Ethics of beating the ****e outta criminals.

25-08-2016 10:41AM

biko wrote: »

.................
Secondly it's far too easy to make mistakes about identity and some innocent person get "vigilante justice".

It's not really to be fair.

Wanderer78 · 25-08-2016 10:41AM

ChikiChiki wrote:

But he didn't do his time. He got a 10 yr sentence in 2008 and is out walking the streets.

So where's the blame that he's walking the streets?

seamus · 25-08-2016 10:41AM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

But he didn't do his time. He got a 10 yr sentence in 2008 and is out walking the streets.

Actually he did. Like everyone else sent to prison he is automatically entitled to remission on the last quarter of his sentence.

Noveight · 25-08-2016 10:43AM

If a criminal is caught in the act of stealing a car or breaking in to a home, then they're fair game until the Gardaí arrive imo.

livedadream · 25-08-2016 10:44AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

He'll only stop being a danger when he's dead - and the sooner the better that's the case if you ask me.

not your decision to make though. we dont have the death penalty in Ireland. or even life long sentences.

what catches me is, yes i have no doubt like Augeo that if it happened my sister i would be finding the most painless ways to castrate the guy.

but then again

i can also argue that I would need to trust the system, and i do trust it to a degree, i dunno its one of those things, i dont think you can even know until your in that situation.

*hope i never am though...obvs.

RustyNut · 25-08-2016 10:44AM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I don't give a **** what happens to this guy, but the point of our justice system is that we don't go round beating the **** out of people for crimes they committed, thats what the law and prison is for.

Course if it was my sister or daughter or whatever, I'd probably do the same thing. But you can't condone vigilantism.

Sometimes law and justice are not the same thing.

MilesMorales1 · 25-08-2016 10:46AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Surely you just did?

People need to get of their high horses - this guy is scum, he deserves everything he gets and a lot more besides. It's not like he's going to wake up tomorrow and learn the error of his ways, become a campaigner for womens rights or some such bollox.
He'll only stop being a danger when he's dead - and the sooner the better that's the case if you ask me.

No I'm saying I'd lose my rag at the possibility of this scumbag hurting someone I love, and I'd potentially smash his head in. Thats not right of course, I'd be guilty of assault and of breaching my personal ethics or whatever. But in those sorts of situations, I would doubtless be quite enraged.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-08-2016 10:48AM

biko wrote:

First of all he did his time. Secondly it's far too easy to make mistakes about identity and some innocent person get "vigilante justice".

There was the classic case of the paediatrician who had his office ransacked by a mob of morons because they can't read.

As much as this might satisfy the bloodlust of a few people, would those same people prefer to be judged by someone who can read and write rather than the mob?

livedadream · 25-08-2016 10:50AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There was the classic case of the paediatrician who had his office ransacked by a mob of morons because they can't read.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1353904/Paediatrician-attack-People-dont-want-no-paedophiles-here.html

true story.

RustyNut · 25-08-2016 10:54AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There was the classic case of the paediatrician who had his office ransacked by a mob of morons because they can't read.

As much as this might satisfy the bloodlust of a few people, would those same people prefer to be judged by someone who can read and write rather than the mob?

We dont know the details in this case but I think there is a difference between "the mob" getting their pitchforks and going after "them uns" and someone seeking revenge/justice after a family member has been hurt.

Drumpot · 25-08-2016 10:56AM

Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society.

I don't condone the pathetic justice system that has had huge negative effects on my family.

If people think the moral of the story is that vigilantism is bad they are just as bad as the system that in many cases leaves victims in fear of their lives or that justice wasn't served. The moral of the story is that when victims or their families feel aggrieved they can't rely on the state to stand up to the plate.

25-08-2016 11:04AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society...........

Sex offenders inflict terror, fear on their victims and of course the heinous crime itself.

These pr1cks thrive on the justice system in Ireland, if they are caught, charged & sentanced they get 5/7 years or less and serve something ridiculously low in most cases.

These lads as well as playing the numbers game on getting caught know that more often than not they won't get battered to a pulp by friends/relations of their victim(s) as people toe the line and also feel they have something to lose.

Everyone of these pr1cks that get's some vigilante attention deserves less sympathy than roadkilled rodents.

endacl · 25-08-2016 11:06AM

Pkiernan wrote: »

10 year sentence from 2008 ....gotta love left wing liberal douchebags and their caring attitude towards prison time...

Have you always used that kind of phraseology? It make you sound stupid.

There's a side of the Atlantic where that kind of over simplistic, reductionist, reactionary, binary anti-thinking works. Luckily, it's not this side.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-08-2016 11:15AM

RustyNut wrote:

We dont know the details in this case but I think there is a difference between "the mob" getting their pitchforks and going after "them uns" and someone seeking revenge/justice after a family member has been hurt.

You might see a big distinction but I think you're splitting hairs.

In both cases you're talking about condoning a bunch of people who are untrained in the law, meting out punishment. All it takes is someone to convince a mob that they or their family has been wronged and hey-presto, mob justice.

I think the current system isn't great but it's better than what you're proposing

andekwarhola · 25-08-2016 11:28AM

If he was the right person, I'm happy enough he got battered but quite often, the source of the identification is some dimwit on social media. The possibility of things going wrong are pretty high.

Drumpot · 25-08-2016 11:40AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You might see a big distinction but I think you're splitting hairs.

In both cases you're talking about condoning a bunch of people who are untrained in the law, meting out punishment. All it takes is someone to convince a mob that they or their family has been wronged and hey-presto, mob justice.

I think the current system isn't great but it's better than what you're proposing

People revert to radical solutions/alternatives when they feel let down by the system or marginalized.

Do you think its more important to talk about how its wrong to revert to vigilantism or that it would be more productive to talk about reforming the legal system so victims feel like they get justice? Perhaps turning the tables and making the system more ruthless in favor of the victims of crimes?

Perhaps making it less easy for people with huge amounts of money (like banks) to get off because they can buy their way out of trouble?

What's ironic is that people (myself included at times) mock the "stupidity" of those wanting change as if its about intelligence. Brexit, Trump, Sarah Palin. Yes, the solution to huge numbers of people wanting change and feeling like they have no voice is to mock them. And the cycle continues with zero progression on the major issue - That the justice system is more lenient on criminals then it is on protecting its citizens.

mzungu · 25-08-2016 12:04PM

I think longer jail time for these vermin would be a better solution. Beating the crap out of random people brings its own problems. A bit like that thread on the 'shoot to kill' policy of drug dealers in the Philippines, these things only ever end in disaster and used as an excuse to settle grudges that are most likely not related to any crime.

Johngoose · 25-08-2016 12:10PM

The only thing about this guy is that he is 100% a dispicable human being,there is no question of his innocence.He diserves to get a beating and to leave his area.The locals are only protecting women in their area.I know it might drive him into other areas,but we should be able to check up online what convicted sex attackers are in our areas, like in other countries.

Johngoose · 25-08-2016 12:12PM

Just saw a pop up ad for The Purge on this thread.Lol!;-)

25-08-2016 12:19PM

I have to say if it was my sister/wife/girlfriend or any immediate family member that I quite honestly would organise and administer an awful hiding for the attacker.

Maybe that's wrong but in my book it would be justified completely.

Walter H Price · 25-08-2016 12:22PM

No need for ethics to get in the way thees scumbags are fair game , never going to feel for them.

and if the victim was one of my nearest and dearest id gladly dole out the beating myself

Nemesis...... · 25-08-2016 12:22PM

fuk him the scumbag

lawred2 · 25-08-2016 12:27PM

livedadream wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-of-irelands-mostfeared-predators-is-beaten-up-in-vigilante-attack-34991008.html

One of Ireland's most-feared predators is beaten up in vigilante attack

is it wrong that i read this and was like, ah well...

.

i know i should be all, assault is wrong and he served his time but theres a small part of me saying, well like, maybe it was her brothers and i dont blame them.

General consensus?

It's legally wrong.

but I'm definitely not going to cry about it.

Drumpot · 25-08-2016 12:37PM

TheTorment wrote: »

I have to say if it was my sister/wife/girlfriend or any immediate family member that I quite honestly would organise and administer an awful hiding for the attacker.

Maybe that's wrong but in my book it would be justified completely.

People confuse societal norm as right or wrong which is naive and misguided. Right and wrong are personally objective view points that a society chooses to adopt at any given time.

The majority of people will follow others and conform to what they are told is normal way of living or right/wrong. Some people will passionately defend this way of thinking and some people will passionately rally against it. At one stage it was normal and accepted that a husband could rape his wife. Perhaps in a few years future generations will look back at this time as a really bad era of justice.

there is nothing unique about these kind of discussions. There is nothing civilised about letting repeat offenders back out in society , thus guaranteeing future victims. The headline reads "vigilante" so people apathetic to challenging the status quo instinctively focus on the effect instead of the cause.

starshine1234 · 25-08-2016 12:54PM

This incident represents a failure of the justice system, a failure of politics and a failure of the Gardai.

There is no justice in this country.

Serious criminals get off with very light sentences.

I find it very easy to understand why this has happened. Fair play to the vigilantes. They are not pussies and they stand up for themselves. If more people did then this country would be much better off.

The Gardai are corrupt and should be disbanded and reformed. Martin Callinan, the previous Garda Commissioner, was a violent criminal and yet he remains un-prosecuted.

Why is Martin above the law?
Is he a legitimate target for vigilantes?

Martin Callinan commited violent criminal acts in contravention of Section 20 of the Criminal Justice Act 2011. The fact he wasn't investigated or prosecuted shows what a farce this country is.
And yes, I have written to the Gardai Press Office asking for comment and they refuse to provide one.

There's a mass grave in Tuam, Galway with approx 800 bodies in it, and incredibly, the Gardai refuse to investigate.
Is it correct and proper that the Gardai refuse to investigate serious crime?
Is the person who made the decision not to investigate a legitimate target for vigilantes?

The hand wringers saying vigilante-ism is a crime should suggest a solution to our failed justice system.
They should also acknowledge that by not punishing criminals they are creating an environment where vigilantism can take hold, and become normalised.

Captain Flaps · 25-08-2016 01:01PM

On a personal level I think 'great, he deserved it'

On a civic level I absolutely do not want to see gangs of eejits attacking people who've been tried, sentenced and served time. That's not how the system works.

starshine1234 · 25-08-2016 01:16PM

Captain Flaps wrote: »

On a personal level I think 'great, he deserved it'

On a civic level I absolutely do not want to see gangs of eejits attacking people who've been tried, sentenced and served time. That's not how the system works.

Do you concede that the system doesn't work full stop?

Are you happy not to have a functioning criminal justice system in this country?

Why do you describe people who are interested in justice as 'eejits'?
They have respect for themselves. They shouldn't be mocked for it.

seamus · 25-08-2016 01:26PM

starshine1234 wrote: »

There is no justice in this country.

Serious criminals get off with very light sentences.

That's all subjective. Some people believe that if you break into someone's house and steal their TV you deserve to be shot dead.

Some of the best functioning justice systems in the world also have the lightest sentences.

Likewise countries with extremely harsh punishments often have the worst justice systems. Look at the US. Very harsh penalties and an absolute mess of a system that does nothing to reduce crime.

The quality of a justice system is not measured on sentences, but on outcomes.

Ireland on the whole is a relatively safe country, so while one might cry about the subjectively light sentences received, some aspects must be working properly or we'd be in the mire.

So your comments about Ireland not having a functioning justice system must be complete bollox otherwise we'd have criminals roaming the streets with impunity and people locked in their homes 24/7 fearing for their lives.

starshine1234 · 25-08-2016 01:37PM

Seamus, any comment to make on the Police Commissioner committing violent criminal acts and remaining unpunished?

What about the mass grave of 800 bodies and no investigation?

Is that a functioning criminal justice system?

You may be content with the current dysfunctional system but don't try to pretend that it works.

Vigilantism would appear to be perfectly acceptable in our current environment.

Rakish Paddy · 25-08-2016 01:46PM

starshine1234 wrote: »

Seamus, any comment to make on the Police Commissioner committing violent criminal acts and remaining unpunished?

I must admit I'm out of the loop on that one - what act(s) of violent crime did he commit?

Ethics of beating the ****e outta criminals.

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