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The Guardian is in trouble

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  • #92
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    two wheels good wrote: »
    Really? Would you care to name a few - with the same breadth of coverage - that are available in my local newsagents; or online for that matter.

    The Independent.

    Winning a Pulitzer Prize isn't much good if people don't think its output is worth paying for. Incidentally, that's an American award so it's unfair to compare the Guardian with its British contemporaries on that basis. It also shared that prize with The Washington Post.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #93
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    fits wrote: »
    Exactly. I think we wont value what we have until its gone. Who will fund investigative journalism in the middle east for example. Conor O'Clery's book was really enlightening, precisely because there are very few journalists like that nowadays, media outlets cant afford to fund them. And then where do we get our information from? Facebook?

    Robert Fisk has spent significant portions of his life reporting from the Middle East and has worked for both The Independent and The Times, the latter before Murdoch took it over.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #94
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,039 ✭✭✭✭fits


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Robert Fisk has spent significant portions of his life reporting from the Middle East and has worked for both The Independent and The Times, the latter before Murdoch took it over.

    I know, but where are the future Robert Fisks going to come from?


  • #95
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    fits wrote: »
    I know, but where are the future Robert Fisks going to come from?

    I don't know but the Guardian certainly doesn't have a monopoly there.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #96
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,039 ✭✭✭✭fits


    The Independent nearly went bust already too. And as I mentioned earlier, rightly or wrongly, there are questions about its current owners.


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  • #97
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    fits wrote: »
    The Independent nearly went bust already too. And as I mentioned earlier, rightly or wrongly, there are questions about its current owners.

    Whatever about the owners, I've liked The Independent the few times I've read it. It would seem that amassing a media empire is the only way to guarantee a publication's future.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #98
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    The Independent.

    Winning a Pulitzer Prize isn't much good if people don't think its output is worth paying for. Incidentally, that's an American award so it's unfair to compare the Guardian with its British contemporaries on that basis.

    Is that it,? Just the one, the Independent - which is only available online these days AFAIK.
    As an ex-reader and admirer of the Independent I can tell you it hasn't matched the Guardian for many years.

    Winning a Pulitzer Prize is not to be sniffed at, I'd say. A good indicator of quality. Yet you say The G "doesn't cut it" .

    Phone hacking , NSA\GCHQ snooping, climate change reporting. Panama Papers, Jonathan Aitken lies - just a few topics off the top of my head. What other paper comes close to The G's reporting on these.
    If articles on feminism are so repellant to other posters on this thread I suggest these as alternatives.


  • #99
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    two wheels good wrote: »
    Is that it,? Just the one, the Independent - which is only available online these days AFAIK.
    As an ex-reader and admirer of the Independent I can tell you it hasn't matched the Guardian for many years.

    You can't blame me for the lack of variety on your local newsagent's shelves.
    two wheels good wrote: »
    Winning a Pulitzer Prize is not to be sniffed at, I'd say A good indicator of quality. Yet you say The G "doesn't cut it".

    I didn't "sniff at" it at all. However, that'll not be much good when expenses need paying and the paper is in debt.
    two wheels good wrote: »
    Phone hacking , NSA\GCHQ snooping, climate change reporting. Pananma Papers, Jonathan Aitken lies - just a few topics off the top of my head. What other paper comes close to The G's reporting on these.
    If articles on feminism are so repellant to other posters on this thread I suggest these as alternatives.

    I'll grant that the Guardian did break the phone hacking scandal but, as I said before, there are other newspapers out there many of them better.

    I don't object to articles on feminism. I do, however object to being labelled as privileged by someone who works in an industry where private schooling and wealthy parents are almost a prerequisite.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #100
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #101
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    You can't blame me for the llack of variety on your local newsagent's shelves..

    That's exactly why the loss of THe G would be bad news. Jeez!


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  • #102
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    two wheels good wrote: »
    That's exactly why the loss of THe G would be bad news. Jeez!

    Despite the fact that people rarely purchase physical news publications anymore? I can access the New Statesman's website from most places with an internet connection. Doesn't matter if local shops have it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #103
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't object to articles on feminism. I do, however object to being labelled as privileged by someone who works in an industry where private schooling and wealthy parents are almost a prerequisite.

    My comment re feminism articles was clearly addressed to "other posters on this thread". No idea what the "privileged label" is all about. I must have overlooked those posts.


  • #104
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    two wheels good wrote: »
    My comment re feminism articles was clearly addressed to "other posters on this thread". No idea what the "privileged label" is all about. I must have overlooked those posts.

    No. You quoted me when you posted that. I responded.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #105
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Despite the fact that people rarely purchase physical news publications anymore? I can access the New Statesman's website from most places with an internet connection. Doesn't matter if local shops have it.

    The New Statesman- is that your second suggestion as an "idealogical similar outlet"? But it's a weekly mag not a daily newspaper and doesn't offer breaking news reporting with global scope.


  • #106
    two wheels good
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Please see my earlier list of topics where the Guardian's reporting has excelled.
    Of course the G's quality can lapse. I refer you to their Errors and Corrections column. Also you'll find plenty of click-bait acticles on their site.
    But that's not a convincing reason to welcome the closure and loss of the paper - or any paper.


  • #107
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    The Guardians coverage of the New Years Eve mass sexual assaults across Europe was amazing. It only took them six days to report it, and when they did, they did their best to downplay it, and switched the comments off. Good old Guardian...


  • #108
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    I like some of the Guardian's Art coverage, I have a quick look at their: 'Listen up' feature now and then, musicians picking out what music excites them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/series/listen-up


  • #109
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    two wheels good wrote: »
    The New Statesman- is that your second suggestion as an "idealogical similar outlet"? But it's a weekly mag not a daily newspaper and doesn't offer breaking news reporting with global scope.

    Perhaps the paper magazine is only released weekly but the website is updated daily.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #110
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Saipanne wrote: »
    The Guardians coverage of the New Years Eve mass sexual assaults across Europe was amazing. It only took them six days to report it, and when they did, they did their best to downplay it, and switched the comments off. Good old Guardian...

    Out of interest when did other UK media outlets report it?


  • #111
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Out of interest when did other UK media outlets report it?

    Oh, they all delayed. But The Guardian is an amazing Pulitzer prize winning periodical, which is in constant search for the truth*






    *unless it reflects badly on Islam.


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  • #112
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Oh, they all delayed. But The Guardian is an amazing Pulitzer prize winning periodical, which is in constant search for the truth*






    *unless it reflects badly on Islam.

    Ah, ok. It just took me a few seconds to put the terms "new years sex assaults" into the Guardian engine which revealed several pages of results, among them several articles with up to 6,000+ comments BTL. But anyway.


  • #113
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Ah, ok. It just took me a few seconds to put the terms "new years sex assaults" into the Guardian engine which revealed several pages of results, among them several articles with up to 6,000+ comments BTL. But anyway.

    Not when the news was first released. But anyway.


  • #114
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    Can't wait for this rags demise.


  • #115
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Saipanne wrote: »
    Not when the news was first released. But anyway.

    Indeed. But I guess if you are being judged by much higher standards than your competitors, you are probably doing something right.


  • #116
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Indeed. But I guess if you are being judged by much higher standards than your competitors, you are probably doing something right.

    Yes, the assumed higher standards of their brainwashed followers. And not enough of them, it seems! Poor Guardian...


  • #117
    Bob24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Out of interest when did other UK media outlets report it?

    Just checked on Google News out of curiosity:
    - No mention on the 1rst
    - No mention on the 2nd
    - No mention on the 3rd
    - Some media start mentioning it on the 4rth (In terms if UK "mainstream" media I see the Daily Mail)
    - Some more mainstream media mention it on the 5th (BBC, Huffington post, The Times, ...)
    - It is all over the media on the 6th (and the Guardian publishes a first article)


  • #118
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Bob24 wrote: »
    Just checked on Google News out of curiosity:
    - No mention on the 1rst
    - No mention on the 2nd
    - No mention on the 3rd
    - Some media start mentioning it on the 4rth (In terms if UK "mainstream" media I see the Daily Mail)
    - Some more mainstream media mention it on the 5th (BBC, Huffington post, The Times, ...)
    - It is all over the media on the 6th (and the Guardian publishes a first article)

    First one was probably this one on the 5th, same as most other mainstream media outlets, though The Guardian supposedly should be better than that.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks


  • #119
    Bob24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    First one was probably this one on the 5th, same as most other mainstream media outlets, though The Guardian supposedly should be better than that.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks

    Cheers, somehow my Google search didn't return that one.

    Also adding to this ... of course I only checked Google News in English. First reports in German which clearly mention the nature and scale of the event are from the 3rd (there are some reports from the 2nd but they seem unclear). So overall few UK media picked it up the day after the German media started to clearly mention large scale sexual assault from people with migrant backgrounds, and the rest including the Guardian waited another day.


  • #120
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #121
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Bob24 wrote: »
    Cheers, somehow my Google search didn't return that one.

    Also adding to this ... of course I only checked Google News in English. First reports in German which clearly mention the nature and scale of the event are from the 3rd (there are some reports from the 2nd but they seem unclear). So overall few UK media picked it up the day after the German media started to clearly mention large scale sexual assault from people with migrant backgrounds, and the rest including the Guardian waited another day.

    Yeah, to be honest I don't know why the German media and then the foreign press were slow to run with it. It was only through the pressure of social media, I think, that they were belatedly forced to properly address it. Of course the conspiracy theorists have their own ideas about the whole thing, but just let's get this clear here - The Guardian is more to blame than anyone else!


This discussion has been closed.
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