baby, and you've had the pleasure of raising them, experiencing all the love they give you.

Ave Sodalis · 13-09-2016 11:56PM

thee glitz wrote:

Agreed, it's very selfish. Better off because you didn't abort your baby, and you've had the pleasure of raising them, experiencing all the love they give you.

But we were talking about from the now adult's point of view.
You could take that last sentence of yours though, and apply it to any stage of the baby making process. Also, what if it isn't a pleasure to raise them?

Depp · 14-09-2016 12:11AM

sup_dude wrote: »

Yes, I'd have absolutely no problem with that because I would agree. I'm not sure why you're asking me that, since that is what pro-choice is... having the choice.

so you're honestly saying you'd be cool with your mam wishing she walked into a doctors surgery and ended you and everything you are before you even got started? I hope for your own sake you're talking rot or blindly following the narrative to make your point cause if thats how you actually feel thats f*cking depressing!

thee glitz · 14-09-2016 12:20AM

sup_dude wrote: »

But we were talking about from the now adult's point of view.
You could take that last sentence of yours though, and apply it to any stage of the baby making process. Also, what if it isn't a pleasure to raise them?

Sorry, I don't know what point you're making.
It should be a pleasure to raise your own child. Of course it's not always easy and involves some unpleasant aspects, but it's the best thing ever, apart from maybe hoke and cookers.

Ave Sodalis · 14-09-2016 12:21AM

Depp wrote:

so you're honestly saying you'd be cool with your mam wishing she walked into a doctors surgery and ended you and everything you are before you even got started? I hope for your own sake you're talking rot or blindly following the narrative to make your point cause if thats how you actually feel thats f*cking depressing!

Firstly, now you're changing what you said. You were talking about her having a choice, and now all of a sudden it's her actually doing it.

Secondly, if you look at the first post I made in this thread, I made my position clear. No, it really isn't depressing. What's depressing is that you don't seem to have any consideration for circumstance and yet are still trying to make your point.

How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

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