Burka ban

starshine1234 · 22-08-2016 05:59PM

The issue is multiculturalism, and whether it is good for Ireland.

It is manifestly obvious that it is not.

To say that because the world is not perfect we should make no effort to improve it is to give up.

There are lots of racists in Ireland who will never accept Islam. I feel those Irish people shuold be allowed to continue to exist without their country being destroyed.

Simply because you don't agree with those Irish people is no reason to ignore them.

Cabaal · 22-08-2016 06:31PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

The issue is multiculturalism, and whether it is good for Ireland.
It is manifestly obvious that it is not.

So it wasn't good in the 1950's when we hated the protestants and its still not good now?

To say that because the world is not perfect we should make no effort to improve it is to give up.

Sigh, I never said that,
But your solution is deeply flawed, you cannot seal the country off from all cultures. History shows us that country's have ALWAYS had different cultures entering and mixing into them.

The effort to improve it is to work on making that inevitable mixing easier and to iron out issues before they become bigger issues, your solution is to seal off the country, which is just silly and will not work...you might as well be suggesting Trumps solution of building a wall.

There are lots of racists in Ireland who will never accept Islam. I feel those Irish people shuold be allowed to continue to exist without their country being destroyed.

Wow, just wow
So because racist people won't accept others the other people should be banned from entering the country?

I'm honestly not sure if this is some poor attempt at a joke or worryingly if you actually seriously think this way
:rolleyes:

By your logic the Irish should have been banned from the UK, Australia, USA, after all, you have to please racist people in those countrys...some just will never accept the Irish.

starshine1234 · 22-08-2016 07:28PM

It is the culture of the newcomers that is the problem.

An example of a negative culture would be the Irish drink driving culture. It has now changed and we no longer have a drink driving culture, or not as much anyway.

In 1980 an Irish man could brag to his mates that he was drink driving the previous day and his mates might congragulate him. Nowadays, his mates would be more likely to criticise him.

The Australian police noticed this trend among the Irish. The police 'profiled' the Irish and targetted us, in Perth in particular, as they correctly noticed that we had a culture of drink driving. The police were perfectly correct to act as they did.

What's the point of that you might be asking?
Well, unfortunately I believe that some men, in africa in particular, have a culture where rape is acceptable. They can brag about rape to their friends and their friends congragulate them on their success.

That isn't easy to understand, and it certainly isn't nice, but that doesn't mean that it's not true.

We shouldn't import such a culture into Ireland. It is foolish to do so. Rainbows and cupcakes will not solve these problems for us.

If the problem is a cultural problem as I say then it is extremely difficult to solve. I suggest not importing the culture into Ireland.

I can also explain why second and third generation immigrants feel so outcast by their societies. It is because they are outcast.
Society may make nice noises of being tolerant but the reality is different.

I don't blame my fellow country men and women for being intolerant of outsiders who have a culture of violence and rape. I'm not judgemental and I accept people as they are. But I don't open my doors to everybody equally.

Consider travellers in Ireland.
All of the hate legislation in the world doesn't make much difference; travellers still face xenophobia, exclusion and reduced opportunities every day. It will be the same with Islam, and young islamists will hate us for it.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 23-08-2016 08:25AM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

I'm not really a fan of religions, particularly when they have strong contradictory overtones and defy logic and reason. And when certain religions move in to an area, if you don't get with the program, you're branded a racist and a bigot. This, I can do without. Why would I welcome that situation?

If we're going for multiculturalism, just be prepared for the ghettos, the Lutons of England. Be prepared for a some classic culture clashes and the rise of right-wing groups in retaliation to issues that will arise out of these ghettos.

When I was younger I was all for multiculturalism and I enjoyed the influx of Europeans we had during the boom, me being a young naive optimist. However, now that I'm making a very conscious effort try think with facts over feels I'm leaning to be more conservative when it comes to immigration.

I'm not against immigration, that's ridiculous, I just think it should be very strict and we should be very mindful of letting people with views that completely go against views that Irish people hold. I certainly don't want an influx of people that believe gays don't have a place in our society. I certainly don't want an influx of people that believe women are 2nd class. I certainly don't want anyone who believes in killing a family member to with hold the families honour.

One could argue that people leaving their country are generally seeking a better life. This is true but it's doesn't mean they aren't going to bring negative baggage that will affect those of us in our communities. Some immigrants don't have much of a choice and have to leave their country for survival and they don't have pick of where they want to go and will take anywhere they can. So it's like your friendly Spaniard who grew up reading Irish folklore and Celtic mysticism and has always wanted to live in the land of the fairies and leprechauns who thinks the Irish are great craic. Not all but a large percentage of immigrants I hope don't arrive will come from lands were there is genuine rape culture (not the the type SJW's or 3rd wave feminists proclaim is existent in western society) but proper rape culture where if you report a rape you might get ostracized from your community, you will be victim blamed and/or punished or stoned to death for adultery.

I'm giving the worst case scenario. I'm just saying for all those that are willing to accept immigration like Sweden has or Germany, be prepared to accept the worst that comes with it. At least consider it.

And also consider that these people wont assimilate in to Irish society like you think they might. Not all, but you will have unskilled, uneducated people that we will need to carry. Due to economic and cultural reasons they will live together and create ghettos. I'm not sure I see a large portion of them fit in with our ways of socialising.

As for the Burka ban, I'm not a fan of banning people's freedoms to express themselves and what they wear. However, remove religion and ideologies from the equation.. What is a Burka? It covers a woman so other men can't look at her. I can't say whether I'm for it or against it now that I think about it again. It's just not really a problem here. That might change in the future. It's rooted Islam and I'm not really a fan of islam just like I'm not a fan of religion in general.

Akrasia · 23-08-2016 09:46AM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

The issue is multiculturalism, and whether it is good for Ireland.

It is manifestly obvious that it is not.

To say that because the world is not perfect we should make no effort to improve it is to give up.

There are lots of racists in Ireland who will never accept Islam. I feel those Irish people shuold be allowed to continue to exist without their country being destroyed.

Simply because you don't agree with those Irish people is no reason to ignore them.

So you're saying that we as a society should bend over backwards to accommodate the racists and prevent multiculturalism. How do we do this? By deporting everyone who the racists decide is incompatible with their version of Irish culture?

What about the irish people who like diversity, who like meeting people from different backgrounds and different cultures, the irish people who fall in love with people from different backgrounds and cultures and want to raise a family with them here in Ireland?

Look, you need to define what 'multiculturalism' is when you talk about it.

Multiculturalism is often seen as a requirement to respect everyone's culture and allow them the freedom to live according to their own traditions and values, it's an idea of a divided society, one where people of different backgrounds tend to stick together and not mix.

I think there are issues with it myself, because it can lead to ghettos and it can lead to dividing up places according to race or religion and this causes resentment when the people who have always lived somewhere suddenly find that everything they've grown up with has changed and now they feel like outsiders in their own home

I think the old 'live and let live' version of multiculturalism causes lots of problems in the medium and long term.

What we do need to promote is interculturalism but a form that respects the values that we hold as a western secular democracy. Respect for equal rights, individual freedom of association and freedom of expression except for where the exercise of that freedom harms others excessively. Parents should have the right to raise their children how they see fit except where they engage in abusive or negligent behaviour.

In Ireland, corporal punishment is illegal because it degrades children and it is too closely linked with violent abuse of children. For similar reasons, we should also ban excessive religious impositions on children, things like circumcision and clothing and rituals that depersonalise children and take away their individuality or constitute a physiological or psychological abuse of the child (things like child exorcisms, or 'pray away the gay' camps)

It takes investment and deliberate planning to successfully integrate new communities. There should be state investment in integration projects, housing strategies should be aimed at integration and preventing ghettos, employment should be open to immigrants and refugees (end direct provision) All public schools should be secular and open to people from every background. I am actually opposed to 'faith schools' of all descriptions because separating children according to race or religion is an obviously bad idea in the long term. The state should invest in sporting, recreational and cultural activities designed to get people to integrate, in both directions, getting native Irish people to participate in the cultural events of immigrants as well as the other way around.

With a bit of planning and long term investment in fostering a healthy cultural exchange between the different communities, we will have a peaceful happy and enriched society for generations to come. It is the racists that are dividing the country, those who want to build a wall around the culture that they view as Irish and prevent it from becoming diluted (racist irish people, and racist immigrants alike)

smacl · 23-08-2016 11:20AM

I'm religious and support the ban

Turquoise Hexagon Sun wrote: »

I'm not really a fan of islam just like I'm not a fan of religion in general.

Nor am I, but I am a fan of change. Ireland has changed dramatically over the last few decades, where the notion of a homophobic society where women are second class citizens that you associate with Islam today was true of Ireland in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Many of the hundreds of thousands of Irish immigrants that left and returned brought this change with them, and it could be argued that we wouldn't be anywhere near as egalitarian a society if this hadn't taken place. As modern Irish citizens we're also Europeans and part of a world community, so I think the notion of putting up fences and returning to a more insular society is neither reasonable nor desirable. I'd suggest the issue with migration is of migration into Europe, not into Ireland, and one we need to deal with collectively.

smacl · 23-08-2016 01:54PM

I'm religious and support the ban

Interesting opinion piece in today's Times on the Burkini; http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/burkini-beach-ban-must-french-muslim-women-become-invisible-1.2764407

starshine1234 · 23-08-2016 02:10PM

That Irish Times article criticises the policy of banning the burka while offering no alternative.

We need solutions, not endless hand wringing.

If we have a multicultural society then the burka will have to be banned. Along with all other religious expression and cultural expression. The reason of course is public safety. In a multicultural world all cultural expression can lead to unrest and violence. Therefore, it must all be banned.

The alternative is to reject multiculturalism. It is a simple solution.

The Irish Times criticises everybody who suggests a solution to the violence we are faced with. By doing so, the Irish Times are acting like crybabies and they are sticking their head in the sand.

We need solutions, not endless crying.

Either we restrict multiculturalism,
OR we ban all religious and cultural expression,
OR we have chaos and unrest in our societies.

I obviously think we should restrict multiculturalism. It is perhaps selfish to do so but it is not racist. It may be somewhat xenophobic but so what; zenophobia is predictable from the theory of evolution; it's therefore perfectly natural and normal; therefore it is perfectly fine.

It is un-natural to force people not to be xenophobic.
I am not judgemental and I accept that Irish people are somewhat xenophobic and selfish. I accept those traits. They are normal traits to have.

smacl · 23-08-2016 02:24PM

I'm religious and support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

It is un-natural to force people not to be xenophobic.
I am not judgemental and I accept that Irish people are somewhat xenophobic and selfish. I accept those traits. They are normal traits to have.

Spin back the clock twenty years, and you could replace the word xenophobic with homophobic. Just because something is commonplace doesn't make it acceptable of excusable. Xenophobia is an unpleasant and undesirable trait, and in case you weren't aware, we Irish as a people are famous for being welcoming to strangers and well liked as travellers. i.e. compare Irish and English fans at the world cup, how they behaved, and how they were received.

starshine1234 · 23-08-2016 02:31PM

You are wrong.

Xenophobia can be predicted from the theory of evolution.

Can homophobia also be predicted?
I suggest not.

Xenophobia is far more natural than homophobia.

Replacing the word xenophobia with homophobia doesn't work.

The fact that the Irish are considered nice is irrelevant. Just because some Irish people are nice doesn't change or invalidate my argument.

I am not saying that ALL Irish people are xenophobic. I am saying that SOME Irish people are xenophobic.

I am also saying that xenophobia is normal and natural and therefore, xenophobic Irish men and women should be allowed to exist without having their country destroyed.

Politicians should represent the true nature of our electorate, including perhaps some negative aspects, and not represent some false, imagined, nice, happy clappy, version of our electorate.

Delirium · 23-08-2016 02:42PM

I'm religious and support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

You are wrong.

Xenophobia can be predicted from the theory of evolution.

Can homophobia also be predicted?
I suggest not.

Xenophobia is far more natural than homophobia.

Replacing the word xenophobia with homophobia doesn't work.

The fact that the Irish are considered nice is irrelevant. Just because some Irish people are nice doesn't change or invalidate my argument.

I am not saying that ALL Irish people are xenophobic. I am saying that SOME Irish people are xenophobic.

I am also saying that xenophobia is normal and natural and therefore, xenophobic Irish men and women should be allowed to exist without having their country destroyed.

Politicians should represent the true nature of our electorate, including perhaps some negative aspects, and not represent some false, imagined, nice, happy clappy, version of our electorate.

What do you suggest? Deport all foreign nationals and seal the borders?

starshine1234 · 23-08-2016 02:47PM

I certainly think that the government should stop accepting economic migrants into Ireland, effectively in secret.

Why all the secrecy?

The secrecy is precisely because the government knows that there isn't public support for muslim immigration.

The leftist movement has succeeded in making it difficult for people to reveal their true feelings. People are unfairly villified and harassed if they reveal theur feelings. People are being forced into silence, or into pretending that they are liberal leftist gay lovers.

That doesn't solve problems. It just forces them underground.

Also, your argument boils down to...
There are [bad things] in Ireland now, why prevent more [bad things] from entering?

As such, it is incredibly childish. Not worthy of a response in effect.

Delirium · 23-08-2016 02:52PM

I'm religious and support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

I certainly think that the government should stop accepting economic migrants into Ireland, effectively in secret.

Why all the secrecy?

The secrecy is precisely because the government knows that there isn't public support for muslim immigration.

The leftist movement has succeeded in making it difficult for people to reveal their true feelings. People are unfairly villified and harassed if they reveal theur feelings. People are being forced into silence, or into pretending that they are liberal leftist gay lovers.

That doesn't solve problems. It just forces them underground.

Also, your argument boils down to...
There are [bad things] in Ireland now, why prevent more [bad things] from entering?

As such, it is incredibly childish. Not worthy of a response in effect.

You didn't answer my question.

How exactly should society facilitate the xenophobes within Irish society?

You've bascially asked 'what about the xenophobes?' regarding the discussion on multi-culturalism. They would probably want Ireland free of foreign nationals given they are xenophobes. So I'm trying to determine exactly what it is that your're suggesting the Irish government do.

Akrasia · 23-08-2016 02:57PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

You are wrong.

Xenophobia can be predicted from the theory of evolution.

Can homophobia also be predicted?
I suggest not.

Xenophobia is far more natural than homophobia.

Replacing the word xenophobia with homophobia doesn't work.

The fact that the Irish are considered nice is irrelevant. Just because some Irish people are nice doesn't change or invalidate my argument.

I am not saying that ALL Irish people are xenophobic. I am saying that SOME Irish people are xenophobic.

I am also saying that xenophobia is normal and natural and therefore, xenophobic Irish men and women should be allowed to exist without having their country destroyed.

Politicians should represent the true nature of our electorate, including perhaps some negative aspects, and not represent some false, imagined, nice, happy clappy, version of our electorate.

Xenophobia, or the hatred of people from other countries, is not natural. It is natural for people to distrust people from outside their own in-group, but some nationalities are given free pass because they are more similar to us than others. People are naturally wary of people who they don't identify with. It doesn't have to be foreigners, it could be the next parish, or people from a different religious sect, or people with higher or lower education, or even people who support a different football team...

It's natural for people to group themselves into teams especially when there is competition for resources, but what de-marks those teams is dependent on the conditions and attitudes that prevail at the particular time and place.

In Mcarthy's america, people are either 'American' or 'Communist'. In Belfast in the 80s, you are either Protestant or Catholic

Right now, immigrants are the bogeymen who are responsible for 'destroying the fabric of society' but a huge factor in the reason why there are ghettos and social problems is due to the distribution of wealth, income and opportunity within an economy.

If immigration was stopped in the morning, the focus would turn to some other identifiable group who are to blame for what ails ya. In Catholic Ireland before the first black man darkened our shores, we were demonising unmarried mothers and bastard children. People from the countryside didn't trust people from the city, people from the city thought country folk were ignorant and backwards...

What I'm saying, is people will naturally and subconsciously find reasons to be suspicious of people they don't know. But these suspicions can be overcome by education and integration and conscious efforts to refrain from judging people just because of where you think they are from.

Putting your hands up and deciding that we'll always have prejudice so why bother changing it, is just a recipe for more and more insular attitudes that confine people into smaller and smaller cliques of people echoing to each other their own hatred of people who are different to them

starshine1234 · 23-08-2016 02:57PM

Delirium wrote: »

You didn't answer my question.

How exactly should society facilitate the xenophobes within Irish society?

I have answered the question.

I said that immigration should be halted.

Delirium wrote: »

You've bascially asked 'what about the xenophobes?' regarding the discussion on multi-culturalism. They would probably want Ireland free of foreign nationals given they are xenophobes. So I'm trying to determine exactly what it is that your're suggesting the Irish government do.

Are you asking me if I approve of a 'final solution' of some sort?

I certainly think it is reckless to allow a msssive influx of an alien culture. It is very likely to lead to the sorts of social unrest we see in Sweden and France.

There is no point in taking serious risks with the safety of our societies.

In the end, we may well see people advocating for a final solution if unfettered immigration is allowed to continue.

I am suggesting that we acknowledge that possibility now, and we take action now to prevent that from occurring in the future.

We are in an existential struggle for our survival. It may seem like hysterical nonsense but Islam has stated an intention to wipe us out. We should listen.

Akrasia · 23-08-2016 03:01PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

I certainly think that the government should stop accepting economic migrants into Ireland, effectively in secret.

Why all the secrecy?

The secrecy is precisely because the government knows that there isn't public support for muslim immigration.

The leftist movement has succeeded in making it difficult for people to reveal their true feelings. People are unfairly villified and harassed if they reveal theur feelings. People are being forced into silence, or into pretending that they are liberal leftist gay lovers.

That doesn't solve problems. It just forces them underground.

Also, your argument boils down to...
There are [bad things] in Ireland now, why prevent more [bad things] from entering?

As such, it is incredibly childish. Not worthy of a response in effect.

If we stop migration into Ireland, other countries would be perfectly entitled to prevent Irish migrants from working abroad, and then we'll have much bigger problems the next time there's an economic crisis and suddenly we find that there are hundreds of thousands of Irish people who are unemployed with nowhere to go to find work.

smacl · 23-08-2016 03:45PM

I'm religious and support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

You are wrong.
Xenophobia can be predicted from the theory of evolution.
Can homophobia also be predicted?
I suggest not.
Xenophobia is far more natural than homophobia.
Replacing the word xenophobia with homophobia doesn't work.

Xenophobia is defined as fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign. You could argue that homophobia is a form of xenophobia as it is a hatred of something some people found strange. You might be happy enough with xenophobia, but hatred and incitement to hatred aren't tolerated in our society and are legislated against.

When I read your posts, it reminds me more of Royston Vasey than Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meF7NmfnXZ0

starshine1234 · 23-08-2016 05:19PM

Akrasia wrote: »

If we stop migration into Ireland, other countries would be perfectly entitled to prevent Irish migrants from working abroad, and then we'll have much bigger problems the next time there's an economic crisis and suddenly we find that there are hundreds of thousands of Irish people who are unemployed with nowhere to go to find work.

This is wrong, from several points of view.

Firstly, we don't have a 'tit for tat' immigration policy, and nor should we.

If other countries want to do something I'm certainly not going to interfere, or attempt to stop them, or be judgemental about them, unless they are doing something especially despicable.

That was my point. We should be less judgemental. If other countries want to do something that's a matter for them and for their society. It is nothing to do with us.

It's cringe worthy to see the likes of Enda Kenny lecture America on how they should deal with illegal Irish immigration to America. Let America deal with its problems and Enda can deal with ours. But of course it seems that Enda can't deal with anything at all, hence his absence from public life.

smacl wrote:

You might be happy enough with xenophobia, but hatred and incitement to hatred aren't tolerated in our society and are legislated against.

Hate is not legislated against. It is prefectly legal to hate things and people.

I never said I was happy that the Irish are xenophobic. I said I accepted it as a fact that the Irish were, in fact, xenophobic. Most people are xenophobic to some degree.

I said I didn't intend to be judgemental and I don't constantly seek to judge people or to berate them for how they feel.
I accept xenophobia in people because it is entirely natural. It may not be nice but that's not the point. I don't intend to be excessively judgemental all the time.

smacl · 23-08-2016 06:04PM

I'm religious and support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

Hate is not legislated against. It is prefectly legal to hate things and people. I never said I was happy that the Irish are xenophobic. I said I accepted it as a fact that the Irish were, in fact, xenophobic. Most people are xenophobic to some degree.

I said I didn't intend to be judgemental and I don't constantly seek to judge people or to berate them for how they feel.
I accept xenophobia in people because it is entirely natural. It may not be nice but that's not the point. I don't intend to be excessively judgemental all the time.

Incitement to hatred is illegal though, and I would suggest xenophobia is more cultural than natural, just as other forms of hatred and intolerance such as homophobia, sexism and racism are elsewhere. Also the fact that a piece of behaviour is natural or instinctive does not make it acceptable or excusable; we live in a civilised society and our behaviour is limited as to what is socially acceptable. We're more than just animals.

As for borders and immigration, we're part of Europe, so really need to consider these issues on a pan European basis. While you might think we could pull a Brexit, however bad it has been for them, it would in all probability be considerably worse for us and I'd imagine emigration would greatly exceed immigration at that point.

Akrasia · 23-08-2016 06:28PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

starshine1234 wrote: »

This is wrong, from several points of view.

Firstly, we don't have a 'tit for tat' immigration policy, and nor should we.

If other countries want to do something I'm certainly not going to interfere, or attempt to stop them, or be judgemental about them, unless they are doing something especially despicable.

My point was that we can't have our cake and eat it. Ireland is one country that has benefited enormously from economic migration, and so have the countries where Irish people ended up. If the racists and xenophobes in America and Britain, and Australia, and Canada, and everywhere else had their way, the irish wouldn't have been allowed in, and they would have suffered, and Ireland would never have became the modern open economy that we are today.

That was my point. We should be less judgemental. If other countries want to do something that's a matter for them and for their society. It is nothing to do with us.

You're saying we shouldn't be judgemental towards the racists and xenophobic people in Ireland, we should respect their right to prejudge all immigrants and prevent them from coming here because of their assumption that they will be nothing but terrorists and criminals and scroungers.

It's cringe worthy to see the likes of Enda Kenny lecture America on how they should deal with illegal Irish immigration to America. Let America deal with its problems and Enda can deal with ours. But of course it seems that Enda can't deal with anything at all, hence his absence from public life.

Enda's a pain in the hole, how is this an argument against immigration?

Hate is not legislated against. It is prefectly legal to hate things and people.

Private hatred only harms the person who hates something. If the local shopkeeper hates gay people, it doesn't affect anyone else except himself and his own relationships with people around him. But if he turns that hatred into discrimination against gay people, then he's breaking the law.

Hatred isn't always bad, you can hate child abuse, and funnel that hatred into action to protect children for example, but it's generally a negative emotion that people should try to control unless it overcomes them and turns them into hate filled people that nobody else wants to have around.

I never said I was happy that the Irish are xenophobic. I said I accepted it as a fact that the Irish were, in fact, xenophobic. Most people are xenophobic to some degree.

Even if that's true, modern standards of ethics and the social contract mean that we need to tolerate some people who we don't particularly like so that we can live in a more harmonious world.
(obviously, there is a limit to this tolerance, before it becomes appeasment and pandering, but that limit needs to be where innocent people are harmed by the actions of others)

I said I didn't intend to be judgemental and I don't constantly seek to judge people or to berate them for how they feel.
I accept xenophobia in people because it is entirely natural. It may not be nice but that's not the point. I don't intend to be excessively judgemental all the time.

But you're on here saying that you want to shut down all economic migration into Ireland.... This is a little bit more than just 'accepting' that some people 'feel' xenophobic. It's an extremist position of xenophobia itself, and if implemented, it would have enormous consequences for Irish citizens and people from outside who are looking to contribute positively to our society and our economy.

Akrasia · 23-08-2016 06:37PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

smacl wrote: »

Xenophobia is defined as fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign. You could argue that homophobia is a form of xenophobia as it is a hatred of something some people found strange. You might be happy enough with xenophobia, but hatred and incitement to hatred aren't tolerated in our society and are legislated against.

When I read your posts, it reminds me more of Royston Vasey than Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meF7NmfnXZ0

We didn't burn him!

recedite · 23-08-2016 06:43PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

Akrasia wrote: »

Even if that's true, modern standards of ethics and the social contract mean that we need to tolerate some people who we don't particularly like so that we can live in a more harmonious world.

If we meet them abroad we need to tolerate them, in the interests of harmony.
We don't don't need to import them here. That reduces harmony and increases the risk of conflict.
Would you invite somebody to share your own living accommodation knowing that you were not going to be compatible?
If it doesn't work at a personal household level, then it doesn't work at a national level either. A certain amount of immigration is fine, but we need to be choosy about our housemates. Otherwise it will end badly.

smacl · 24-08-2016 07:25AM

I'm religious and support the ban

recedite wrote: »

We need to be choosy about our housemates. Otherwise it will end badly.

How big's your house? Ireland? EU?

magicbastarder · 24-08-2016 11:55AM

I'm religious and support the ban

the photos appearing this morning really are ludicrous though. armed police ordering women to take clothing off.

silverharp · 24-08-2016 12:00PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

the photos appearing this morning really are ludicrous though. armed police ordering women to take clothing off.

it sounds like the start of a bad porno

jackofalltrades · 24-08-2016 12:41PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

magicbastarder wrote: »

the photos appearing this morning really are ludicrous though. armed police ordering women to take clothing off.

Is the fact that they were armed really noteworthy in a country where the practice is commonplace?
The headlines seem a bit sensationalist.

magicbastarder · 24-08-2016 01:04PM

I'm religious and support the ban

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Is the fact that they were armed really noteworthy in a country where the practice is commonplace?

it does add a bit to the power of the image.

MrPudding · 24-08-2016 01:25PM

I'm non-religious and do not support the ban

magicbastarder wrote: »

it does add a bit to the power of the image.

Does it though?

magicbastarder wrote:

the photos appearing this morning really are ludicrous though. armed Normally equipped police ordering women to take clothing off.

If all the police are armed, then what is the point of saying police in a particular intervention were armed? It doesn't actually add anything, and if anything it is actually misleading as it implies something "special" happened or that particular person was treated somehow differently.

In the UK the police force is predominantly unarmed. When we hear on the news "armed police responded to a call" we automatically think a certain way about the incident, because an armed police response is not the norm.

I don't think it adds anything to the story to point out that the police were carrying their standard equipment, nor to I think it adds to the power of the image. When all the cops are armed then armed cops are just cops.

MrP

magicbastarder · 24-08-2016 01:30PM

I'm religious and support the ban

MrPudding wrote: »

Does it though?

yes.

magicbastarder · 24-08-2016 01:32PM

I'm religious and support the ban

'if you're explaining, you're losing'.
an image of an armed policeman ordering a woman to change her clothes is clearly going to pack a bit more punch than an image of an unarmed policeman doing so.
the argument that french police are usually armed is not encapsulated in the image.

Burka ban

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