Dept. Of Agriculture - Frustration

Hurling Hereford · 08-08-2016 09:37PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Its a crap system, made a complaint about a teacher to the dept of eduaction, was told i hadnt followed the correct protocol..... which is talk to teacher involved, then principal, then board of management then dept of education... why would people bother

Protocol in the Dept is 1. appeal to Dept firstly 2. then appeal to Dapt's 'Independent' Appeals office

patsy_mccabe · 08-08-2016 09:40PM

Jeez, Hurling Herdford where do you work?

I sent my letter to the address that was on the letterhead of their letter.

50HX · 08-08-2016 09:41PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Jeez, Hurlingmad where do you work?

I sent my letter to the address that was on the letterhead of their letter.

i think someone is a CS

patsy_mccabe · 08-08-2016 09:42PM

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

The moratorium on recruitment to the C.S. didn't help. Experienced people leaving and not being replaced. Most civil servants don't do overtime anymore because they are taxed to the hilt or are totally peed off after a day of one person doing 3 people's work

Explain how a person can do the job of three people in an 8 hour day.
CS's pay the same tax as everyone else.

Hurling Hereford · 08-08-2016 09:45PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Jeez, Hurling Herdford where do you work?

I sent my letter to the address that was on the letterhead of their letter.

I am a beef and sheep farmer, do some welding work also. What do you work at btw?

Hurling Hereford · 08-08-2016 09:46PM

50HX wrote: »

i think someone is a CS

My missus is, in the Dept of Foreign Affairs for your information

Hurling Hereford · 08-08-2016 09:48PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Explain how a person can do the job of three people in an 8 hour day.
CS's pay the same tax as everyone else.

With difficulty, I and my kids have to live with the repercussions

50HX · 08-08-2016 09:48PM

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

My missus is, in the Dept of Foreign Affairs for your information

;)

Username John · 08-08-2016 09:58PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Explain how a person can do the job of three people in an 8 hour day.
CS's pay the same tax as everyone else.

I imagine in early, no lunch, work late... If you did that compared to people who take the piss - you'd prob get the work of 3 people done all right I'd say...

Longford Leader · 08-08-2016 10:00PM

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

You can't record any conversation without their permission and they can't record you either without your permission

If a person or any other entity records a conversation or telephone call and they are not a party to that conversation it is illegal. The only exception to this is when the third party is authorized by the government and obtains a legal and valid warrant. As say, during an investigation by the Gardai.

If a person is a party to the conversation or phone call then it is legal to record it with or without prior consent of the other parties. For telephone calls specifically, it became legal to do so in 1993.

148multi · 08-08-2016 10:17PM

Hurling Hereford wrote:

The need original signatures for auditing purposes

She could have emailed the form to cavanjack and allowed him post it back to the department with original signature.

148multi · 08-08-2016 10:24PM

Hurling Hereford wrote:

You can ask an officer for his/her name and they have to give it to you. Same way they have to give their [ersonal e-mail address if requested

Was making enquiries to the portloaise office and was put through to a senior officer who refused to give a name until I informed them that the call was being recorded.

148multi · 08-08-2016 10:27PM

Hurling Hereford wrote:

'Blue' cards are not printed in the DVOs, they send the details to a company the Dept outsourced the job to & have to weight for them to return new cards to the DVO

The cards were with the Dvo for stamping, Sam Kade didn't say anything about new passports.

rangler1 · 08-08-2016 10:28PM

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

My missus is, in the Dept of Foreign Affairs for your information

I've always found the ag guys helpful, especially Portlaoise....Farmers need to use Registered post, copies,etc...oh and a bit of cop on.
It's not always the departments fault, but those cases won't be reported on here.

148multi · 08-08-2016 10:29PM

Hurling Hereford wrote:

We can only complain about e.g. entitlement to livestock grants administered by the Department of Agriculture Food and the Marine to the Ombudsman's Office. Same goes for most other depts also

Not true.

148multi · 08-08-2016 10:34PM

Hurling Hereford wrote:

You can't record any conversation without their permission and they can't record you either without your permission

An agricultural consultant that has been involved in oral appeals against department penalties, informed me that the department record most conversations with farmers without informing them.

148multi · 08-08-2016 10:38PM

Hurling Hereford wrote:

There is an Independent Appeals Office in Portlaoise. Daddy-in-law just rattled off their number 057 8667167

I think the latest court case lost by the Department of agriculture shows just how independent the appeals office really is, maybe you should read the judges conclusion.

rangler1 · 08-08-2016 10:45PM

148multi wrote: »

I think the latest court case lost by the Department of agriculture shows just how independent the appeals office really is, maybe you should read the judges conclusion.

Was that not down to something wrong with their paper work, that case will only succeed in introducing more red tape

TheBeach · 08-08-2016 10:48PM

Good job the civil service is recruiting again. You'll all have to apply and improve the efficiency

kowtow · 08-08-2016 10:51PM

patsy_mccabe wrote:

Explain how a person can do the job of three people in an 8 hour day. CS's pay the same tax as everyone else.

In some govt. Depts I have come across a person could do it.

But it would have been frowned upon.

148multi · 08-08-2016 10:59PM

Hurling Hereford wrote:

The moratorium on recruitment to the C.S. didn't help. Experienced people leaving and not being replaced. Most civil servants don't do overtime anymore because they are taxed to the hilt or are totally peed off after a day of one person doing 3 people's work

I know most civil servants in my locality only work four days a week, I know a farmer that regularly works 18 hour days x 6 days a week, that's three times longer a working week than his CS neighbors and no coffee breaks or tantrums if asked for a meeting without an appointment.

Sheep breeder · 08-08-2016 11:06PM

TheBeach wrote: »

Good job the civil service is recruiting again. You'll all have to apply and improve the efficiency

I have a friend who works at in a Dvo in the midlands and some of the stories he tells of the stupid mistakes people make with paperwork is unreal and somebody else is to blame bar them.
and also some of the gangsters he has to deal with and the animal welfare cases is hard to stomach at times, locally one dept guy that retired a few years ago helped so many farmers locally with problems day and night outside the job and people took it for granted until he retired.
In every walk of life you have good and bad at any job.
Also for turning off a computer and back on, this has to be done to update virus systems at times.

Sheep breeder · 08-08-2016 11:12PM

148multi wrote: »

I know most civil servants in my locality only work four days a week, I know a farmer that regularly works 18 hour days x 6 days a week, that's three times longer a working week than his CS neighbors and no coffee breaks or tantrums if asked for a meeting without an appointment.

Civil servants work 5 days a week and 42 hours,
Most meetings are made by appointment,what do you do to meet your accountant, teagasc advisor,doctor etc

Base price · 08-08-2016 11:28PM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Civil servants are employed 5 days a week and 42 hours,
Most meetings are made by appointment,what do you do to meet your accountant, teagasc advisor,doctor etc

FYP :rolleyes:

148multi · 08-08-2016 11:39PM

rangler1 wrote:

Was that not down to something wrong with their paper work, that case will only succeed in introducing more red tape

Why didn't the 'independent' appeals office rule in favor of the farmer then.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 09-08-2016 12:15AM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

I have a friend who works at in a Dvo in the midlands and some of the stories he tells of the stupid mistakes people make with paperwork is unreal and somebody else is to blame bar them.
and also some of the gangsters he has to deal with and the animal welfare cases is hard to stomach at times, locally one dept guy that retired a few years ago helped so many farmers locally with problems day and night outside the job and people took it for granted until he retired.
In every walk of life you have good and bad at any job.
Also for turning off a computer and back on, this has to be done to update virus systems at times.

+1 on that.

I'll admit I get bloody confused with all the different forms and one or two officials over the years have been very good to sort out mistakes I have made and I have returned the favour also.

But the newer one seem more interested in making sure their boxes are ticked than actually helping older farmers in particular who have a lot of difficulty with the increase in paperwork.

148multi · 09-08-2016 12:17AM

Sheep breeder wrote:

Civil servants work 5 days a week and 42 hours, Most meetings are made by appointment,what do you do to meet your accountant, teagasc advisor,doctor etc

The local Dvo operate a walkin service, I have called into my accountant without an appointment for a short meeting, I have yet to see a Dvo office half as full as my doctors and he is only one, but several officials work in the Dvo. Are you implying that cs that work four 8 hour days a week, and live local are lying when they tell me they work 4 days.

Base price · 09-08-2016 12:53AM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

+1 on that.

I'll admit I get bloody confused with all the different forms and one or two officials over the years have been very good to sort out mistakes I have made and I have returned the favour also.

But the newer one seem more interested in making sure their boxes are ticked than actually helping older farmers in particular who have a lot of difficulty with the increase in paperwork.

We had a cross compliance inspection a few years ago. Two Dept Inspectors arrived, one went with OH to check the cattle/tags etc and the other stayed with me going through the herd register/medicines/movements paperwork. Both Inspectors were experienced men and knew their job. We had a pleasant morning dealing with them.
Simular to your case, there were 4 or 5 animals still "live" on their system that had been collected by the knackery in the previous months. I showed him the paperwork (Dept blue copy & knackery receipt) and the Inspector drew a line across those tag numbers on his list.
As an aside, I assist a few elderly neighbours maintain their herd/medicine registers. In fairness to them they have their Veterinary Practitioners staff driven mad making sure that they have hard copies of script's - I don't claim responsibility

rangler1 · 09-08-2016 06:53AM

148multi wrote: »

Why didn't the 'independent' appeals office rule in favor of the farmer then.

How many drink drivers get off due to wrong paperwork, it doesn't mean they're any less likely to kill anyone.
Just because the AO didn't follow correct procedure doesn't mean that the farmer passed the inspection, as i say this'll increase the red tape on everyone

Hurling Hereford · 10-08-2016 05:39PM

148multi wrote: »

I know most civil servants in my locality only work four days a week, I know a farmer that regularly works 18 hour days x 6 days a week, that's three times longer a working week than his CS neighbors and no coffee breaks or tantrums if asked for a meeting without an appointment.

The missus has asked me to inform you that was what he chose to do and that an awful lot of us farmers wouldn't last 'jig time' in the C.S. because of our attitude!

What attitude dearest?

Dept. Of Agriculture - Frustration

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