Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Extrasupervery · 01-09-2016 09:08PM

New shoes arrived and I'm a new woman. Good luck to those on the boards plan with that LSR...just thinking about the 15 miler Hal Higdon suggests is enough to make me hungry.

The Muppet · 01-09-2016 09:17PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

A question on pace.

Before starting DCM training I was running 5k in 24+ minutes and did a 10k in 50+ minutes, so I was consistently running at around 5.00/km.

I've been following the HHN1 and have slowed my pace down to around 6.15/km.

My main goal for the marathon is to finish but if I had a goal time it would have been 4.30. According to Macmillan the pace for 4.30 should be 6.23/km

I've slowed down 70sec/km and am pretty comfortable on these long runs but the fact is my training pace is also the same as my so-called PMP.

So, should I be changing anything here? I don't know if I would be comfortable slowing even further on my training runs but should I do so? Or have I undersold myself and I should be aiming for a quicker goal time?

My understanding is that easy pace should be slower than pmp and lsr slower again. If you put your pmp into one of the calculators in Nops posts at the start of this tread it will give you your training paces .

Vdot gIves an easy pace of 11.02 to 11.43 for a 4.30 marathon

kin9pin · 01-09-2016 09:21PM

Pomplamousse wrote: »

Anyone else seriously eeeking at the thoughts of the 19 mile LSR on the Boards plan this week?:eek::o

Looking forward to it, but I'm a bit nervous about getting on the Luas after covered in sweat!

Wubble Wubble · 01-09-2016 09:26PM

Thu 1/9 - Glen Cup 6k, Phoenix Park (27:03)

This is one of the club's handicap races, set between the Khyber Road and the Magazine Fort. I got there reasonably early, or so I thought until some of us got commandeered into bringing massive heavy goodie bags from the far side of the field. Luckily enough, I'd decided I wouldn't be racing this. I had an idea to do a decent warmup when the coach spied me and called out "Wubble Wubble, don't go far!" Well between that and bagsgate, I got in a few token stretches and a km or so jog before the start.

The 6k consisted of three 1 mile+ laps, and a much shorter one to finish - plenty of ups and downs! I was running with the guy I finished a little bit ahead of in the FD10, and from early on it was clear neither of us would be in the running - he also had a tough session earlier in the week. We more or less ran together as the majority of the field eased past, and he pulled away early on the short lap; I had no interest in trying to race anyone who passed me. 16th out of 20, in a time of 27:03 is something I would have been really annoyed about if I was racing. However, I tried to keep DCM "the main thing" (AMK finished 5th here by the way) and so this was more about doing something new and getting to know the crew afterwards - as I've only just signed up, there were quite a few around who I wouldn't have met before. Back to the clubhouse for pizza and minerals, and then home after what was a very enjoyable evening. Well done to all involved.

nop98 · 01-09-2016 10:09PM

Antodoran136 wrote: »

has anyone on here bought runners out of amphibian king ? turns on the shoes I bought two months ago where the wrong type of shoe and totally worn out on one side of them causing my knee injury ðŸ˜ˆfuming is not.the word spend 150euro on runners to prevent injuries and the you end up paying 160euro I physio bills and ruling you basically out of the marathon aswell. so much for the idea that its an investment well spent my local sport shop for any future shoes

aquinn wrote: »

Contact them with this information and they can deal with it.

I haven't used them but have always heard excellent reports. They, I'm sure, would rather know this and deal with it.

+1. I have bought all my running shoes exclusively with them and cannot speak highly enough of the service I received. I would go back to them and let them know what happened - I am sure they have such pride in their work that they would want to know and help out.

nop98 · 01-09-2016 10:14PM

Pomplamousse wrote: »

I know, I need to trust the plan more. After surviving last week's 17 mile LSR while on holidays I thought I could survive any run, how quickly my mind forgets:D:o

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Bricking it tbh.

scotindublin wrote: »

Just another step towards the final goal; trusting the plan to get things done.

Plus always nice to see the "new record" on the watch after these long runs.

paddydriver wrote: »

Can't wait.. just need to figure out how I can find an extra mile from last week. Out at 7AM and done for 10.. rest of the day to enjoy and eat.. or eh, refuel. :P:D

Pomplamousse wrote: »

Anyone else seriously eeeking at the thoughts of the 19 mile LSR on the Boards plan this week?:eek::o

kin9pin wrote: »

Looking forward to it, but I'm a bit nervous about getting on the Luas after covered in sweat!

You'll all be fine! You have covered so many miles already. Look at it like this - there will only be two longer runs for those of you on the boards plan.

As a training opportunity, think about what you want to eat the evening before and the morning of the run. This should become part of the race-day routine.

Trust in the plan, run slow and relaxed, make sure you're adequate fueled, and keep smiling. And do post here after you're done!

conor_mc · 01-09-2016 10:17PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

A question on pace.

Before starting DCM training I was running 5k in 24+ minutes and did a 10k in 50+ minutes, so I was consistently running at around 5.00/km.

I've been following the HHN1 and have slowed my pace down to around 6.15/km.

My main goal for the marathon is to finish but if I had a goal time it would have been 4.30. According to Macmillan the pace for 4.30 should be 6.23/km

I've slowed down 70sec/km and am pretty comfortable on these long runs but the fact is my training pace is also the same as my so-called PMP.

So, should I be changing anything here? I don't know if I would be comfortable slowing even further on my training runs but should I do so? Or have I undersold myself and I should be aiming for a quicker goal time?

You're probably about right on easy/lsr paces as you are. You're most likely underselling yourself on your target time imo, but other than upping the pace of PMP runs a bit (5:30?), I wouldn't change too much. If you're doing the half, it's plenty of time to re-evaluate your target time after that.

To put it in context, I would've been an 8min/m runner before I started the boards plan last year, 40 mins for Raheny 5m in Jan, 1:17 for 10m race at Easter, so quite similar to yourself. Finished DCM in 3:56 last year, albeit off the more challenging boards plan. I'd say you're good for a 4:00-4:10 time off the HHN1 plan, assuming you have a good HM if you're doing it.

nop98 · 01-09-2016 10:20PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

A question on pace.

...

So, should I be changing anything here? I don't know if I would be comfortable slowing even further on my training runs but should I do so? Or have I undersold myself and I should be aiming for a quicker goal time?

The Muppet wrote: »

My understanding is that easy pace should be slower than pmp and lsr slower again. If you put your pmp into one of the calculators in Nops posts at the start of this tread it will give you your training paces .

Vdot gIves an easy pace of 11.02 to 11.43 for a 4.30 marathon

The Muppet is right - your easy and LSR paces should be slower than your PMP.

I think there's a combination of both here. You would do well to take it even easier on your longer runs but if you have been comfortable on them (e.g. not out of breath, and still able to hold a reasonable conversation towards the end of the long runs), don't force it too much. On the other hand, 4:30 seems a conservative goal for the day itself. Nothing wrong with that - but for the purpose of estimating your paces, it might be a little off. Do you have a representative time of a recent HM?

joesoap5 · 01-09-2016 10:35PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

A question on pace.

Before starting DCM training I was running 5k in 24+ minutes and did a 10k in 50+ minutes, so I was consistently running at around 5.00/km.

I've been following the HHN1 and have slowed my pace down to around 6.15/km.

My main goal for the marathon is to finish but if I had a goal time it would have been 4.30. According to Macmillan the pace for 4.30 should be 6.23/km

I've slowed down 70sec/km and am pretty comfortable on these long runs but the fact is my training pace is also the same as my so-called PMP.

So, should I be changing anything here? I don't know if I would be comfortable slowing even further on my training runs but should I do so? Or have I undersold myself and I should be aiming for a quicker goal time?

Personally I think you've under sold yourself. Some gurus would say you could go for 4 hours. I think 50 minute 10km translates to sub 4 providing you're putting in the equivalent paces and mileage and if your half marathon is around 1.50.

But if you're cautious I still think you should be aiming for 4.10 myself.
You'd really want to go flat out on the half to see what time you could get.
Some people slow with longer distances

jameshayes · 02-09-2016 10:16AM

Had the worst run of my life last night, I'm normally blessed with a really solid stomach but last night I had the worst cramps when I was on my LSR! The cramps would last a few minutes and then disappear but kept coming back over and over again

Only 3 more long runs left.

TFBubendorfer · 02-09-2016 10:37AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

A question on pace.

Before starting DCM training I was running 5k in 24+ minutes and did a 10k in 50+ minutes, so I was consistently running at around 5.00/km.

I've been following the HHN1 and have slowed my pace down to around 6.15/km.

My main goal for the marathon is to finish but if I had a goal time it would have been 4.30. According to Macmillan the pace for 4.30 should be 6.23/km

I've slowed down 70sec/km and am pretty comfortable on these long runs but the fact is my training pace is also the same as my so-called PMP.

So, should I be changing anything here? I don't know if I would be comfortable slowing even further on my training runs but should I do so? Or have I undersold myself and I should be aiming for a quicker goal time?

nop98 wrote: »

On the other hand, 4:30 seems a conservative goal for the day itself. Nothing wrong with that - but for the purpose of estimating your paces, it might be a little off.

Sorry for butting in, but Nop is absolutely right. Your 5/10k times point towards a 4-hour marathon. Therefore your "natural" easy pace is that of a 4-hour marathon runner. There is nothing wrong with running your first marathon conservatively but it does explain why 4:30 PMP feels so easy.

kin9pin · 02-09-2016 12:02PM

jameshayes wrote: »

Had the worst run of my life last night, I'm normally blessed with a really solid stomach but last night I had the worst cramps when I was on my LSR! The cramps would last a few minutes and then disappear but kept coming back over and over again

Only 3 more long runs left.

Sorry to hear that James. Did you eat quite close to your run? Were you hydrated? Anything different from previous long runs?

paddydriver · 02-09-2016 12:03PM

nop98 wrote: »

You'll all be fine! You have covered so many miles already. Look at it like this - there will only be two longer runs for those of you on the boards plan.

As a training opportunity, think about what you want to eat the evening before and the morning of the run. This should become part of the race-day routine.

Trust in the plan, run slow and relaxed, make sure you're adequate fueled, and keep smiling. And do post here after you're done!

I've WhatsApp'ed my wife (the cook..:pac:) and asked for some nice Monkfish and Greens for dinner, maybe some brown rice on the side. Think though the brekkie in the morning is more important and if dedicated enough to get up that little earlier and have your proper brekkie, give it 40 mins/an hour to work and then out running..

Happy Running tomorrow..

nop98 · 02-09-2016 03:50PM

jameshayes wrote: »

Had the worst run of my life last night, I'm normally blessed with a really solid stomach but last night I had the worst cramps when I was on my LSR! The cramps would last a few minutes and then disappear but kept coming back over and over again

Only 3 more long runs left.

Sorry to hear that, James. Take a day off maybe to make sure it doesn't come back.

Safrongirl · 02-09-2016 03:57PM

Had a slow 19k this morning - my usual route is being ploughed up in the forest and ended running through thick gooey mud - my new runners are a mess and to add I got a blister on my heal - think some mud got into my shoes and this caused the blister as never had one before - I had thought I would go further than the 19k but with the blister and running out of time I had to call it a day - raging

Also turns out i am not working Sunday so I plan to try and do 27k - have a route planned out so going to get up early and just do it - I will take a gel at about 10k and I also run with a belt and a water bottle on it for hydrating.

I drink 2 litres of water everyday but find after long runs sometimes this isnt enough so taking 1 litre of coconut water now too

nop98 · 02-09-2016 04:00PM

paddydriver wrote: »

...Think though the brekkie in the morning is more important and if dedicated enough to get up that little earlier and have your proper brekkie, give it 40 mins/an hour to work and then out running.. Happy Running tomorrow..

I was lucky to never really needed to pay attention to this, so more knowledgeable folks than me should jump in here (preferably with full recipes!!) - but I think the pre-race fueling really happens the entire week before the race.

The breakfast is important but you can't set-off on a fully loaded stomach. Last year, much more disciplined folks than me got up very early before a long run, had breakfast and went back for a snooze - so effectively did what you're suggesting. But, throughout the week, eat your greens, hydrate throughout the day, stay away from the booze, and be in bed by 10:30pm - that'll go a long way...

Safrongirl · 02-09-2016 04:15PM

my plan would be to eat a lot in the 2 weeks building up and drink loads too - the week before I will up my carbs and protein even more and the Friday of the week will be my last big meal day - Saturday will be all carbs and nothing too heavy - morning of race will be my usual coffee and bagel pre race breakfast before I drive up to Dublin

bucketybuck · 02-09-2016 05:03PM

nop98 wrote: »

I think there's a combination of both here. You would do well to take it even easier on your longer runs but if you have been comfortable on them (e.g. not out of breath, and still able to hold a reasonable conversation towards the end of the long runs), don't force it too much. On the other hand, 4:30 seems a conservative goal for the day itself. Nothing wrong with that - but for the purpose of estimating your paces, it might be a little off. Do you have a representative time of a recent HM?

joesoap5 wrote: »

Personally I think you've under sold yourself. Some gurus would say you could go for 4 hours. I think 50 minute 10km translates to sub 4 providing you're putting in the equivalent paces and mileage and if your half marathon is around 1.50.

But if you're cautious I still think you should be aiming for 4.10 myself.
You'd really want to go flat out on the half to see what time you could get.
Some people slow with longer distances

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Sorry for butting in, but Nop is absolutely right. Your 5/10k times point towards a 4-hour marathon. Therefore your "natural" easy pace is that of a 4-hour marathon runner. There is nothing wrong with running your first marathon conservatively but it does explain why 4:30 PMP feels so easy.

Thanks for the responses folks! I think I'll carry on then, maybe try to be a little slower but in general I'm comfortable enough at this pace so no sense being overcautious.

My next concern is what happens on the day, if I run for 4 months at 6.15 pace will I really be able to run quicker in the race? I suspect I'd be holding myself back a lot in the early stages in fear of crashing later on.

Classic21 · 02-09-2016 05:37PM

nop98 wrote: »

eat your greens, hydrate throughout the day, stay away from the booze, and be in bed by 10:30pm - that'll go a long way...

"stay away from the booze", let's not go crazy here. I didn't sign up for this!!

mel.b · 02-09-2016 05:43PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thanks for the responses folks! I think I'll carry on then, maybe try to be a little slower but in general I'm comfortable enough at this pace so no sense being overcautious.

My next concern is what happens on the day, if I run for 4 months at 6.15 pace will I really be able to run quicker in the race? I suspect I'd be holding myself back a lot in the early stages in fear of crashing later on.

Bucketybuck, i'm not doing DCM, but i did recently a 14week trainiing programme for my first half. I ran all my long runs at 7:30-8:00min/km, easy runs not a whole lot faster and then ran my half marathon at 6:36min/km. my 10k pb is 6:30min/km. i would never have thought i would be able to run that fast in the half, but it shows that training at slower paces, you will go faster on race day

Maximus Alexander · 02-09-2016 05:53PM

Classic21 wrote: »

"stay away from the booze", let's not go crazy here. I didn't sign up for this!!

I wouldnt be much of a drinker but that's exactly how I feel when they say mad stuff like "be in bed by 10:30." That's a typo, right? He meant 1:30.

tailgunner · 02-09-2016 06:01PM

These days, I'd be in bed by 10:30 even if I wasn't training for a marathon.

I used to be cool...

scotindublin · 02-09-2016 06:55PM

Heading away for a golf weekend next weekend with the guts of 70 in total going from work ; will be the last drink until marathon day.....just need to work out what to do about the 20 mile LSR!

Classic21 wrote: »

"stay away from the booze", let's not go crazy here. I didn't sign up for this!!

Wubble Wubble · 02-09-2016 07:56PM

Not sure how many of you have seen this? It was recorded prior to DCM 2015, but this year's course is the same.

http://www.sundayworld.com/entertainment/trending/brilliant-video-takes-you-all-around-the-sse-airtricity-dublin-marathon-course

Worth a look, especially if you're not based in or near Dublin, and hence have a lot more difficulty in doing your LSRs along the course.

tony1980 · 02-09-2016 08:37PM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Not sure how many of you have seen this? It was recorded prior to DCM 2015, but this year's course is the same.

http://www.sundayworld.com/entertainment/trending/brilliant-video-takes-you-all-around-the-sse-airtricity-dublin-marathon-course

Worth a look, especially if you're not based in or near Dublin, and hence have a lot more difficulty in doing your LSRs along the course.

Jaysus...this just gave me goosebumps!!!

Mrs Mc · 02-09-2016 08:51PM

tailgunner wrote: »

These days, I'd be in bed by 10:30 even if I wasn't training for a marathon.

I used to be cool...

He's serious bed by 10.30 and a technology ban too !!!

Mrs Mc · 02-09-2016 08:53PM

scotindublin wrote: »

Heading away for a golf weekend next weekend with the guts of 70 in total going from work ; will be the last drink until marathon day.....just need to work out what to do about the 20 mile LSR!

Was in the same situation last year had my sister in laws wedding so had hen night and wedding before DCM. Ended up taking a day off work to do long run. Still enjoyed hen and wedding just planned runs around it.

FITZA · 02-09-2016 09:03PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

A question on pace.

Before starting DCM training I was running 5k in 24+ minutes and did a 10k in 50+ minutes, so I was consistently running at around 5.00/km.

I've been following the HHN1 and have slowed my pace down to around 6.15/km.

My main goal for the marathon is to finish but if I had a goal time it would have been 4.30. According to Macmillan the pace for 4.30 should be 6.23/km

I've slowed down 70sec/km and am pretty comfortable on these long runs but the fact is my training pace is also the same as my so-called PMP.

So, should I be changing anything here? I don't know if I would be comfortable slowing even further on my training runs but should I do so? Or have I undersold myself and I should be aiming for a quicker goal time?

Hi bucketybuck, my 5k and 10k times are very similar to yours and based on them I set my planned marathon pace on an expected finish time of 4 hours, of course not really knowing if that is achievable but had to go with some time. I run my lsr's at approx 6.10 / 6.15 pace and my planned marathon pace runs at approx. 5.35 / 5.40 pace. My recent (last weekend) half marathon time of 1:50:44 would indicate I am still on track for a 4 ish hour finish time but as has been said to me many times...it's the second half that is the hard half!!!

The Muppet · 02-09-2016 09:15PM

19.2 mile LSR in the bag. Arrived in Waterford 3pm booked in and straigh out again for this at 3.45

It was quite warm stating out and the first few miles were down hill into waterford city . Took them nice and handy and there were a lot of junctions to cross.

The plan was to run up the quays and out to the greenway and to run on that to 9.5 mlies and then run back. Unfortuatley I ran out of footpath at 4 miles and the road looked too dangerous to run on so I reverted to plan b which was to run to tramore.

The same junction had to be navigated so it was stop star for the first six miles which had me on the tramore road.
I calculated that i needed to run 5.5 out and back and then the two miles up to the hotel woul9d give me my 19 miles.

It was constant running out to tramore and back in the hard shoulder/cycle lane.

Pace was reasonably consistant around 11 minutes miles except the last 2 were up a steep incline and I dropped it . Could easily have continued on from the 19 which I'm delighted about.

Straigh to dinner when I got back and then an Epson salt bath/soak

Delighted with the run and how I was feeling on it.

Hope to get the recovery done tomorrow but I may not.

19.2 miles @125 bpm 11.14 pace

tony1980 · 02-09-2016 09:34PM

The Muppet wrote: »

19.2 mile LSR in the bag. Arrived in Waterford 3pm booked in and straigh out again for this at 3.45

It was quite warm stating out and the first few miles were down hill into waterford city . Took them nice and handy and there were a lot of junctions to cross.

The plan was to run up the quays and out to the greenway and to run on that to 9.5 mlies and then run back. Unfortuatley I ran out of footpath at 4 miles and the road looked too dangerous to run on so I reverted to plan b which was to run to tramore.

The same junction had to be navigated so it was stop star for the first six miles which had me on the tramore road.
I calculated that i needed to run 5.5 out and back and then the two miles up to the hotel woul9d give me my 19 miles.

It was constant running out to tramore and back in the hard shoulder/cycle lane.

Pace was reasonably consistant around 11 minutes miles except the last 2 were up a steep incline and I dropped it . Could easily have continued on from the 19 which I'm delighted about.

Straigh to dinner when I got back and then an Epson salt bath/soak

Delighted with the run and how I was feeling on it.

Hope to get the recovery done tomorrow but I may not.

19.2 miles @125 bpm 11.14 pace

That's great stuff TM, delighted to hear that!!

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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