Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe that every self-respecting person in the country would like the truth to come out on this little child's disappearance.
The story should not be politicised. Nobody owns the story. This could have been the child, sister or niece of any of us. The child and her family deserve justice.

Is it possible for the family take a civil action against the alleged perpetrator and thus force the case into the open. Then all the evidence, especially the evidence that is not in the public domain, could be presented in court? Just wondering.

I think having the Gardai simply bringing the main suspect in for questioning would make most people happy, as the Gardai would then have hopefully scrutinised the suspect's movements and story around 1977 more closely, which could help Gardai make an informed decision on whether the suspect should be pursued further.

The problem right now for most people, is that this person has never actually been questioned as a suspect, despite former Gardai and others seemingly all coming to the conclusion that this person should be considered the main suspect.

People want the truth and justice, I don't think anybody wants an innocent person wrongly jailed for something they didn't do. I would prefer Gardai to investigate the potential suspect before taking a civil action, as a failure to do so could weaken any potential civil case down the road.

DonegalTech wrote: »

I think having the Gardai simply bringing the main suspect in for questioning would make most people happy, as the Gardai would then have hopefully scrutinised the suspect's movements and story around 1977 more closely, which could help Gardai make an informed decision on whether the suspect should be pursued further.

The problem right now for most people, is that this person has never actually been questioned as a suspect, despite former Gardai and others seemingly all coming to the conclusion that this person should be considered the main suspect.

People want the truth and justice, I don't think anybody wants an innocent person wrongly jailed for something they didn't do. I would prefer Gardai to investigate the potential suspect before taking a civil action, as a failure to do so could weaken any potential civil case down the road.

I agree with all that but how long do they have to wait for that to happen? Another 40 years? I don't know if they have enough evidence for a civil case either but a good solicitor should determine that. These people need closure.

I was just making a suggestion. A lot of witnesses may die before they answers.

Is there an actual Cold Case really re-examining the case?

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely it should be a question of TV3 asking Gemma?
If she bore the costs of making the documentary, and RTE are billing her for using foorage from their archives, she'd hardly hand it to any channel for free?

She's a journalist. This is how she earns her living. I don't know her, but I doubt very much if she'd be willing to hand it over, even if we were to ignore the editorial issues?
Didn't she say she wanted editorial control?

this is why I believe she refused it to RTE who were interested in it after the trailer came out , and also because she has a complaint in against them for not covering the case adequately .

She has every right to earn whatever she can from it, I hope she does, she sunk enough money into it herself.

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

The second paragraph is interesting and something I haven't thought of, I dont know if its happened in Ireland before, Its something ill ask about and maybe something the legal-heads on here might know the answer to.

Im no legal expert but a civil case should be possible so long as you can prove damages. It would be putting the cart before the horse though as normal procedure is to let the Gardai prove the case and when thats done a family can take a civil action for damages. AFAIK a civil action would not result in the suspect being held to account in prison terms, its just there to adjudicate on damages. However it would be pretty difficult for the Gardai not to act if the suspect admitted guilt during a civil action.

Also another aspect is that you believe that this suspect will admit the crime under questioning. If the Gardai are unwilling to do this then a civil action could very well be an option because if the suspect is as shaky as you say they are then they would crack under sustained questioning from a good barrister. However for such a case to be accepted by the courts there would have to be good evidence that he is actually suspect beyond hearsay and what people in the family/community feel. Finally a civil action has a lower burden of proof than a criminal trial, in criminal you have to prove it "beyond a reasonable doubt", with civil it is "on the balance of probabilities" that the jury must decide upon.

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

She has every right to earn whatever she can from it, I hope she does, she sunk enough money into it herself.

I doubt she has made a penny from it so far, 150,000 Youtube views certainly would not pay a whole lot, perhaps €50 or €100. The only way I can see Gemma making any kind of decent money here is to write a book. But for that to happen the case must first get resolved.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im no legal expert but a civil case should be possible so long as you can prove damages. It would be putting the cart before the horse though as normal procedure is to let the Gardai prove the case and when thats done a family can take a civil action for damages. AFAIK a civil action would not result in the suspect being held to account in prison terms, its just there to adjudicate on damages. However it would be pretty difficult for the Gardai not to act if the suspect admitted guilt during a civil action.

Also another aspect is that you believe that this suspect will admit the crime under questioning. If the Gardai are unwilling to do this then a civil action could very well be an option because if the suspect is as shaky as you say they are then they would crack under sustained questioning from a good barrister. However for such a case to be accepted by the courts there would have to be good evidence that he is actually suspect beyond hearsay and what people in the family/community feel. Finally a civil action has a lower burden of proof than a criminal trial, in criminal you have to prove it "beyond a reasonable doubt", with civil it is "on the balance of probabilities" that the jury must decide upon.



I doubt she has made a penny from it so far, 150,000 Youtube views certainly would not pay a whole lot, perhaps €50 or €100. The only way I can see Gemma making any kind of decent money here is to write a book. But for that to happen the case must first get resolved.

Thanks for that.. very insightful stuff and opens up the idea of some future possibilities . I'm sure my cousin`s legal team will be aware of this but its still worth asking them are they.

The legal team will know for sure if it is an avenue worth pursuing. Dont forget though that civil actions come with a financial risk, you would want to be very sure that witnesses testifying are certain of their evidence because if the case were lost not only would that be the end of any chance of justice but also costs would be awarded against you.

Any civil action could be done in the Circuit Court which is nowhere as near as expensive as the High Court but still 2 or 3 days in the Circuit with a solicitor on each side as well as a junior and senior barrister on each side too could easily rack up costs of €20k-€30k. There are of course ways to reduce this- because your case has national attention a good solicitor might be able to find a barrister to do this pro-bono under a human rights agenda. If a barrister looked at the files/evidence and was confident he could win the case he might take it on for free on the basis that he will still get paid so long as he wins the case and gets awarded costs. A case with such a high profile would certainly be attractive to a barrister looking to further his career and gain some national attention.

Im aware of another high profile case currently being taken by a civil action where the State allowed a patient in a mental institution out when he was suffering psychosis. They released him with zero medication and he had an episode and murdered a family member, something he told his doctors he would do in advance yet they still released him. The solicitor I know running it has three barristers all working for free as theyre confident of a result so it is possible, provided your solicitor has the right contacts or if not, is resourceful enough to find them.

bubblypop wrote: »

The ' cold case' unit has had two successes in recent years.
The murder is Brian McGrath, where his wife & son in law were prosecuted.
And the murder of Phylis Murphy were the murderer was successfully prosecuted.

That is really heartening to hear

Going Forward wrote: »

Don't normally reply to my own posts (talking to myself etc) but I think G is starting to leak little bits of what she has on video but didn't broadcast.

There's no way she'd be claiming M Collins is saying things without having proof.

This is the second time she's let something out.
And I'm open to the thought that she has his full approval.

At least I'd like to think that.

Failing that she'll have had him sign a release form to permit her to use whatever material he's participated in one way or another.

If he said something else on video than he is now saying in public then im sure she will bring it out in the open

Id hazard a guess he had to sign release forms for all footage that was shot of his interview

The Introduction of the 1985 RTE documentary has surfaced online

https://vimeo.com/177310026

Part 3 https://vimeo.com/177387275
Part 4 https://vimeo.com/177409310

Start building hen houses, the chickens are coming home to roost.

I remember hearing many years ago that amusement arcade machine supplies in Ireland were controlled by the Mafia (the actual Mafia).