Top Spanish matador Victor Barrio gored to death in arena live on TV

Donnielighto · 11-07-2016 11:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well certainly the bulls in bullfighting seem to have a better existence than factory farmed animals.

I'm not sure about the dismissal of bullfighters as "some dopey spaniards". The bullfighters in Mexico, France etc. might not like it for starters!

1 can you back that up
2 what is the proportion of factory farmed cattle in Ireland
3 Is that just whataboutery?

Donnielighto · 12-07-2016 12:02AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Anyone who knows anything about slaughtering knows the animals need minimal stress before hand. Any stress depletes their glycogen stores which means pretty sh1tty meat (because the glycogen converts to lactic acid post mortem which tenderises the muscle/meat naturally), meaning poor prices. The market rewards humane slaughter because it yields higher quality.

Actually that's not accurate, for beef anyway. If cattle are stressed when slaughter the meat is of a better quality but looks worse (get less for it due to visuals), either way it isn't allowed.

Donnielighto · 12-07-2016 12:23AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, you missed the point.

Someone said it wasn't a sport. I linked an article by someone who claimed it was more than a sport, and whose book on bullfighting was nominated as best sports book. I didn't claim that particular book justified anything...I haven't even read it!

So you posted something in response but it wasn't a point? What was the reason for you posting it. Should we get you to state explicitly what you mean as it appears you may just throw things out for them to be picked up a certain way. I'm asking the question so that it's clear I haven't picked you up the wrong way.

Donnielighto · 12-07-2016 12:27AM

Deleted User wrote: »

You spectacularly missed the point.

I was not comparing the suffering at all. Someone suggested people go to bullfighting to see animals killed, and I merely pointed out that if that was their only motivation than they'd be queuing up at the slaughterhouse.

The point in that case wasn't communicated well. You said that if people wanted to see suffering then they'd go to an abattoir, I was pointing out that they are not the same thing. Sure if you just want to knock around on the internet making asinine points you could have an argument on twitter.

Also you spectacularly missed the main bit of my post (the first line)

Jawgap · 12-07-2016 07:35AM

Donnielighto wrote: »

Actually that's not accurate, for beef anyway. If cattle are stressed when slaughter the meat is of a better quality but looks worse (get less for it due to visuals), either way it isn't allowed.

Actually, you need to take it up with the FAO......

Guidelines for Humane Handling, Transport and Slaughter of Livestock....

The energy required for muscle activity in the live animal is obtained from sugars (glycogen) in the muscle. In the healthy and well-rested animal, the glycogen content of the muscle is high. After the animal has been slaughtered, the glycogen in the muscle is converted into lactic acid, and the muscle and carcass becomes firm (rigor mortis).

This lactic acid is necessary to produce meat, which is tasteful and tender, of good keeping quality and good colour. If the animal is stressed before and during slaughter, the glycogen is used up, and the lactic acid level that develops in the meat after slaughter is reduced. This will have serious adverse effects on meat quality.

Shenshen · 12-07-2016 09:05AM

smash wrote: »

While disagreeing with bull fighting, I'll reiterate my previous post:

The breed, yes. The species? Not so much - we'll still have bulls and cows all over the world.

Donnielighto · 12-07-2016 11:57AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Actually, you need to take it up with the FAO......

Guidelines for Humane Handling, Transport and Slaughter of Livestock....

Visually it makes it look worse but it creates more tender meat. Not advocating anything just pointing it out. And they are hardly going to sy that stressing out the animals gives nicer meat.

Edit, saw in your initial post that you mentioned about the tenderising, that's where I'm coming from.

colin produces · 12-07-2016 01:34PM

Any asshole who dies trying to torture and humiliate an innocent animal deserves what he gets.

12-07-2016 01:40PM

colin produces wrote: »

Any asshole who dies trying to torture and humiliate an innocent animal deserves what he gets.

Knew a man who tried to catch a fish.

He drowned.

You'd enjoy that.

Jawgap · 12-07-2016 02:56PM

Donnielighto wrote: »

Visually it makes it look worse but it creates more tender meat. Not advocating anything just pointing it out. And they are hardly going to sy that stressing out the animals gives nicer meat.

Edit, saw in your initial post that you mentioned about the tenderising, that's where I'm coming from.

....probably because the research wouldn't back that up

smash · 12-07-2016 03:00PM

Donnielighto wrote: »

And they are hardly going to sy that stressing out the animals gives nicer meat.

I've tried it and it's as tough as a brick.

Lady is a tramp · 13-07-2016 01:31PM

I can't say that I'm glad that he's dead, I just think it's sad that he grew up in a culture where this is considered to be an acceptable form of sport/entertainment.

It's just so cowardly. It doesn't take a big brave man to go into that ring when they know that the odds are pretty much always going to be in their favour.

There are no winners here. If anything good were to come out of the fight, it would be if his death somehow brought about changes in the country ... however if anything, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the fans get a secret thrill out of the fact that occasionally the bull might win.

I don't respect the man, but I'm not happy he's dead, and it's absolutely tragic that it happened in front of his wife and parents. Not something I imagine they'll ever get over.

Titzon Toast · 13-07-2016 02:54PM

Live by the sword, die by the bull.

Donnielighto · 13-07-2016 07:14PM

Jawgap wrote: »

....probably because the research wouldn't back that up

smash wrote: »

I've tried it and it's as tough as a brick.

Fair enough, will just make two clarifications, 1 this is second hand I was going by and it was specifically that stress just before slaughter causes acids that increase tenderness and taste. It's moot really as it shouldn't happen

13-07-2016 10:40PM

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

It's just so cowardly. It doesn't take a big brave man to go into that ring when they know that the odds are pretty much always going to be in their favour.

Ah in fairness, they can sustain horrific goring injuries and they risk being killed.

I certainly would not spend my time drawing a bull closer and closer until they are just circling me. I wouldn't even enter a field with animals like that.

People may think it cruel...but that does not remove the bravery.

Christy42 · 14-07-2016 12:21AM

weisses wrote: »

In certain circumstances yes ... And bullfighting is one of them

Pamplona the same ...The more injuries the better

I was once chatting to a man who said he wanted to run and get injured in the run with the bulls (but not killed obviously). He wanted to get injured (or at least hit by one of the bulls) for the story.

Personally I figure it better not to have the story. No idea if he ever did it or not.

i won't take happiness in this death though. Odds are if the same man had been born elsewhere he would be against bull fighting and I can't guarantee that I would be against it if I was born there. I disagree with the practise though.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-07-2016 12:29AM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

All the high and mighty brigade should spend an afternoon in an abatoir to see what animal suffering is..

I worked in one for two years, there's little (if any) suffering.

As for the matador ~ he knew what he was doing was very dangerous, I won't say 'fook him' because that would be disrespectful to him and what he does. But I will say 'Tough sh*t Paddy :P

kowloon · 14-07-2016 03:19AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Not surprised it was on Spanish TV mind you. Worst Television… in the woooorld *clarkson voice*

Scorchio!

SeantheMan · 14-07-2016 04:56AM

FINISH HIM !! ....FATALITY !

Jamsiek · 05-08-2016 01:15AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

End result is the same so who really gives a ****e what happens before hand.

A lot of people "give a ****e" though

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The bull has zero comprehension of what is happening to it.It doesn't understand it's being taunted for peoples entertainment.

How do you know this? Did you ask the bull?

evolving_doors · 05-08-2016 01:28AM

He ain't 'Top' no more.

Jamsiek · 05-08-2016 01:42AM

smash wrote: »

To ban bull fighting would in turn make this species extinct.

Not necessarily, I'm sure sanctuaries could be built?

Christy42 · 05-08-2016 01:58AM

smash wrote: »

The thing about the debate on the 'sport' is that the Spanish fighting bull is a specific breed, which is bread solely for fighting. To ban bull fighting would in turn make this species extinct.

Just saw this now. It would make the breed extinct. Not the species. The species would be fine. There are many examples of said species living in Ireland. Breeds of dog come and go and it isn't treated as a massive deal.

The_Valeyard · 05-08-2016 02:46AM

Christy42 wrote: »

Just saw this now. It would make the breed extinct. Not the species. The species would be fine. There are many examples of said species living in Ireland. Breeds of dog come and go and it isn't treated as a massive deal.

Isnt the mixing of breeds a good thing though? stronger genes, like purebred dogs tend to suffer more joint and muscular problems than mutts? Unless thats an urban legend.

Christy42 · 05-08-2016 09:36AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Isnt the mixing of breeds a good thing though? stronger genes, like purebred dogs tend to suffer more joint and muscular problems than mutts? Unless thats an urban legend.

It is entirely true but there are plenty of breeds of Bull. One won't make a difference.

Wibbs · 05-08-2016 10:34AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Isnt the mixing of breeds a good thing though? stronger genes, like purebred dogs tend to suffer more joint and muscular problems than mutts? Unless thats an urban legend.

They kinda do and they don't TV. From what I've been reading because many of the purebred breeds are so slack jawed banjo playing inbred, many of the mixes have the same problems. In some ways a mutt can be more of a problem as you don't know which genetic failure is going to present. So with a "pure" German Shepherd for example you're almost guaranteed hip dysplasia, but with a mongrel with that in the mix it's a coin toss.

In short, what with inbreeding(inc reputable breeders BTW), crap food and some dodgy vet practices, we've fucked our dogs up and it's a bloody disgrace.

Top Spanish matador Victor Barrio gored to death in arena live on TV

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