Should children be exposed to "dark" music, imagery, literature etc.

11-09-2016 08:31AM #1

...or should it be all happy jingles and cartoonish images?

Was watching the fan video made by the 12 year old in North Dublin for an Aphex Twin track...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm1XwkOHxx8

Scrolled through his Youtube videos and this popped up...a bit startling and unsettling so will only post link...

http://youtu.be/JyTGr7q-Mcs

Both the Aphex Twin and Whitehouse deal with some very heavy themes such as child abuse, rape, murder etc.

I admire the kid for his work...but it just seems very dark output for a 12 year old.

Often listen to the Aphex Twin myself, and my wife hates it and doesn't want it played around our 20 month old...which I think is amusing. But watching the Whitehouse clip and thinking...maybe she has a point...

The flying mouse · 11-09-2016 09:17AM

I think your right Op, Opening up our children to the dark side in words and music takes away there innocence.

I remember years ago at a big family dinner, one of the10 year old nieces started singing a very poplar song at the time, Iam horny,horny,horny,horny, actually a very catchy number, Q Lots of embarrassed faces

Awop-bop-a-loo-bop-a-lop-bop-bop! this more like it

11-09-2016 09:29AM

The flying mouse wrote: »

I think your right Op, Opening up our children to the dark side in words and music takes away there innocence.

I remember years ago at a big family dinner, one of the10 year old nieces started singing a very poplar song at the time, Iam horny,horny,horny,horny, actually a very catchy number, Q Lots of embarrassed faces

Awop-bop-a-loo-bop-a-lop-bop-bop! this more like it

I'm Horny is a very upbeat song though.

On the other hand, Me So Horny by 2 Live Crew was a song with undoubtedly edgier lyrics, banned in Florida and eventually ending up before the US Supreme Court.

But it's not even the lyrics, the whole imagery and music surrounding an artist like the Aphex Twin can be harder and darker...like his famous Come to Daddy video. Which is brilliant...but wouldn't put it on in front of a child...

http://youtu.be/h-9UvrLyj3k

El_Duderino 09 · 11-09-2016 09:36AM

The whole point of fairy tail was to introduce children to dark themes such as abuse, loss, slavery and unfair treatment (the old school versions like the Grimm brothers before Disney sanitised them).

The point is to create a context to introduce the ideas so children weren't too naÃ¯ve. I imagine the very realistic representations the OP referred to are much more lively to cause the child distress.

It can't be a good idea to shield a child from reality for too long. And waiting for them to find out about sexual abuse for themselves is a terrible idea so there must be a good argument for introducing the darker side of reality on the parents terms and in a way that won't distress the child.

Fr_Dougal · 11-09-2016 09:49AM

Most nursery rhymes are dark.

Mr. FoggPatches · 11-09-2016 09:52AM

They should be taught about the dark side, but encouraged to use the force.

SEPT 23 1989 · 11-09-2016 10:14AM

His parents should be very proud of him and fair play to Richard for giving him free reign to create a video for his track

Don't think the sound of the Aphex Twin is in anyway dark to the autistic brain more soothing perhaps sure look at the man who creates it

Edit if someone could throw up the finished video CIRKLON3 cant do it on this phone

eviltwin · 11-09-2016 10:31AM

My six year old loves the video for Come To Daddy

Jesus. · 11-09-2016 10:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Was watching the fan video made by the 12 year old in North Dublin for an Aphex Twin track...

What the FUKK did I just watch?

Outlaw Pete · 11-09-2016 10:58AM

The Parental Advisory sticker on cassettes came out when I was 13. If an album didn't have that sticker, then we didn't want to listen to the tape. Suicide Solution was one of my favourite songs when I was in my early teens. That's pretty dark. Did that kind of thing effect us all negatively? No idea but some of most violent kids I new growing up were not really the ones that were listening to dark music... they were all Smiths and Joy Division fans. Actually, maybe you have a point now that I think about it

Tbh I think using kids like this is more fcuked up than having them hear dark explicit music as it's a form of indoctrination into a way of thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlMwtRFgY1Q

GLaDOS · 11-09-2016 11:14AM

A cautionary tale

Dolbert · 11-09-2016 11:26AM

Yes. Children love anything weird or dark, have you ever read a Roald Dahl *children's* book?!

Edited especially for Conor74

11-09-2016 11:31AM

Dolbert wrote: »

Yes. Children love anything weird or dark, have you ever read a Roald Dahl book?!

Dahl is an interesting one, he wrote books that were very specifically aimed at kids and then many that were totally inappropriate for children.

Would you leave his work like Kiss Kiss or Switch B**** lying around for a child to read? The former even contains the short story that was the genesis for one of his childrens books later.

Dolbert · 11-09-2016 11:35AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Dahl is an interesting one, he wrote books that were very specifically aimed at kids and then many that were totally inappropriate for children.

Would you leave his work like Kiss Kiss or Switch B**** lying around for a child to read? The former even contains the short story that was the genesis for one of his childrens books later.

Well no, I'd happily leave his children's books lying around though...? Would have thought it was obvious that there's a difference between dark children's literature and material that is adults-only.

11-09-2016 11:45AM

Dolbert wrote: »

Well no, I'd happily leave his children's books lying around though...? Would have thought it was obvious that there's a difference between dark children's literature and material that is adults-only.

But I'm not referring to kids books. Of course kids can read kids books.

You refer to adults books, so we agree that kids should not be exposed to certain art.

Should books and music be censored or age regulated in the same way that films are?

maudgonner · 11-09-2016 11:54AM

Social media erupted in outrage lately (according to the Daily Mail anyway) when CBBC cartoon star Bing Bunny brutally slaughtered a butterfly. The horror!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3779414/Parents-shock-CBeebies-Bing-pre-school-bunny-KILLS-butterfly.html

Bing Bunny is made by Brown Bag in Smithfield btw, so I can imagine that it's only a matter of weeks before Bing spirals down in guilt over his crime, gets on the gear and joins the citizens of the north inner city in hanging around the Luas stop asking for a bit of spare change for the bus...

Dolbert · 11-09-2016 11:55AM

Deleted User wrote: »

But I'm not referring to kids books. Of course kids can read kids books.

You refer to adults books, so we agree that kids should not be exposed to certain art.

Should books and music be censored or age regulated in the same way that films are?

I can't tell if you're being deliberately pedantic, but just in case... I wasn't referring to adult books, I was referring to dark children's books.

Yes, some books and music shouldn't be available to children. Again, I would have thought that extremely obvious.

11-09-2016 12:02PM

Dolbert wrote: »

I can't tell if you're being deliberately pedantic, but just in case... I wasn't referring to adult books, I was referring to dark children's books.

Yes, some books and music shouldn't be available to children. Again, I would have thought that extremely obvious.

We'll leave aside the issue of children's books.

Of course kids books are for kids, not sure what your point is. I can't tell if you are being deliberately obtuse.

But there are greyer areas, I specifically referred to the work of the Aphex Twin.

Unless you think James and the Giant Peach and Come to Daddy deal with similar themes?

evolving_doors · 11-09-2016 12:03PM

Meh! It's not a black and white answer.
It's a matter of taste / personal beliefs / social expectations.

It's like if folk laugh at a joke by Jimmy Saville, or admire a picture by Rolf Harris or listening to Wagner. There's more to each example we'll find here than face value.

Tasden · 11-09-2016 12:05PM

I think that it's up to each parent to know what their child will understand and intemperate from the song/film/story/art and make an informed decision based on that. Some parents get it wrong but most parents do have an idea of what is appropriate for their child. It's a judgement call I think.

Olishi4 · 11-09-2016 12:11PM

Depends. I used to be terrified of Pinnochio when he turns into a donkey and Charlie and The Chocolate Factory when the girl eats the blue chewing gum but my brother was babysitting me when I was younger and let me watch One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest which is fairly sad and dark, with him when I was about 10 and I understood the story but it didn't scare me or anything. I'd be more scared watching that movie now.

Tasden · 11-09-2016 12:17PM

Olishi4 wrote: »

Depends. I used to be terrified of Pinnochio when he turns into a donkey and Charlie and The Chocolate Factory when the girl eats the blue chewing gum but my brother was babysitting me when I was younger and let me watch One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest which is fairly sad and dark, with him when I was about 10 and I understood the story but it didn't scare me or anything. I'd be more scared watching that movie now.

Yeah in some cases a lot of the themes/references will actually just go over the kids head depending on their age. So something that will be deep/heavy to an adult wouldn't be interpretated the same by a child. Like when you watch programmes your parents used to watch and you finally get the joke that went over your head when you were little.

Dolbert · 11-09-2016 12:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

We'll leave aside the issue of children's books.

Of course kids books are for kids, not sure what your point is. I can't tell if you are being deliberately obtuse.

But there are greyer areas, I specifically referred to the work of the Aphex Twin.

Unless you think James and the Giant Peach and Come to Daddy deal with similar themes?

I'm talking to you about Roald Dahl because *you* jumped on my post about him

But since you asked so nicely, no I wouldn't censor Aphex Twin's music around my kid, but I would do with his videos. As someone who creates experimental music, it'd make me a bit of a hypocrite! I'd probably draw the line with Anal C*** though.

Olishi4 · 11-09-2016 12:24PM

Tasden wrote: »

Yeah in some cases a lot of the themes/references will actually just go over the kids head depending on their age. So something that will be deep/heavy to an adult wouldn't be interpretated the same by a child. Like when you watch programmes your parents used to watch and you finally get the joke that went over your head when you were little.

Yes as a kid, the things that stood out in the movie to me were different. I loved the character Chief and enjoyed watching the friendship between him and Randle develop. I knew Nurse Rached as the bad guy but I didn't question her part as much then.

Should children be exposed to "dark" music, imagery, literature etc.

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