M7 Average speed cameras

One_Of_Shanks · 20-08-2016 01:59AM

Every day to work. Every day home from work.

My day was long enough but it's become stupid now. And I still haven't driven by and seen anyone working there.

Bit of a piss take now

_Kaiser_ · 20-08-2016 11:09AM

The only way it's likely to change is if ye call Naas Gardai, Kildare Co Co and the NRA to express your concerns about it. As an update none of them followed-up this week but the 3 people I did speak to all said the limits weren't being enforced with points/fines.

If enough people call them though then maybe they'll get the hint and review it before a pile-up DOES happen when the schools go back/traffic gets heavier and the mornings/evenings get darker.

ABC101 · 22-08-2016 12:35AM

I've been through the road works several times now. It would appear that the two pairs of vulture cameras are at the more eastern side of the road works and only for a very small section just before junction 10 eastbound.

If my observation is correct then the cameras are only checking average speed in a rather small section of the road works, not along the entire length.

Effectively one could zip along at 100kph and at the large electronic sign gantry reduce to 60kph, a short distance later just before J10 is the second pair of vultures, do one could zip back up to 100 kph. Not that I am recommending exceeding 60kph at all.

That's assuming my observations are correct.

So this leads me to a rather cynical assumption.

If the speed limit is set to a more extreme lower limit, motorists will tend to drive to a higher more practical speed, thereby giving a rather high number of drivers who are flouting the speed regulations.

If this proves to be so..... Then when the statistics are published from the averaging camera trial there is going to be an outcry from the media about all the dangerous speeders out there and of course no mention that the speed limit was set at a ridiculously low limit, or that there was nobody working on the road!!

Call me a cynic ..... But I smell a rat!

I think it's nothing to do with safety of the road workers at all, because if it is why not measure average speed along the entire length of the road works? Why only a small section?

If my observations are correct....I think it is designed to implement a averaging trial in the knowledge that the results will show a large % of motorists are flouting traffic regulations, therefore there is a need for vulture cameras to be rolled out nation wide.

The idea that the cameras are on trial does not stack up for me, averaging speed cameras is not a new technology, it is tried and proven elsewhere in the world, it already works and does not have to be set up on a trial basis to see if it works in Ireland.

highdef · 22-08-2016 08:25AM

Well fingers crossed that your theory is correct and that the results will show a large % of motorists are flouting traffic regulations and we get average speed cameras everywhere.

Mint Sauce · 22-08-2016 08:43AM

Veloce wrote: »

I went through this earlier this evening. I attempted to do 60km/h but it was just unsafe to do so. I had two artic trucks overtake me and cars flashing me to speed up. Christ. Eventually I just kept with the flow of traffic (80km/h) which was a lot safer

I went through there last week. Noticed the 60kph signs and one set of yellow cameras, seen no signs stating reinforcement or average speed limit. But recognised the cameras from average speed checks on UK motorways. Think it was the M3, must have been 15/20 miles of 50mph on button, in convoy, in all lanes, with constant remeinders of average speed, and yellow camera after yellow camera. Everyone doing 50mph.

Getting back to the M7 here, even when I slowed, I had Artics up my bumper, and overtaking. Ended up overtaking same further down the road when it went back to 120.

Special Circumstances · 22-08-2016 09:05AM

ABC101 wrote: »

The idea that the cameras are on trial does not stack up for me, averaging speed cameras is not a new technology, it is tried and proven elsewhere in the world, it already works and does not have to be set up on a trial basis to see if it works in Ireland.

"Never miss a genuine opportunity to contract the idiot relation of X to compile an unnecessary and expensive report on Y"

markpb · 22-08-2016 09:12AM

There's an amazing amount of group-think going on here. It's become an echo chamber with everyone backing up everyone elses assertion that a 60kph limit is somehow incredibly dangerous. These limits are well sign-posted, the limit falls from 120 to 100 to 80 and then 60 over a few kilometers. That's not dangerous unless you're a truly terrible driver.

If people decide they're not going to obey the limit and tailgate those who do, that is what is dangerous. Driving like that needs to be treated with the severity that it deserves which, IMHO, is far more than just 2 penalty points and a paltry fine.

Having driven through the roadworks at the limit several times, I don't believe it's as dangerous as people make out. When you slow down, traffic naturally bunches together so trucks and other vehicles behind you will naturally be closer to you than they normally would on the motorway. It doesn't mean they're tail-gating you or trying to push you off the road, I suspect that's mostly in peoples heads. The road is hardly quiet and we've yet to hear about any accidents. When the schools are back and traffic is heavier, speed will decrease and the chance of an accident will also decrease so if we haven't seen a plethora of accidents yet, I somehow don't think it's going to happen.

Mycroft H · 22-08-2016 09:31AM

Driven it a good few times in the last two weeks.

All of the times were mid afternoon and the vast majority of traffic were going at about 60km/h. The big camera signs were enough to make sure of that. Only noticed a few thicks trying to push through traffic.

Didn't notice anything particularly dangerous about it.

It's for a few km, your back up to 120km/h after that too.

One_Of_Shanks · 22-08-2016 10:16AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The only way it's likely to change is if ye call Naas Gardai, Kildare Co Co and the NRA to express your concerns about it. As an update none of them followed-up this week but the 3 people I did speak to all said the limits weren't being enforced with points/fines.

If enough people call them though then maybe they'll get the hint and review it before a pile-up DOES happen when the schools go back/traffic gets heavier and the mornings/evenings get darker.

Well I did exactly this a few minutes ago but I'm none the wiser really.
First off Kildare Co Co told me that I should be ringing the NRA, so she put me through to the NRA.
Then the NRA told me that it's the Guards who would be the people to ring about enforcement but he did say that the works would continue for another 6 weeks approximately.
So then i rang Naas Guarda station and she said that it's Kildare Co Co that I should be ringing.

So basically I didn't get anywhere aside from finding out that its likely to remain the same for another 5 or 6 weeks which is not quite as bad as the end of october/early Nov date that had been mentioned elsewhere.

_Kaiser_ · 22-08-2016 10:25AM

highdef wrote: »

Well fingers crossed that your theory is correct and that the results will show a large % of motorists are flouting traffic regulations and we get average speed cameras everywhere.

Yea because "speeding" is the cause of all problems on the roads :rolleyes:

There seem to be three schools of thought here.. those who drive appropriate to the conditions rather than just what it says on the sign (which can be too low OR too high), those who can't/won't drive at the posted limit when there's no reason not to - or who blindly follow the signs regardless - and don't see why everyone else shouldn't do the same, and yes there is a minority of assholes who tailgate, lane-weave and generally cause others aggravation, but no speed camera will catch those!

It's this last group that the second group are really complaining about, but the only way to deal with them is by AGS doing more than tax checks and doing people for being a little over the limit on a motorway/wide N-road.

ABC101 · 22-08-2016 10:28AM

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Well I did exactly this a few minutes ago but I'm none the wiser really.
First off Kildare Co Co told me that I should be ringing the NRA, so she put me through to the NRA.
Then the NRA told me that it's the Guards who would be the people to ring about enforcement but he did say that the works would continue for another 6 weeks approximately.
So then i rang Naas Guarda station and she said that it's Kildare Co Co that I should be ringing.

So basically I didn't get anywhere aside from finding out that its likely to remain the same for another 5 or 6 weeks which is not quite as bad as the end of october/early Nov date that had been mentioned elsewhere.

That sums up the entire civil service of Ireland in a nutshell. Zero accountability, shirking responsibility and always somebody else's job.

Eventually when you do get the right department, you will find that the person who is responsible / knows about the issue, is out of the office / on holidays / won't be back until Monday or some other excuse.

A silo based and operated dept.

From reading the Kildare Co Co website, they should have the answers. At the very least they should know what is going on with the roads in their area.

Shint0 · 22-08-2016 10:28AM

I have found now that when people are driving around the 80km/h mark the traffic seems to flow better which was actually Kaiser's suggestion here last week. Just an observation.

Charles Babbage · 22-08-2016 10:35AM

Traffic will flow well if everyone does the same speed. A lot of braking etc is caused by people acting the maggot and weaving and so on although slowpokes also cause problems.

These cameras are a reasonable idea, the failure is the imposition of a fixed speed limit regardless of what work is actually going on. This reflects laziness on the part of lawmakers to provide a basis for a more flexible limit which could then be applied by electronic signs.

ABC101 · 22-08-2016 10:38AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yea because "speeding" is the cause of all problems on the roads :rolleyes:

There seem to be three schools of thought here.. those who drive appropriate to the conditions rather than just what it says on the sign (which can be too low OR too high), those who can't/won't drive at the posted limit when there's no reason not to and don't see why everyone else shouldn't do the same, and yes there is a minority of assholes who tailgate, lane-weave and generally cause others aggravation, but no speed camera will catch those!

It's this last group that the second group are really complaining about, but the only way to deal with them is by AGS doing more than tax checks and doing people for being a little over the limit on a motorway/wide N-road.

My school of thought is this...

1) If the vulture cameras are there as a deterrent to speeders so as to protect road workers then the cameras should be at the start and end of the 3 Km section of road works. Not a 400m section towards the end of the road works. For me the argument that the cameras are there to protect workers does not stand up.

2) The argument that this is a trial for averaging speed cameras does not stand up to scrutiny either. A.Speed cameras are not new, and anyway the M50 is full of averaging cameras which have been operating for years, how else are the time estimates for various junctions calculated and displayed on the electronic gantry signs?. Of course these cameras are not used for FCPN's, but they still calculate time over distance.

_Kaiser_ · 22-08-2016 10:42AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Traffic will flow well if everyone does the same speed. A lot of braking etc is caused by people acting the maggot and weaving and so on although slowpokes also cause problems.

These cameras are a reasonable idea, the failure is the imposition of a fixed speed limit regardless of what work is actually going on. This reflects laziness on the part of lawmakers to provide a basis for a more flexible limit which could then be applied by electronic signs.

I think the legislation is there now under recent amendments? They have been testing/showing limits electronically on the gantry on the N7 inbound just before the M50 splits for a good while now, and I know there's been talk about variable limits on the M50 in recent times as well.

But you're right.. far easier/lazier to slap a blanket lowest limit regardless of conditions (traffic volume, weather/surface conditions, works active or not) than look at the situation properly

novarock · 22-08-2016 11:50AM

Anyone else noticing the number of speed camera signs popping up on Motorways in the last few weeks? One example is the M2 between Blanch and Ashbourne..

Clearlier · 22-08-2016 11:53AM

I've been living in the UK for a few years now and when done correctly I think that average speed cameras work pretty well. Typically over here the maximum speed is 50mph (80kmh) and it is very widely observed.

There are usually concrete barriers between the area where the work is being carried out and where vehicles drive but lanes are narrower than normal which is what I thought was the reason for the lower speed limit.

As someone else said heavy traffic tends to move more quickly at lower speeds if everyone is doing a constant speed and there aren't too many lane hoppers and I've tended to observe that too. The M25 and 6 (around Birmingham) have a variation on it where they have very frequent gantries with cameras (not average speed ones) and speed limits posted on each gantry. They vary the speed limit according to traffic levels to manage the flow. IMO it works reasonably well.

If Ireland are going to start introducing average speed cameras then we will have to have some kind of pilot phase to make sure that we know what we're doing. It does sound like the pilot could have been better executed though.

pippip · 22-08-2016 12:01PM

novarock wrote: »

Anyone else noticing the number of speed camera signs popping up on Motorways in the last few weeks? One example is the M2 between Blanch and Ashbourne..

Well gosafe did recently announce an expansion to where they were covering.

Veloce · 22-08-2016 12:08PM

Are there any other indications to say if penalties are being enforced (or not enforced) on this section of the M7?

novarock · 22-08-2016 12:16PM

I remember the announcement in May, but I've only spotted the cameras on the motorways in the last few weeks.. I wonder what the upper tolerance level will be

?

One_Of_Shanks · 23-08-2016 07:35AM

Veloce wrote: »

Are there any other indications to say if penalties are being enforced (or not enforced) on this section of the M7?

Only that article somebody posted a while back and the 'unconfirmed' answers Kaiser got when he rang.

Kildare co co really must have the answer but the person i got when i rang just fobbed me off.

If anyone wants to know for 100% sure I'd suggest ringing Kildare co co and just hope you get someone in a more helpful mood than the person i got talking to

marno21 · 25-08-2016 12:16AM

novarock wrote: »

I remember the announcement in May, but I've only spotted the cameras on the motorways in the last few weeks.. I wonder what the upper tolerance level will be ?

An obscene waste of public money putting GoSafe vans on motorways. The only thing they are likely to achieve is a crash caused by someone standing on the brakes when they see one.

There's a new zone outside Killarney on the N72 which is 100km/h in an area where traffic moves in bunches of 4/5 and someone always has to brake to 60km/h "just to be sure". It's going to cause a pile up.

racersedge · 25-08-2016 12:52PM

See thy have dropped up similar speed camera signs going southbound yesterday. Didn't actually see any of the cameras so maybe they are sticking the signage up first to use as a deterrent.

Would be great to see actual work going on - feels an age since I have seen anything going about on the side of the roads there!

One_Of_Shanks · 25-08-2016 12:57PM

racersedge wrote: »

See thy have dropped up similar speed camera signs going southbound yesterday. Didn't actually see any of the cameras so maybe they are sticking the signage up first to use as a deterrent.

Yeah I didn't see any cameras either. Suppose they're next.

Northbound this morning was interesting, I went earlier than usual and passed through there at 6.30 am and the difference was massive, got over-taken by several vehicles (one was a truck) doing at least 100km, possibly 120.
Not giving a fiddlers damn about the limit/cameras.
Whereas at 7am-ish there's loads jamming on the brakes or just sticking at 50 the entire way through.

Shint0 · 25-08-2016 09:42PM

racersedge wrote: »

See thy have dropped up similar speed camera signs going southbound yesterday. Didn't actually see any of the cameras so maybe they are sticking the signage up first to use as a deterrent.

Would be great to see actual work going on - feels an age since I have seen anything going about on the side of the roads there!

The southbound signs seem to have been up since last week. I was checking too to see if any cameras were installed but nothing so far. It might be just a matter of time as the poster above me said. They might have them in place once all the schools reopen.

racersedge · 26-08-2016 12:11PM

Is it me or have they taken down the cameras going northbound? Could have been tiredness kicking in but I didn't see them at all. Hard to miss being yellow and all..

Veloce · 26-08-2016 12:13PM

racersedge wrote: »

Is it me or have they taken down the cameras going northbound? Could have been tiredness kicking in but I didn't see them at all. Hard to miss being yellow and all..

I drove through at about 8pm last night and couldn't see them at all either. I still stuck to 60 all the way though, as painful as it was. They might be swapping them over to the southbound side as there have been signs put up there recently.

ABC101 · 26-08-2016 12:17PM

Veloce wrote: »

I drove through at about 8pm last night and couldn't see them at all either. I still stuck to 60 all the way though, as painful as it was. They might be swapping them over to the southbound side as there have been signs put up there recently.

They were there on Wednesday, northbound immediately behind the large overhanging electronic display notice screen, second set of cameras about 400 meters further on just behind large static sign for Junction 10, just prior to the junction where two lanes split to three lanes.

One_Of_Shanks · 26-08-2016 12:18PM

Veloce wrote: »

They might be swapping them over to the southbound side as there have been signs put up there recently.

Poor basstids only being able to afford the one set of cameras between the 2 roads

The_Pete_Fella · 29-08-2016 01:05PM

I went south bound on friday and seen the signs but no camera's and then came northbound Sunday and once again seen the signs but no cameras. very very strange.

M7 Average speed cameras

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