Is it salvageable

baby and crumble · 16-08-2016 10:22AM

TBH OP I don't know what you're thinking you're going to get from this thread. Lots of folks have told you that they'd be very suspicious, and that there are piles of warning signs and you're just ignoring that and defending her. You've not even been going out a month for goodness sake.

LegacyUser · 16-08-2016 10:24AM

Ok, well, first of all you didnt say she asked for the money. You offered, no? So, what 22 year old is going to refuse that? Especially if she is the open / honest type she probably took you at your word, at 22 if someone offered me something I would have assumed that they were happy to do so. I wouldnt take it now, but at that age you don't think that maybe the person was just offering out of politeness. It sounds to me like she is living with her ex because she knows him, and deposits take a long time to save up (if you don't get it back for any reason) and while she is paying you back she will not be able to save up anything for the time being. Also, renting anywhere in any type of accommodation is extremely expensive for anyone who isn't well off financially. I work self-employed and can just about cover rent in a house-share, and groceries, bills etc. It is a struggle in this country right now if your job doesn't pay well, and you don't live at home. Sometimes there can also be a good reason for not living at home, such as a dangerous area, abusive person at home, etc. Personally it sounds to me like she just speaks/texts before thinking (which i do myself so I can see how it could be innocent). I know it seems dodgy for someone to take 500 euros when offered from someone they've only known a short time, but given her age I'd say its not that unusual, at that stage you haven't necessarily learned all the unwritten rules of society. Now, I could be totally wrong, but i'd say get to know her properly before writing her off, she'll probably not understand where you're coming from and think that you're writing her off because she is poor. Maybe you could encourage her to find a better-paying job?

Stupify · 16-08-2016 10:27AM

baby and crumble wrote: »

TBH OP I don't know what you're thinking you're going to get from this thread. Lots of folks have told you that they'd be very suspicious, and that there are piles of warning signs and you're just ignoring that and defending her. You've not even been going out a month for goodness sake.

Fair enough, really I just wanted peoples opinions on the situation, I wanted to know if others had experience with something similar and what the outcome was.

I'll try talking to her today and see what comes of it, I'll obviously be very careful with what I say but I don't think she's going to take anything I say in a good way.

A mod can close this now.

Esel · 16-08-2016 10:29AM

She may be look for a reason to fall out with you.

Don't be on the back foot.

Big Bag of Chips · 16-08-2016 10:38AM

Stupify wrote: »

I really don't get the impression from her that she asks a lot of people for money, I do feel that she's just in a bit of trouble right now with her car breaking down all of a sudden. At least that's my hope.

But you paid for that, so she's not really out of pocket because of it. If her car hadn't broken down, she still wouldn't have had petrol money! Why hasn't she petrol money? A tenner would do her! How long do you know her? You're going out a few weeks, but have you known her a lot longer? How did she live day to day before you came along? Where did she get petrol money then?

You seem determined to apologise and make yourself out to be at fault. That'll suit her perfectly.

Ursus Horribilis · 16-08-2016 10:45AM

If you get back with her, don't loan her any more money and see how good she is at paying back this loan. You obviously like her and want to think the best of her. That's understandable. But you're only dating a month so you hardly know her. People who get money out of others rarely have horns on their heads. They are likeable, they're good at telling a story and they can be manipulative. So don't let your love goggles blinker you if there is something suspicious going on.

batmanrobin · 16-08-2016 10:52AM

She doesn't need to move out for you, but she needs to do it for herself. She can't afford to live day to day. When that's the case, you move somewhere cheaper or you move home.

Honestly she should have asked family for that €500 if she was so stuck, not you. You've only been dating a wet weekend.

If you do decide to continue things with her, don't lend her any more money. If she talks about how stretched for cash she is sympathise with her but that's all.

Proceed with caution.

Stupify · 16-08-2016 11:11AM

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

But you paid for that, so she's not really out of pocket because of it. If her car hadn't broken down, she still wouldn't have had petrol money! Why hasn't she petrol money? A tenner would do her! How long do you know her? You're going out a few weeks, but have you known her a lot longer? How did she live day to day before you came along? Where did she get petrol money then?

You seem determined to apologise and make yourself out to be at fault. That'll suit her perfectly.

Well, I think after reviewing this thread I'll take a harder stance when I talk to her today.

Sunny Dayz · 16-08-2016 11:19AM

Stupify wrote: »

Absolutely, I'm not expecting her to move out today or tomorrow but just from the one discussion we had she said she would not be moving out until the lease was up, and that's 9 months away so it just felt strange to me that she would live with her ex for that long.

So assuming they signed a one year lease and you have been going out for a month, either they broke just after moving in or she starting seeing you quite soon after her relationship ended with her ex. I think you said earlier in the thread that she recently moved out of home and didn't realise how expensive it could be. So she must have been serious enough with her previous boyfriend to move in with him. But 3 months into the lease they are split and she's now going out with you?!

Stupify · 16-08-2016 11:21AM

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

So assuming they signed a one year lease and you have been going out for a month, either they broke just after moving in or she starting seeing you quite soon after her relationship ended with her ex. I think you said earlier in the thread that she recently moved out of home and didn't realise how expensive it could be. So she must have been serious enough with her previous boyfriend to move in with him. But 3 months into the lease they are split and she's now going out with you?!

Yeah, they split not long after they moved in together. I don't know what the circumstances were but they are still on talking terms obviously.

batmanrobin · 16-08-2016 11:33AM

Stupify wrote: »

Yeah, they split not long after they moved in together. I don't know what the circumstances were but they are still on talking terms obviously.

I guess that explains the door slamming.

It sounds a bit like you might be the rebound. My rule of thumb is to wait at least 6/7 months before getting involved with someone who is recently broken up.

IMO you'd be doing everyone involved a favour if you left things for a while. As in, break up. Lot of head melting behaviour going on.

Stupify · 16-08-2016 11:39AM

batmanrobin wrote: »

I guess that explains the door slamming.

It sounds a bit like you might be the rebound. My rule of thumb is to wait at least 6/7 months before getting involved with someone who is recently broken up.

IMO you'd be doing everyone involved a favour if you left things for a while. As in, break up. Lot of head melting behaviour going on.

I didn't want it to come to breaking up but I think you're right.

woodchuck · 16-08-2016 11:47AM

Stupify wrote: »

Well, I think after reviewing this thread I'll take a harder stance when I talk to her today.

You did offer her the money though, so I'm not sure what kind of hard stance you plan to take? I know she may have been fishing for it and she shouldn't have accepted it, but I think you just have to chalk this one up to a life lesson. Loaning someone money is always a very bad idea, never mind someone you've only known a month!

Personally I would just knock this one on the head (far too many red flags so early on) and move on. If you can get your money back great, but you took a big risk loaning it and you might just have to accept that you won't see it again.

squonk · 16-08-2016 12:30PM

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be, for loan oft loses both itself and friend". Very wise words. You'll probably never see your 500 quid again OP.

I think you're getting played here. To me, she's using the classic conman tactic on you. Con men don't just rock up and ask for sums of money. There's usually some sort of dilemma like "Oh if only I had 1000 quid I could get a hospital place for my sick mother but I've just lost my job and I can barely cope as is. What should I do?" That plays on the kind hearted who will help.

I would sooner ask my parents for money than ask a friend, let alone anyone I was seeing and especially in the early days of seeing them. One month in you're still feeling each other out and trying to put your best foot forward, or you should be. I wouldn't dream of asking my parents or even a long term partner for money. Catastrophes will happen occasionally but most people will have savings in place to smooth out the bumps. Why couldn't she have gone to get a loan for the 500 from a bank or credit union?

Furthermore, when you accused her of using you seeing as she's now looking for more money, she got annoyed. If I'd borrowed from somebody I wouldn't be going back for more and if they accused me of wanting to use them, I'd absolutely have to agree that it was certainly how it looked but, god forbid if I ever ended up in that position, I'd have a long chat with them to reassure them. Taking the huff is all well and good with 500 in your pocket that you mightn't have to repay now. Another question for you OP. If you had listened to her problems but not ponied up the 500 quid, do you think you'd still be going out with this girl? I suspect she'd have moved onto the next person who was more amenable to her persuasions.

It doesn't matter that you live with your parents. It doesn't matter that you have a good job. It doesn't matter if you are paid more and it doesn't matter if you have the cash sitting there right now doing nothing. Nobody should be asking you for loans and if you offer the money to someone they really shouldn't be taking it if they're interested in you as a friend or something more in the longer term. Get rid of this girl. Try and get your money back if you can but I'd doubt you'll see a penny of it. Take it as an expensive mistake and learn from it. She's not interested in really standing on her own feet and she'll always have someone there who will have to bail her out. Responsible people don't live like that.

Stupify · 16-08-2016 12:42PM

woodchuck wrote: »

You did offer her the money though, so I'm not sure what kind of hard stance you plan to take? I know she may have been fishing for it and she shouldn't have accepted it, but I think you just have to chalk this one up to a life lesson. Loaning someone money is always a very bad idea, never mind someone you've only known a month!

Personally I would just knock this one on the head (far too many red flags so early on) and move on. If you can get your money back great, but you took a big risk loaning it and you might just have to accept that you won't see it again.

Well I think the hard stance I refer to is more along the lines of I won't be a doormat and be overly apologetic.

I've already come to terms about the money too.

Stupify · 16-08-2016 12:46PM

squonk wrote: »

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be, for loan oft loses both itself and friend". Very wise words. You'll probably never see your 500 quid again OP.

I think you're getting played here. To me, she's using the classic conman tactic on you. Con men don't just rock up and ask for sums of money. There's usually some sort of dilemma like "Oh if only I had 1000 quid I could get a hospital place for my sick mother but I've just lost my job and I can barely cope as is. What should I do?" That plays on the kind hearted who will help.

I would sooner ask my parents for money than ask a friend, let alone anyone I was seeing and especially in the early days of seeing them. One month in you're still feeling each other out and trying to put your best foot forward, or you should be. I wouldn't dream of asking my parents or even a long term partner for money. Catastrophes will happen occasionally but most people will have savings in place to smooth out the bumps. Why couldn't she have gone to get a loan for the 500 from a bank or credit union?

Furthermore, when you accused her of using you seeing as she's now looking for more money, she got annoyed. If I'd borrowed from somebody I wouldn't be going back for more and if they accused me of wanting to use them, I'd absolutely have to agree that it was certainly how it looked but, god forbid if I ever ended up in that position, I'd have a long chat with them to reassure them. Taking the huff is all well and good with 500 in your pocket that you mightn't have to repay now. Another question for you OP. If you had listened to her problems but not ponied up the 500 quid, do you think you'd still be going out with this girl? I suspect she'd have moved onto the next person who was more amenable to her persuasions.

It doesn't matter that you live with your parents. It doesn't matter that you have a good job. It doesn't matter if you are paid more and it doesn't matter if you have the cash sitting there right now doing nothing. Nobody should be asking you for loans and if you offer the money to someone they really shouldn't be taking it if they're interested in you as a friend or something more in the longer term. Get rid of this girl. Try and get your money back if you can but I'd doubt you'll see a penny of it. Take it as an expensive mistake and learn from it. She's not interested in really standing on her own feet and she'll always have someone there who will have to bail her out. Responsible people don't live like that.

I got off the phone with her after a long chat, I now really do think I was wrong to accuse her of using me.

We're good now, I expressed my worries and that I wouldn't be lending her anymore money. She's going to pay me back in full this weekend she said because she doesn't want this hanging over our relationship.

It was a good talk in all and I think we worked through most of our worries, thank you everyone for your help.

squonk · 16-08-2016 12:48PM

I'm always happy to admit if I'm wrong and I wish you the best. Hopefully it'll work out for you two!!

BetsyEllen · 16-08-2016 02:34PM

Glad you got sorted OP. I wish you the best and hope your relationship turns out to be a happy one

Degringola · 16-08-2016 03:35PM

Dear OP,

It seems you have resolved issues which should not have come up in the early stages of a relationship imo.

How come she can now pay you back the full E500?

You sound like a lovely guy, nice and kind, TOO nice and kind. You minimised and excused her behaviour in your first few posts. Your reaction that she was using you was perfectly normal. (Again this is just my opinion.) She manipulated you and had you grovelling.

Had she any integrity she would have been apologising to you, but instead she sulked. Had she any pride she wouldn't have brought up the subject of money in the first place. This is harsh but is the way I see it.

Raise the bar of your expectations OP. Wishing you luck and hope it works out for you and I'm proven wrong. It's good you stood up to her and sorted it out. You've shown her you are not a pushover, but keep your eyes open. Don't be so quick to apologise for things your gut feeling is telling you are off.

Sound Bite · 16-08-2016 09:54PM

Op, have I understood this correctly?

She had no money so she had to borrow over €500 from you after a month yet she is buying a birthday present for an ex?

Are you happy that is how your money is being spent?

Maybe if she wasn't buying her ex presents she wouldn't need to borrow from you?

Alarm bells!!!

DukeOfTheSharp · 16-08-2016 10:36PM

I honestly started muttering the word 'nope' over and over again while reading your post OP, I agree with people saying you're being taken for a ride. I've dated and have known people who've dated women like your GF, and they never, ever get their act together. Ever. The fact is that moving back in with her parents is the fiscally responsible thing to do, she owes you €500 but can't afford petrol, and after a month you feel like you have to ask if she's just using you...and she throws a tantrum and punishes you? And she's still sharing an apartment with her ex? At this point you should have alarm bells ringing constantly, because this isn't healthy. She's a user OP, chances are when you take issue now she'll come out swinging that her life is hard and blah blah blah...this is a defensive stance most users take - but it's not on you. She's the one in control of her own actions, and she's the one who has made such a bags of her life that she is 'forced' to live with her ex...even when she has other options. People like this never change, she's probably using the ex too, somehow, and the chances are her parents wouldn't give her a cent if she went back home. €500 is a lot of money OP, my advice? Break up with her, but not before getting evidence of your payment of that money. If she doesn't pay you back after you end it, small claims court. You'll be used until she bleeds you dry otherwise.

mrsdewinter · 17-08-2016 01:50AM

For a 22-year-old with no financial smarts, she seems to have a great lifestyle: an apartment 'in town', a car, a boyfriend...
I don't think this girl is on the make, or not consciously so. OP says that she just talks about everything that happens over the day, so I'd say she has no concept of keeping back the unpleasant stuff, such as being broke.
But seriously, OP, just keep your mouth shut the next time she complains about money. She has to learn to cut her cloth. I've been there: early 20s, too much month, too little pay cheque. But deciding what expenses to prioritise is a life skill that she has to master for her own good.

Penny Tration · 17-08-2016 08:22AM

OP, I don't mean to be harsh here, but surely her being willing to pay you back within days shows she's taking you for a ride?

She gets 500 quid from you. She can only afford to pay it back in installments. Then she's so broke she can't afford petrol.

And now, all of a sudden, the €500 she owes you magically appears in her purse as soon as you speak to her about it?

There are two ways she has the 500 for you - either she's ripping you off and doesn't actually need money, or she's now moved on to borrowing from another person. Neither are good. One option means she's taking the P out of you, the other means she's happy to go from person to person with her hand out - not the actions of a responsible adult.

Stupify · 17-08-2016 11:05AM

Penny Tration wrote: »

OP, I don't mean to be harsh here, but surely her being willing to pay you back within days shows she's taking you for a ride?

She gets 500 quid from you. She can only afford to pay it back in installments. Then she's so broke she can't afford petrol.

And now, all of a sudden, the €500 she owes you magically appears in her purse as soon as you speak to her about it?

There are two ways she has the 500 for you - either she's ripping you off and doesn't actually need money, or she's now moved on to borrowing from another person. Neither are good. One option means she's taking the P out of you, the other means she's happy to go from person to person with her hand out - not the actions of a responsible adult.

She said that she could pay me back from working the few gigs she has this weekend, but that it'd leave her with very little left over for other bills.

During our talk yesterday I said I don't really want to talk about money issues anymore and just want to get back to us and she agreed, but late last night and all this morning it's been back to her worrying about how she's going to get the money for petrol in order to get to her gig tonight. She keeps telling me she doesn't know what to do and that she's going to sell her camera to pay for petrol. After our talk I thought this stuff would be over but I guess not and now I am incredibly disappointed.

I think I will wait till after this weekend and see if there's any sign of her paying me back, or at least see if she stops coming to me talking about her money troubles. I do really like her but I'm starting to feel like a fool and all the advice here seems to back that up.

timmy880 · 17-08-2016 11:08AM

I think I will wait till after this weekend and see if there's any sign of her paying me back, or at least see if she stops coming to me talking about her money troubles. I do really like her but I'm starting to feel like a fool and all the advice here seems to back that up.

Sounds like the right thing to do... Give yourself a bit of time and then decide. But the fact that she couldn't go 12 hours without unloading her financial burden onto you is a massive concern. I mean, if she can't afford to put a drop of petrol into her car then her situation must be disastrous. And even after you've said you'd rather not talk about it, she couldn't even do that.

BetsyEllen · 17-08-2016 11:12AM

Stupify wrote: »

She said that she could pay me back from working the few gigs she has this weekend, but that it'd leave her with very little left over for other bills.

During our talk yesterday I said I don't really want to talk about money issues anymore and just want to get back to us and she agreed, but late last night and all this morning it's been back to her worrying about how she's going to get the money for petrol in order to get to her gig tonight. She keeps telling me she doesn't know what to do and that she's going to sell her camera to pay for petrol. After our talk I thought this stuff would be over but I guess not and now I am incredibly disappointed.

I think I will wait till after this weekend and see if there's any sign of her paying me back, or at least see if she stops coming to me talking about her money troubles. I do really like her but I'm starting to feel like a fool and all the advice here seems to back that up.

So she's told you she'll pay you back, but is now trying to send you on a guilt trip because of it.
Stay firm OP - say nothing about the €500, don't be tempted to say 'ah sure, just give me €300 this week then' or something along those lines.

How the hell does she not have money for petrol? Surely these gigs have been planned for a while now, yet she didn't think to put €20 or whatever aside out of her wages?
If she has to sell her camera then let her, hopefully it will teach her a life lesson.

Gosh I would have no interest in getting into a relationship with someone like that - what a nightmare - I assume if she has no money for petrol she has no money to go on dates with you either then, so you will end up footing the bill any time the 2 of you go out.

It's up to you what you do of course but if it were me, I'd be cutting ties and moving on.

Sunny Dayz · 17-08-2016 11:15AM

Is she doing the gig on her own? Could she not get a lift with someone?

Stupify · 17-08-2016 11:15AM

timmy880 wrote: »

Sounds like the right thing to do... Give yourself a bit of time and then decide. But the fact that she couldn't go 12 hours without unloading her financial burden onto you is a massive concern. I mean, if she can't afford to put a drop of petrol into her car then her situation must be disastrous. And even after you've said you'd rather not talk about it, she couldn't even do that.

I can't even talk to her about improving her financial situation anymore as she feels I'm lecturing her, apparently this bit of petrol will solve all her worries because she can drive to her credit union and withdraw money she has there and she can get to her gig and everything will be fine again. I probably would have offered her the money tbh if I hadn't come on here yesterday.

BetsyEllen · 17-08-2016 11:22AM

Stupify wrote: »

I can't even talk to her about improving her financial situation anymore as she feels I'm lecturing her, apparently this bit of petrol will solve all her worries because she can drive to her credit union and withdraw money she has there and she can get to her gig and everything will be fine again. I probably would have offered her the money tbh if I hadn't come on here yesterday.

I think a talk about her financial situation isn't something you should address as you're a very new couple.

The part you should address, is how she burdens you with it and makes you feel guilty for her situation.
'I'll pay you back but I'll struggle with my other bills' - boohoo. You got your car fixed which dug you out of a massive hole - surely your other bills can wait.
It's her responsibility to get a lift or the bus to her gigs - if she can't afford to run a car then she can't run a car, simple as that.
She needs to learn this herself OP as we all have during our lives.

woodchuck · 17-08-2016 11:22AM

Stupify wrote: »

I can't even talk to her about improving her financial situation anymore as she feels I'm lecturing her, apparently this bit of petrol will solve all her worries because she can drive to her credit union and withdraw money she has there and she can get to her gig and everything will be fine again. I probably would have offered her the money tbh if I hadn't come on here yesterday.

Surely she can get public transport to the credit union?!

This whole thing is sounding worse and worse though. You said you didn't feel comfortable discussing her financial issues (very reasonable for the early stages a relationship) and she completely ignored this.

I might wait and see if she actually pays your money back this weekend, but it's not looking like great relationship potential

Is it salvageable

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