Do old people matter as much as younger people?

14-08-2016 04:18PM #1

I deal with a lot of British people in work, usually around my age category (late twenties) and anytime Brexit comes up in conversation, they go on tirades about the 'selfish' decision taken by elderly voters who are 'going to die soon anyway'.

When the household tax was being introduced in Ireland in 2012, advocates for the elderly often warned that it wasn't fair to ignore circumstances when elderly people happened to be living in fairly large homes, where they had raised their families and wanted to remain living. Many (and I suspect, the majority) of people insisted that if they cannot afford to pay the tax, they should move out of their homes, and sell to families who need them.

Frequently, 'pensioners' seem to be portrayed in the media as selfish and parochial. The very word 'pensioners' conjures up a cantankerous mob with a demand for entitlement, in a way that rarely applies to the sick, to refugees, or to others who genuinely need public support.

I'm uneasy with the idea that one's opinion matters less because that person only has 10 or 20 years life expectancy.

While they are here, their opinions and their needs should be regarded just as importantly as someone who may only be in their 20s, there should be no priority given to younger citizens. Popular opinion often seems far too willing to pander to the opinions of younger people.

What do you think?

Burial. · 14-08-2016 04:23PM

#OldLivesMatter

jackinthemix94 · 14-08-2016 04:24PM

Everybody should be equal BUT I understand the problem with the Brexit decision; that older people who don't have a long life expectancy have basically sold younger people down the river for the decades to come (because of outdated views about what "Great Britain" is in the 21st Century).

SeantoBarry · 14-08-2016 04:25PM

I think the younger Brits should show more respect to the generation that rebuilt the UK from rubble after World War 2.

sunbeam · 14-08-2016 04:29PM

The Brits old enough to remember the war were generally anti-Brexit, it was the following generation who were most in favour of it.

Fleawuss · 14-08-2016 04:30PM

The old curse: interesting times. We are moving into if we aren't already there of impossibly fragmented demographics and subgroups pulling in all directions.

One big worry for me is that this will be exploited by the wealthiest elite to further enrich themselves.

Donald Trump · 14-08-2016 04:32PM

Milfs ftw

Del2005 · 14-08-2016 04:37PM

Until young people get organised and more importantly vote then yes Old people matter more. Our political system, and the UK, is built on getting votes and old people vote so they get what they want.

Look at how many thousands came out when they tried to take the medical card off them, do you think that many working young people who've had more taken from them in USC/pension levy than any old person, could have gotten as big a turnout or about face from the government?

beauf · 14-08-2016 04:38PM

Awful lot of people had their greatest achievements late in late.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/618874/late-bloomers-sixty-plus-greatest-achievements-Judi-Dench-Karl-Lagerfield-Ranulph-Fiennes
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/7-late-life-success-stories

endacl · 14-08-2016 04:39PM

Burial. wrote: »

#OldLivesMatter

Username contradicts.

:pac:

Bubbaclaus · 14-08-2016 04:40PM

In the same way there is a age cut off on the young in voting (18), I think there should be an upper age limit applied to referendums.

buried · 14-08-2016 04:46PM

The auld 'divide and conquer' manoeuvre

Old vs Young
Men vs Women
West vs Muslims
Black vs White

Soon it'll be 10 yr olds vs newly born Infants

Calahonda52 · 14-08-2016 04:50PM

Del2005 wrote: »

Until young people get organised and more importantly vote then yes Old people matter more. Our political system, and the UK, is built on getting votes and old people vote so they get what they want.

Look at how many thousands came out when they tried to take the medical card off them, do you think that many working young people who've had more taken from them in USC/pension levy than any old person, could have gotten as big a turnout or about face from the government?

When they want to vote the young come out as shown in the marriage referendum or what ever it was called.

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

Everybody should be equal BUT I understand the problem with the Brexit decision; that older people who don't have a long life expectancy have basically sold younger people down the river for the decades to come (because of outdated views about what "Great Britain" is in the 21st Century).

The evidence does not point to this, it points to the services they avail of for them selves, their kids and grandkids being overrun by the folk in Nigel's poster

14-08-2016 04:52PM

A persons worth isn't calculated using age alone. Otherwise babies would be worthless because they chew up resources and contribute nothing, and yet that isn't how we measure their worth at all. Potential is the unseen value in young people, experience the unseen value in the older.

FWIW, my grandparents are worth roughly eleventy billion regular people of any age - because I say so and worth is relative. No pun intended.

Shint0 · 14-08-2016 04:54PM

In the UK at least it was the grey pound which helped lift them out of the recession as that cohort have larger disposable income and increased consumer spending power which is often associated with the mid-20s to mid 30s age group. So they can't be ignored as not contributing to the economy and just simply being a drain even if they might be higher users of the health service because of age-related illnesses.

Here in the health service I think older people can be treated shabbily and considered bed blockers. It's far easier to discharge an older person who might have a long term illness to free up bed spaces as their prognosis can be viewed as poor so they need strong advocates to represent them and give them some dignity at the end of their lives.

jackinthemix94 · 14-08-2016 05:06PM

Calahonda52 wrote: »

When they want to vote the young come out as shown in the marriage referendum or what ever it was called.

The evidence does not point to this, it points to the services they avail of for them selves, their kids and grandkids being overrun by the folk in Nigel's poster

BS, the reason services are becoming threadbare in the UK is because they have a Tory government that isn't increasing public spending proportionately to growth in population - particularly in the South.

Stigura · 14-08-2016 05:20PM

Funny. I genuinely thought it said, " Do old people natter as much as younger people? "

And I thought to myself, 'Yeah. I'm a right chatter head.'

FizzleSticks · 14-08-2016 05:26PM

This post has been deleted.

Cath54 · 14-08-2016 05:29PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

In the same way there is a age cut off on the young in voting (18), I think there should be an upper age limit applied to referendums.

Are you joking?

wakka12 · 14-08-2016 06:02PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

In the same way there is a age cut off on the young in voting (18), I think there should be an upper age limit applied to referendums.

Any reason why there should be? Theyve contributed to the economy their entire lives, they deserve to have a say in how the society theyre still living in is governed. Even if theyre going to die the day after the referendum

Eramen · 14-08-2016 06:33PM

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

Everybody should be equal BUT I understand the problem with the Brexit decision; that older people who don't have a long life expectancy have basically sold younger people down the river for the decades to come (because of outdated views about what "Great Britain" is in the 21st Century).

Hold up. Only 25% of under 30's bothered their arse to vote in the first place. Therefore they've no excuse really. Huge swathes of them weren't concerned about the issue at all but still like to complain after the fact.

In the end only they themselves are to blame, though I'm sure many would have also voted to exit the EU if they had originally bothered to vote.

Eramen · 14-08-2016 06:42PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

In the same way there is a age cut off on the young in voting (18), I think there should be an upper age limit applied to referendums.

You would simply be called a 'fascist' if I were a holier-than-thou leftist. You're lucky I'm not. :pac:

Bubbaclaus · 14-08-2016 08:39PM

Cath54 wrote: »

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

In the same way there is a age cut off on the young in voting (18), I think there should be an upper age limit applied to referendums.

Are you joking?

Nope. Take the recent Brexit vote as an example. A 17 year old had no say on the future of the UK and the vast implications it will have to their life. A 97 year old, who will never feel the effects of Brexit had a say.

Bubbaclaus · 14-08-2016 08:41PM

Eramen wrote: »

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

Everybody should be equal BUT I understand the problem with the Brexit decision; that older people who don't have a long life expectancy have basically sold younger people down the river for the decades to come (because of outdated views about what "Great Britain" is in the 21st Century).

Hold up. Only 25% of under 30's bothered their arse to vote in the first place. Therefore they've no excuse really. Huge swathes of them weren't concerned about the issue at all but still like to complain after the fact.

In the end only they themselves are to blame, though I'm sure many would have also voted to exit the EU.

Where are you getting the 25% figure from? That sounds like it was including the under 18s that weren't allowed vote, which wouldn't make any sense as a statistic.

The_Valeyard · 14-08-2016 08:44PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Nope. Take the recent Brexit vote as an example. A 17 year old had no say on the future of the UK and the vast implications it will have to their life. A 97 year old, who will never feel the effects of Brexit had a say.

A 97 year old who has probably worked his entire life, paid his taxes and contributed to the social and economical success of the country. A person who probably cares and loves their kids, grandkids and possibly great grandkids and wishes a good future for them. Of course they get a say and vote.

jackinthemix94 · 14-08-2016 08:46PM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

A 97 year old who has probably worked his entire life, paid his taxes and contributed to the social and economical success of the country. A person who probably cares and loves their kids, grandkids and possibly great grandkids and wishes a good future for them. Of course they get a say and vote.

All these people "wish a good future" and yet voted out. Rubbish. They voted with their outdated, parochial mentalities that have no place in modern society. Utterly selfish.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 14-08-2016 08:50PM

Yes they're every bit as important

Capt'n Midnight · 14-08-2016 09:03PM

Pensioners will never have it so good again. While some are in poverty a large chunk of them have defined benefit pensions and no debts. Most young people today could only dream of having that sort of disposable income while paying off a mortgage and pension that would have a similar payout.

The_Valeyard · 14-08-2016 09:14PM

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

All these people "wish a good future" and yet voted out. Rubbish. They voted with their outdated, parochial mentalities that have no place in modern society. Utterly selfish.

So, they voted in a way you did not like.

Therefore they are outdated, parochial mentalities??

No place in modern society?

That's some scary eugenic thinking right there.

Eramen · 14-08-2016 09:31PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Pensioners will never have it so good again. While some are in poverty a large chunk of them have defined benefit pensions and no debts. Most young people today could only dream of having that sort of disposable income while paying off a mortgage and pension that would have a similar payout.

Yes but wait a sec..

Most young people last year bound themselves up wholesale in a relatively unimportant 'Vote Yes' campaign. 'Unimportant' I say because said minority group equaling a few % of the population total already long-held the said equal rights for which they supposedly campaigned.

However according to CSO released this year 65% of people in the state under 35 will never be able to afford their own home, ever, period..

So where are the young people rallying around this cause in the same fashion? A cause that certainly does not revolve around a small, pampered minority, but a downright majority, including themselves directly.. Is owning your own property so one can build a life not 'edgy' and 'equality-themed' enough to fight and stand up for? Young people don't seem to be interested because RTE / The Journal etc isn't telling them what to think. Blaming or begrudging the oldies is kind of weak tbh.

Young people have proven they can 'act' if they really want to, but sadly no self-righteous moral high-horse is on offer so they couldn't be bothered. And so it's back to life-long renting. So much for our generation being the most 'educated' yet.

And yes, I'm under 30, so don't think I'm some OB. We seem to fight everyone else's battle except for our own.. it's the national pastime.

foggy_lad · 14-08-2016 09:35PM

Where would any of those younger people be if not for the efforts of older people who brought them into the world and tried to raise them with a bit of respect and compassion, it seems a lot of them failed with their children!

Do old people matter as much as younger people?

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