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Marie Stopes clinic suspends services

  • 21-08-2016 12:55AM
    #1
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭


    I am shocked and appalled that clinics providing medical services to women seeking abortions have been found to have such serious failings, services have been suspended with immediate effect, from providing abortions to the following groups of women:

    -Suspended termination of pregnancy provision for under-18s and vulnerable groups of women.
    -Suspended terminations under general anaesthetic or conscious sedation (over 12 weeks pregnant)
    -Suspended all surgical terminations at their Norwich centre.



    The Care Quality Commission has raised a number of concerns over patient safety.
    The issues raised were poor governance arrangements, leading to what it called "specific immediate concerns" about consent and safeguarding.

    It was not satisfied about training and competence for terminations which take place under general anaesthetic or conscious sedation


    Each year 70,000 terminations are carried out at Marie stopes clinics with an estimated 10, 000 Irish women being treated. Inspections of clinics only started in March of this year. I don't think it's acceptable to have medical treatment in what appears to be a sub standard environment.

    The UK Government has informed Marie Stopes International that Ministers will not give approval for further clinics in accordance with their statutory role to offer termination services until the CQC are satisfied that their concerns have been fully addressed.

    Women are being accomadated in other clinics and they are trying to minimise the effect of the suspension of services, although some women, especially those closer to the time limit maybe effected. There is a helpline to call from ireland in the nhs link below.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-37135380

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/2016/08/marie-stopes-int-clinics/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/19/marie-stopes-suspends-some-abortion-services-over-safety-issues
    http://www.thejournal.ie/marie-stopes-abortion-services-suspended-2938689-Aug2016/


    It's not the first time practices at marie stopes has come under controversy.


    Women have died after leaving the clinic
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/medics-face-trial-after-irish-woman-dies-after-abortion-1.2255918

    A doctor struck off after botching an abortion
    http://m.independent.ie/world-news/europe/doctor-struck-off-as-abortion-nearly-kills-irish-woman-26798027.html


    Marie stopes advocates that no doctors needs to see a patient before a termination, even thought the government recommends two.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10575108/Abortion-on-demand-gets-Government-green-light.html

    I find it interesting that there is not more discussion from rights organisations about this. Many women who have received sub standard care find it difficult to raise a complaint in case they are labelled "anti abortion". Often valid complaints are ignored.

    I think Irish services should stop recommending this clinic to women seeking a termination with immediate effect.

    Do you think that Irish services should stop recommending this clinic to women seeking terminations?


«134

Comments

  • #2
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    You made this thread yesterday, and it got locked.


  • #3
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    You made this thread yesterday, and it got locked.

    Wasnt him that made it.


  • #4
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,417 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Yawn


  • #5
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Wasnt him that made it.

    Twas


  • #6
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Wasnt him that made it.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057637081


    Looks like it was.


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  • #7
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    If you want OP I can forward you some details of Repeal The Eight organisations. We'd welcome your support on eventually getting to the situation whereby women didn't have to go to other jurisdictions.


  • #8
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Anyone got any opinions on the services and standard of care being provided?


  • #9
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Stheno wrote: »
    Twas
    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057637081


    Looks like it was.

    Your right, apologies, thought it said 'MilesMorales1' as OP.


  • #10
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    Smondie wrote: »
    Anyone got any opinions on the services and standard of care being provided?

    I think its a disgrace women have to travel to the UK for abortions and the service isn't offered here, yeah.


  • #11
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    If you want OP I can forward you some details of Repeal The Eight organisations. We'd welcome your support on eventually getting to the situation whereby women didn't have to go to other jurisdictions.
    Are you happy for them to receive sub standard care in other jurisdictions?





    Yes there was a thread earlier, now there is a new thread with a neutral title, considered opinion and planning permission. Focus people!


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  • #12
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »



    Each year 70,000 terminations are carried out at Marie stopes clinics with an estimated 10, 000 Irish women being treated.

    2015 stats from the Uk Dept of health show that 3451 women with an Irish address presented for an abortion clinics in the UK that year.

    https://www.ifpa.ie/Hot-Topics/Abortion/Statistics

    Where are you getting your figure, which appears to be vastly inflated?
    Make the rest of your post rather suspect.


  • #13
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Smondie wrote: »
    Are you happy for them to receive sub standard care in other jurisdictions?

    Will you support efforts for them to be able to have the procedure in this jurisdiction?


  • #14
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Stheno wrote: »
    Smondie wrote: »



    Each year 70,000 terminations are carried out at Marie stopes clinics with an estimated 10, 000 Irish women being treated.

    2015 stats from the Uk Dept of health show that 3451 women with an Irish address presented for an abortion clinics in the UK that year.

    https://www.ifpa.ie/Hot-Topics/Abortion/Statistics

    Where are you getting your figure, which appears to be vastly inflated?
    Make the rest of your post rather suspect.
    I think the guardian had the figure. It still doesn't detract from the fact that services at the clinics have been suspended.


  • #15
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »
    I think the guardian had the figure. It still doesn't detract from the fact that services at the clinics have been suspended.

    So you can't provide backup to your statement that has been shown to be false with a link to official statistics?

    Makes a nonsense of your entire argument.


  • #16
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »
    Yes there was a thread earlier, now there is a new thread with a neutral title, and falsfied facts with no backup to justify the statements.. Focus people!

    FYP


  • #17
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Stheno wrote: »
    Smondie wrote: »
    I think the guardian had the figure. It still doesn't detract from the fact that services at the clinics have been suspended.

    So you can't provide backup to your statement that has been shown to be false with a link to official statistics?

    Makes a nonsense of your entire argument.
    If it was 10, 000 or 3000 or even a million, services have still been suspended.


  • #18
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »
    If it was 10, 000 or 3000 or even a million, services have still been suspended.

    I'm not taking any poster seriously who posts spurious figures that they can't back up


  • #19
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    [

    Will you support efforts for them to be able to have the procedure in this jurisdiction?
    Here you are proving my point in the op. By raising valid concerns, which have been publicised by the care quality comission, I am immediately presumed to be anti abortion.


  • #20
    roy rodgers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭roy rodgers


    i have a cheap pair of knitting needles available


  • #21
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »
    Here you are proving my point in the op. By raising valid concerns, which have been publicised by the care quality comission, I am immediately presumed to be anti abortion.

    Your op is neither pro nor anti, instead it's just a pile of generalisations.

    From your bbc link
    Marie Stopes has now decided to:

    • suspend termination of pregnancy provision for under-18s and vulnerable groups of women

    • suspend terminations under general anaesthetic or conscious sedation

    • suspend all surgical terminations at its Norwich centre

    So they will still provide abortion via the abortion pill, they will still do terminations for over 18s surgically in all but their Norwich clinic.

    It will affect 250 women per week, who will otherwise be accomodated in other clinics.

    That's a total of less than 13000 women per year out of the 70000 they currently see per year.

    Your op smacks of sensationalism.

    Personally I think it's great that inadequate care is being called out and that the organisation responsible have put measures in place to deal with that.

    We rarely see that with our HSE tbh


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  • #22
    Dubl07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Dubl07


    Smondie wrote: »
    I think the guardian had the figure. It still doesn't detract from the fact that services at the clinics have been suspended.

    Doesn't detract from the fact that Irish citizens don't have the right to proper medical treatment within their own jurisdiction.

    That trumps any discussion about English clinics dealing with Irish issues.


  • #23
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Dubl07 wrote: »
    Smondie wrote: »
    I think the guardian had the figure. It still doesn't detract from the fact that services at the clinics have been suspended.

    Doesn't detract from the fact that Irish citizens don't have the right to proper medical treatment within their own jurisdiction.

    That trumps any discussion about English clinics dealing with Irish issues.

    Who said it did detract from anything?

    It doesn't surprise me that women who have had bad experiences with these clinics are intimated to speak out about thier experiences. Do you think Irish services should stop recommending this clinic?


  • #24
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,782 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Dubl07 wrote: »
    Doesn't detract from the fact that Irish citizens don't have the right to proper medical treatment within their own jurisdiction.

    That trumps any discussion about English clinics dealing with Irish issues.

    Most abortions are not for medical reasons.


  • #25
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »
    Who said it did detract from anything?

    It doesn't surprise me that women who have had bad experiences with these clinics are intimated to speak out about thier experiences. Do you think Irish services should stop recommending this clinic?

    Which? The one in Norwich which has suspended all surgical services, or the ones which are still offering services?


  • #26
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Stheno wrote: »

    Which? The one in Norwich which has suspended all surgical services, or the ones which are still offering services?

    Which ones are still offering termination of pregnancy provision for under-18s and vulnerable groups of women or terminations under general anaesthetic or conscious sedation (over 12 weeks)?

    I'll think you'll find these services have been suspended in all marie stopes clinics aswell as the surgical services in Norfolk been suspended.


  • #27
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »
    Which ones are still offering termination of pregnancy provision for under-18s and vulnerable groups of women or terminations under general anaesthetic or conscious sedation (over 12 weeks)?

    I'll think you'll find these services have been suspended in all marie stopes clinics aswell as the surgical services in Norfolk been suspended.

    Aside from the under 18s I think you'll find that a large majority of abortions these days are via the abortion pill and pre 12 weeks.

    Given that it affects about 18.5% of total patients, that equates to a total at a maximum of 630 Irish women being affected per year, if the issue were to go on that year.

    So it's kind of a non issue, I'm fairly sure you'll find that the links of the ifpa will be referring people to clinics without the issues.

    Did you check for any statements from them in relation to this? Or did you just want to sensationalise?


  • #28
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Most abortions are not for medical reasons.

    Even in the UK abortion on demand is not the spirit of the legislation. Certain conditions are supposed to be met. Rogue clinics and doctors have mostly ignored the spirit of the leglislation.


  • #29
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Stheno wrote: »
    Smondie wrote: »
    Which ones are still offering termination of pregnancy provision for under-18s and vulnerable groups of women or terminations under general anaesthetic or conscious sedation (over 12 weeks)?

    I'll think you'll find these services have been suspended in all marie stopes clinics aswell as the surgical services in Norfolk been suspended.

    Aside from the under 18s I think you'll find that a large majority of abortions these days are via the abortion pill and pre 12 weeks.

    Given that it affects about 18.5% of total patients, that equates to a total at a maximum of 630 Irish women being affected per year, if the issue were to go on that year.

    So it's kind of a non issue, I'm fairly sure you'll find that the links of the ifpa will be referring people to clinics without the issues.

    Did you check for any statements from them in relation to this? Or did you just want to sensationalise?
    You think it's a non issue, fair enough. If you read my op ypu will see that I already adressed the fact that women were being refered to other clinics ;)


  • #30
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smondie wrote: »
    Even in the UK abortion on demand is not the spirit of the legislation. Certain conditions are supposed to be met. Rogue clinics and doctors have mostly ignored the spirit of the leglislation.

    And would you not agree the situation you have outline shows that regulation and inspection is working to ensure that the spirit of the legislation is being adhered to?

    It's kinda like posting that your favourite takeaway is closed cos it breached a food safety issue. Frankly I'd welcome the independant oversight, and applaud the very public admission of action shown in this case.


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  • #31
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Stheno wrote: »
    And would you not agree the situation you have outline shows that regulation and inspection is working to ensure that the spirit of the legislation is being adhered to?

    It's kinda like posting that your favourite takeaway is closed cos it breached a food safety issue. Frankly I'd welcome the independant oversight, and applaud the very public admission of action shown in this case.
    Inspections only began last march. Inspectors at the marie stopes clinic found breeches of protocols so serious that services were suspended with immediate effect.

    Why don't you tell the women that are booked in this week that's equilivant to thier favourite take away being closed? I doubt they'd agree on that.


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