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2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭LostinKildare


    Amerika wrote: »
    Didn’t the Trump campaign fire Roger Stone over a year ago because Stone wanted to use the campaign for his own personal publicity?

    From April 19, "The Return of Roger Stone":
    Late last month, Trump appointed veteran GOP strategist and lobbyist Paul Manafort -- Stone's longtime friend and business partner, dating back to the Reagan years -- to lead his fight for delegates. Sources close to all three men say Stone played a role in that appointment, which gave him a new lifeline into Trump's campaign.
    Stone also heads "The Committee to Restore America's Greatness," a pro-Trump super PAC that has redirected its mission "to help stop the Republican establishment from stealing the Presidential nomination" from Trump . . .
    While Trump and his campaign can claim no connection with Stone -- after all, he left the campaign last August -- those who know the two men say that they speak regularly, and that Stone is an influential voice in Trump's ear.
    "Roger is never too far away from Trump ... He's always talking to Donald," a source close to both men said. "Roger and Trump always wind up finding their way back to each other," said another. . . .
    So Stone left in August, less than two months after the campaign launched. But he never really was gone. He was not ousted, as was originally reported, nor was he forced into exile, as some journalists would claim. He was always there, on the sidelines, talking to Trump on a regular basis, planting stories in the press, influencing things where he could, several sources said. . . .
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/19/politics/roger-stone-donald-trump/index.html

    What has Stone been up to on behalf of Trump since he was "fired" from the campaign? A selection, with references (individual links in the original Media Matters list, linked below):
    Stone Helped Place Paul Manafort In A Top Trump Campaign Role. Stone introduced and recommended Paul Manafort, a top Trump campaign aide, to the business magnate. On April 6, Stone said of their relationship: “My partner Paul Manafort, partner of 15 years, a friend of mine of almost 50 years, someone I’ve known since childhood, is without any question the single best convention organizer and strategist in the country.” Stone was a partner with Manafort in the lobbying firm Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly. [Media Matters, 4/14/16; Rolling Stone, 4/18/16]

    Stone Has Helped Trump With Campaign Strategy After Leaving Campaign Role. Stone’s book The Clintons’ War on Women has served as a playbook for Trump’s attacks on Hillary Clinton purportedly being an "enabler" of "one of the great woman abusers of all time," President Bill Clinton. Stone also helped with other campaign strategies, including recommending Paul Manafort and telling Trump to appear on the program of conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. [Media Matters, 4/14/16]

    Stone Now Heads The Pro-Trump Super PAC Committee To Restore America’s Greatness. Stone formed the group in December with the goal of electing Trump because he “can save this country.” [Media Matters, 4/20/16; Reuters, 12/18/15]

    Stone Said He And Trump “Talk On A Semi-Regular Basis.” [Media Matters, 4/14/16]

    Stone Pledged To Release The Hotels And Hotel Room Numbers Of Anti-Trump Delegates. Stone claimed that Republicans were trying to “steal” the nomination from Donald Trump at the convention and set up an organization called Stop The Steal to prevent that from happening. During an April 4 interview, Stone said, “We will disclose the hotels and the room numbers of those delegates who are directly involved in the steal.” Stone’s remarks sparked harsh criticism and rebukes from Republicans, who labeled his remarks dangerous and a call to incite violence. [Media Matters, 4/5/16, 4/6/16; The Washington Post, 4/8/16]

    Stone Believes The Conspiracy Theory That Sen. Ted Cruz’s Father Was Tied To The JFK Assassination. After Trump linked Ted Cruz’s father to John F. Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, Stone tweeted: “100% correct about Ted Cruz father's connection to Lee Harvey Oswald! Eat it Lyin' @tedcruz.” Stone made similar remarks in the media tying Cruz’s father to the assassin. [Twitter.com, 5/3/16; Mediaite, 5/4/16]

    Stone: JFK Jr. “Was Murdered By The Clintons Because He Was In The Way.” Stone is writing a book based on his conspiracy theory that the Clintons murdered John F. Kennedy Jr., who died in a 1999 plane crash accident. Stone stated on a radio program: “I have coming up next year a book which I make the case that John F. Kennedy Jr. was murdered. And he was murdered by the Clintons because he was in the way. Now I have extraordinary new evidence that nobody else has seen.” [Media Matters, 4/12/16]

    Stone Is A Regular Guest On The Program Of Leading 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist Alex Jones. Stone has frequently appeared on The Alex Jones Show and allied with Jones to tout Trump’s candidacy and promote pro-Trump rallies at the Republican National Convention. Jones is a conspiracy theorist who believes the government was behind the 9/11 attacks and other national tragedies including the Oklahoma City bombing and shootings in Aurora, CO, and Newtown, CT. [Media Matters, 5/3/16]

    Stone Co-Authored Anti-Clinton Book With A Fringe Conspiracy Theorist With A History Of Racist And Sexist Writings. Stone co-authored the book The Clintons' War on Women with Robert Morrow. Morrow is a fringe conspiracy theorist who has wished death on Hillary Clinton and been visited by the Secret Service; posted bizarre sexual writings about the former secretary of state; called Chelsea Clinton a "slut" and imagined how she would "have sex one day" with Bill Clinton; complained about "pro-****** JUDICIAL ACTIVISM"; and claimed the Bush and Clinton families were involved in murders and drug-running. He revels in using the word “******” on his Twitter account. [Media Matters, 9/3/15; Twitter.com, 5/3/16, 5/3/16, 5/3/16]

    PolitiFact: Stone Voting Fraud Claim Is “Pants On Fire” False. PolitiFact investigated Stone and his Committee to Restore America's Greatness after they “said there were over 600 reports of Texas votes for Trump virtually all getting tallied for Rubio.” The investigative site concluded “there’s no there there--not even a whisper of one.” [PolitiFact, 4/11/16]

    Radio Host Mark Levin: “Roger Stone Is A Thug. He’s A Sleazeball. … And He’s A Hatchet Man For Donald Trump.” [Breitbart.com, 4/8/16]

    Glenn Beck: “Roger Stone Is One Of The Worst People In The World.” Beck criticized Stone after he wrote a piece claiming Beck was paid off for his endorsement of Cruz. Beck then read some of Stone’s racist tweets on air. [Premiere Radio Networks, The Glenn Beck Program, 4/15/16]

    Numerous Right-Wing Commentators Criticized Stone And His Hotel Room Plan As Inciting Violence. Conservative pundits harshly attacked Stone after he pledged to disclose the hotels and hotel room numbers of anti-Trump delegates at the Republican National Convention. They called Stone's plan an effort to "intimidate delegates" and "another example of how Trump relies on thug tactics and violence," said he was "willfully inciting violence," and suggested it could lead to someone getting shot. [Media Matters, 4/6/16]
    http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/05/09/comprehensive-guide-trump-ally-roger-stone-racist-sexist-conspiracy-theorist/210303

    And I left out a lot --- especially the really crude racism and misogyny.
    Amerika wrote: »
    An interesting read from The Hill which shows how the Clinton campaign tricked Kahn into smearing Trump.

    Interesting only for the shamelessness of its insult of Khan's dignity and intelligence. As well as the readers' intelligence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    From April 19, "The Return of Roger Stone":

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/19/politics/roger-stone-donald-trump/index.html

    What has Stone been up to on behalf of Trump since he was "fired" from the campaign? A selection, with references (individual links in the original Media Matters list, linked below):


    http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/05/09/comprehensive-guide-trump-ally-roger-stone-racist-sexist-conspiracy-theorist/210303

    And I left out a lot --- especially the really crude racism and misogyny.

    Seems that story should be filed right next to the one about DNC staffer Seth Rich being gunned down en route to a meeting with the FBI over plans to testify against Hillary Clinton.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭LostinKildare


    Trump's veterans' affairs advisor, Al Baldasaro, is escalating Stone's smear of Khan:

    https://twitter.com/Al_Baldasaro/status/760122785448558592

    https://twitter.com/Al_Baldasaro/status/760122082323795968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/08/01/3803814/trump-al-baldasaro-khizr-khan-muslim-brotherhood/

    Somehow I don't think this is gonna help with the veterans vote. There are 22 million vets in the U.S. and they vote. One of the oldest and largest veterans' organizations, Veterans of Foreign Wars, today released an angry statement:
    Trump has a history of lashing out after being attacked, but to ridicule a Gold Star Mother is out-of-bounds, said the new national commander of the near 1.7 million-member Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States and its Auxiliary. “Election year or not, the VFW will not tolerate anyone berating a Gold Star family member for exercising his or her right of speech or expression,” said Brian Duffy, of Louisville, Ky., who was elected July 27 to lead the nation’s oldest and largest major war veterans organization. “There are certain sacrosanct subjects that no amount of wordsmithing can repair once crossed,” he said. “Giving one’s life to nation is the greatest sacrifice, followed closely by all Gold Star families, who have a right to make their voices heard.”
    http://www.vfw.org/News-and-Events/Articles/2016-Articles/VFW-Supports-Gold-Star-Families/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Amerika wrote: »
    But the media mostly ignores them in lieu of bashing Trump at every step, and apparently refuses to even commit resources into them, other than an occasional pooh-poohing of any stories that could hurt the Clintons in a major way. So political ideology continues to trump profits for the majority of the media. But it does comes at a price in viewers mistrust of the media being able to report in a fair and unbiased manner, and in the continued downfall of the media.

    This is the same old dirge as the last election.

    The right wing cant talk about their ideology because its so unpopular instead they prattle on about how the media doesnt give them the coverage they deserve.

    The realist is "The Media" only has so much capacity to keep rehashing endless unsubstantiated rumours from the right wing scaremongers.

    Benghazi/syria.egypt. yes. we get it.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    What I have difficulty to understand with is the jibes made at Trump by the public auditorium.

    Still waiting for you to support your claim that Democrats want to eliminate immigration controls.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    What is a Gold Star family?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    What is a Gold Star family?

    The fella trump is slagging off won a gold star medal in the military.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    What is a Gold Star family?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Star_Families_for_Peace

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Star_Mothers_Club

    Families of Military that died in Iraq/Other conflicts


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    This is the same old dirge as the last election.

    The right wing cant talk about their ideology because its so unpopular instead they prattle on about how the media doesnt give them the coverage they deserve.

    The realist is "The Media" only has so much capacity to keep rehashing endless unsubstantiated rumours from the right wing scaremongers.

    Benghazi/syria.egypt. yes. we get it.


    In a recent poll, 49% of likely U.S. voters think most reporters are biased negatively against Trump, and 18% believe most reporters are biased negatively against Clinton.

    And story after story only confirms their views. Here's just one example: How many times has the media asked Ivanka about her father's treatment of women, and how many times has the media asked Chelesa about her father's treatment of women or her mother's enabling thereof? (I don't expect an answer from anyone here because it will just reinforce my claim.)

    Media bias against Republicans and for Democrats is just the way it is here, no matter how much some wish to argue against the obvious.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/voters_see_more_anti_trump_pro_hillary_bias_in_media


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    What is a Gold Star family?

    They are family's who have had people die in combat. That's why it's despicable that trump is going after this Muslim family they had a son who died in Iraq. But their problem is that they criticised the Donald and the Donald doesn't take criticism very well.....

    All it would have taken was to say to this family in the first place was nothing but just thank them for their sacrifice and what a hero their son was. Problem gone. BUT the Donald can't keep his mouth shut.

    The Donald's mouth keeps writing cheques that his political career can't cash....

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Still waiting for you to support your claim that Democrats want to eliminate immigration controls.

    You would not have a problem with deporting criminals now would you.

    Full Answer

    Here are some quotes from prominent Democrats on the topic of immigration:
    "Mexican, Central American and Caribbean leadership wanted my assurances that there would be no mass deportations. I gave it to them, but also said we had to enforce our immigration laws."Bill Clinton, 2004
    "We need to fix America's broken immigration system, to grow our economy and give undocumented youth and their families the chance to earn their citizenship."Barack Obama's official website
    "Our immigration system is broken, and we have an obligation to work on it until we fix it."Joe Biden

    In addition, Democrats believe in speeding up the process of legal immigration for immediate relatives of U.S. citizens. They also believe in holding employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    You would not have a problem with deporting criminals now would you.

    Full Answer

    Here are some quotes from prominent Democrats on the topic of immigration:
    "Mexican, Central American and Caribbean leadership wanted my assurances that there would be no mass deportations. I gave it to them, but also said we had to enforce our immigration laws."Bill Clinton, 2004
    "We need to fix America's broken immigration system, to grow our economy and give undocumented youth and their families the chance to earn their citizenship."Barack Obama's official website
    "Our immigration system is broken, and we have an obligation to work on it until we fix it."Joe Biden

    In addition, Democrats believe in speeding up the process of legal immigration for immediate relatives of U.S. citizens. They also believe in holding employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants

    How is any of that eliminating immigration controls ?


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Under the Democratic platform all Muslims all 1 billion of them are allowed to arrive in America no vetting let them in. The same goes for Mexico.
    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Full Answer

    Here are some quotes from prominent Democrats on the topic of immigration:
    "Mexican, Central American and Caribbean leadership wanted my assurances that there would be no mass deportations. I gave it to them, but also said we had to enforce our immigration laws."Bill Clinton, 2004
    "We need to fix America's broken immigration system, to grow our economy and give undocumented youth and their families the chance to earn their citizenship."Barack Obama's official website
    "Our immigration system is broken, and we have an obligation to work on it until we fix it."Joe Biden

    In addition, Democrats believe in speeding up the process of legal immigration for immediate relatives of U.S. citizens. They also believe in holding employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants
    So: no, you can't back up your bizarre assertion.

    It boggles the mind, the way some people on here think they can make up blatant, bare-faced lies and not get called on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    The Fox News phenomenon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    So: no, you can't back up your bizarre assertion.

    It boggles the mind, the way some people on here think they can make up blatant, bare-faced lies and not get called on it.

    I'm not. The Democrats are not in favour in curtailing illegal immigration. Their policies get it, their policies do not advance immigration control. They openly admit the migration system is not up to scratch and they proposed the Free Trade Zone with Mexico. Trump is campaigning against that and a lot of special interests are against fundamentally reshaping America's relations with different countries. As I cited earlier Mexico is corrupt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    The Fox News phenomenon
    Also known as the CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC/MSNBC/BBC/NPR/PBS phenomenon. Just to be fair when talking about TV news perceptions.

    You play to your audience. And challenges to the reporting of the Left leaning biased reporting and disingenuous accusations is few and far between IMO.

    pew.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    I'm not. The Democrats are not in favour in curtailing illegal immigration. Their policies get it, their policies do not advance immigration control. They openly admit the migration system is not up to scratch and they proposed the Free Trade Zone with Mexico. Trump is campaigning against that and a lot of special interests are against fundamentally reshaping America's relations with different countries. As I cited earlier Mexico is corrupt.

    You also stated that Dems want to be rid of all border controls and despite repeated queries you have yet to either back up or withdraw this assertion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    I'm not. The Democrats are not in favour in curtailing illegal immigration. Their policies get it, their policies do not advance immigration control. They openly admit the migration system is not up to scratch and they proposed the Free Trade Zone with Mexico. Trump is campaigning against that and a lot of special interests are against fundamentally reshaping America's relations with different countries. As I cited earlier Mexico is corrupt.

    In the Democrat debate hosted by Univision, both Clinton and Sanders pretty much promised to quit enforcing our immigration laws altogether. Clinton said she won't deport any illegal immigrant except those with criminal records. Sanders agreed with her.

    RAMOS (Univision Moderator): And can you promise that you won't deport immigrants who don't have a criminal record?

    CLINTON: Here's what I can promise Jorge, I can promise that I will do everything possible to provide due process.

    RAMOS: But will you deport children?

    CLINTON: Let me say this. I would give every person, but particularly children, due process to have their story told. And a lot of children will, of course, have very legitimate stories under our law to be able to stay.

    RAMOS: So secretary, you seem to be defending President Obama's deportation policy. And as you know, so far he has deported more than 2.5 million immigrants. So if you really don't want to be the next deporter in chief, can you promise tonight that you won't deport children and that you won't deport immigrants who don't have a criminal record and this time, could I get a yes or no answer?

    CLINTON: Yes, you can because the question you were asking me were about children seeking asylum. And we have laws. That was the most critical thing I said. Under our laws. I would like to see those laws changed. I would like see added to them, a guaranteed counsel and other support for children.

    CLINTON: But if you are asking about everyone who is already here, undocumented immigrants, the 11-12 million who are living here, my priorities are to deport violent criminals, terrorists, and anyone who threatens our safety. So I do not have the same policy as the current administration does. I think it's important that we move to our comprehensive immigration reform, but at the same time, stop the raids, stop the round-ups, stop the deporting of people who are living here doing their lives, doing their jobs, and that's my priority.

    RAMOS: But again, yes or no, can you promise tonight that you won't deport children, children who are already here?

    CLINTON: I will not deport children. I would not deport children. I do not want to deport family members either, Jorge. I want to, as I said, prioritize who would be deported: violent criminals, people planning terrorist attacks, anybody who threatens us. That's a relatively small universe.

    RAMOS: OK. So I want to be very specific. So you are telling us tonight that if you become president you won't deport children who are already here?

    CLINTON: I will not.

    RAMOS: And that you won't deport immigrants who don't have a criminal record?

    CLINTON: That's what I'm telling you. Now I don't want -- because I'm not contradicting what I told you in the interview. Asylum is a particular legal process. I'd like to see it changed. I'd like to see us give more support to people who come fleeing the terrible violence that they do. But under our law, we have a process we have to go through which is different.

    RAMOS: So you will stop those deportations.

    CLINTON: I would stop...

    RAMOS: The deportations for children...

    CLINTON: Yes.

    RAMOS: ... and those who don't have a criminal record. CLINTON: Of the people, the undocumented people living in our country, I do not want to see them deported. I want to see them on a path to citizenship. That is exactly what I will do.

    RAMOS: Senator Sanders, would you -- can you promise us tonight that you won't deport children?

    SANDERS: Let me just say this. I don't think that the secretary fully answered your question, and I think the proof may be in the pudding. Honduras and that region of the world may be the most violent region in our hemisphere. Gang lords, vicious people torturing people, doing horrible things to families. Children fled that part of the world to try, try, try, try, maybe, to meet up with their family members in this country, taking a route that was horrific, trying to start a new life.

    Secretary Clinton did not support those children coming into this country. I did.

    Now I happen to agree with President Obama on many, many issues. I think he has done a great job as president of the United States. He is wrong on this issue of deportation. I disagree with him on that.

    SANDERS: So to answer your question, no, I will not deport children from the United States of America.

    RAMOS: And can you promise not to deport immigrants who don't have a criminal record?

    SANDERS: I can make that promise.


    So basically, according to the Democrats, if you set foot in the USA, no matter if it is by hook or by crook, you get to stay here. And the current administration has ordered Border Patrol agents to not bother arresting and deporting illegal immigrants caught crossing the border (unless they have a criminal record), according to the head of the agents’ labor union. I don’t know how better to describe an open border policy than that to US citizens.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Well I would say not turning anyone away at the border would be a requirement for an open border.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Amerika wrote: »
    In a recent poll, 49% of likely U.S. voters think most reporters are biased negatively against Trump, and 18% believe most reporters are biased negatively against Clinton.

    Why is it a problem to be biased against the worst U.S. presidential candidate in living memory?

    There's been a real problem in the media where they attempt to define 'balance' by equating reasonable, thoughtful, evidenced points of view with some lunatic with nothing but insults and conspiracy theories. I think with Trump its hit a wall - there is no way to 'balance' the debate because Trump is so poor. Rather than complaining about why the media cannot find a way to present Trump in a reasonable light, maybe its worth questioning why Trump is unable to offer the media any basis to do so. In the last week alone he is insulting the mother of a dead war hero *and* calling for hackers to attack his rival...

    How do you spin that as being a reasonable, thoughtful, evidenced point of view? I am sure the Republican strategists are pulling their hair out trying to think of a way before Trump needlessly insults another voter so let them know.


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  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The Democrats are not in favour in curtailing illegal immigration.

    But that's not what you said. Allow me to quote your own words yet again:
    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Under the Democratic platform all Muslims all 1 billion of them are allowed to arrive in America no vetting let them in.

    Now, you can keep blustering and regurgitating Republican talking points and moving the goalposts and changing the subjects. Or you can admit that you said something that's blatantly, overtly, objectively, factually untrue.

    Here's the problem with using blatant falsehoods to argue your position: they're self-evidently weak, because they're easily debunked. The only objectively valid reason to lie in support of a position is because you're emotionally invested in it, but can't think of any truthful argument in favour of it.

    So when someone says something untrue in support of a position, they're tacitly admitting that the position is weak and untenable. And when the supporters of a candidate have to lie in an attempt to buttress that candidate's policies, it's an indication that that candidate's views have no objectively valid basis.

    I await another transparent goalpost move in response.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Trump's veterans' affairs advisor, Al Baldasaro, is escalating Stone's smear of Khan:

    Wait. Wtf? Trump has a "veterans affairs advisor"?

    The train wreck of trumps relationship with the military must be the stuff of nightmares for any "veterans affairs advisor". Could it get any worse?

    The VFW are demanding trump make a public apology. He's got twenty million veterans disgusted by him right now.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Amerika wrote: »
    Also known as the CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC/MSNBC/BBC/NPR/PBS phenomenon. Just to be fair when talking about TV news perceptions.

    You play to your audience. And challenges to the reporting of the Left leaning biased reporting and disingenuous accusations is few and far between IMO.
    This whole left-leaning so-called disadvantage for Trump is absolute nonsense. Trump has been expertly playing the news media for a year now to his total advantage (to stay in the spotlight more than his competitors), while at the same time claiming to be a victim of the left-leaning media. What he has been doing was on page 56 of this Deal's playbook: say "outrageous" and "sensationalist" things and the media will flock to keep you in the spotlight. And whenever there is not a Trump report today about his latest "outrageous" thing said, tomorrow Trump will say something "outrageous" to gain media attention, while at the same time shedding big crocodile tears about the left-media. In summary, Trump is waging the biggest con of the 21st Century to win the 2016 presidency.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    But that's not what you said. Allow me to quote your own words yet again:



    Now, you can keep blustering and regurgitating Republican talking points and moving the goalposts and changing the subjects. Or you can admit that you said something that's blatantly, overtly, objectively, factually untrue.

    Here's the problem with using blatant falsehoods to argue your position: they're self-evidently weak, because they're easily debunked. The only objectively valid reason to lie in support of a position is because you're emotionally invested in it, but can't think of any truthful argument in favour of it.

    So when someone says something untrue in support of a position, they're tacitly admitting that the position is weak and untenable. And when the supporters of a candidate have to lie in an attempt to buttress that candidate's policies, it's an indication that that candidate's views have no objectively valid basis.

    I await another transparent goalpost move in response.

    I have not being lying at all. I have been issuing a catalogue of relevant concerns that show the Democrats have been very poor on curtailing the number of migrants entering the US. What have I said. I said that Jihadists have entered the US and other European countries very easily during the Democratic administration and that this will continue citing as examples that the Clintons policies is to allow them to come in further creating the atmosphere of hostility. Bring too many people into a country and your bound to get the rise of xenophobia.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    I have not being lying at all. I have been issuing a catalogue of relevant concerns that show the Democrats have been very poor on curtailing the number of migrants entering the US. What have I said. I said that Jihadists have entered the US and other European countries very easily during the Democratic administration and that this will continue citing as examples that the Clintons policies is to allow them to come in further creating the atmosphere of hostility. Bring too many people into a country and your bound to get the rise of xenophobia.

    You know we can check what you said. It is still there and we can read it right? You said 1 billion Muslims would be able to enter the US without any vetting. Oscarbravo quoted you just a page back there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Amerika wrote: »
    That would make sense but it doesn’t jibe with the facts. Benghazi, the email scandal, pay-to-play accusations regarding the Clinton Foundation while she was Secretary of State, and other scandals are made-for-big-profit stories. With Hillary’s unfavorability ratings and even polling numbers with Trump, investigative stories about Clinton’s wrongdoing would bring in big money. But the media mostly ignores them in lieu of bashing Trump at every step, and apparently refuses to even commit resources into them, other than an occasional pooh-poohing of any stories that could hurt the Clintons in a major way. So political ideology continues to trump profits for the majority of the media. But it does comes at a price in viewers mistrust of the media being able to report in a fair and unbiased manner, and in the continued downfall of the media.
    Problem is Trumps various fraud cases that he is currently on trial for, or the rape of a 13 year old child he has been accused of, have not received much coverage at all, while the ones you are throwing accusations out about have been all over the place since long before the primaries came to an end (in truth, probably before they had startes).

    You really would have to try to be any more wrong on this. What your issue seems to be, is that you don't like the media repeating what Trump said because it makes it harder to pretend he didn't. That's a whole different matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Amerika wrote: »
    In a recent poll, 49% of likely U.S. voters think most reporters are biased negatively against Trump, and 18% believe most reporters are biased negatively against Clinton.

    And story after story only confirms their views. Here's just one example: How many times has the media asked Ivanka about her father's treatment of women, and how many times has the media asked Chelesa about her father's treatment of women or her mother's enabling thereof? (I don't expect an answer from anyone here because it will just reinforce my claim.)

    Media bias against Republicans and for Democrats is just the way it is here, no matter how much some wish to argue against the obvious.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/voters_see_more_anti_trump_pro_hillary_bias_in_media

    Rasmussen!?!? :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    I'm not. The Democrats are not in favour in curtailing illegal immigration. Their policies get it, their policies do not advance immigration control. They openly admit the migration system is not up to scratch and they proposed the Free Trade Zone with Mexico. Trump is campaigning against that and a lot of special interests are against fundamentally reshaping America's relations with different countries. As I cited earlier Mexico is corrupt.
    When was the last time you applied for a working visa in the US?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Warren Buffett is one of the most successful investors in the world today, with a net worth of 63.3 billion per Forbes (2015). When managing my tiny portfolio I listen very carefully to what Buffett has to say about equities, bonds, and silver. I would never listen to Trump, given how he has a history of suspect transactions with investors, creditors, contractors, employees, and students (Trump University, etc.).

    Buffett has challenged Donald Trump to a TAX RETURN DUEL:
    "Now I've got news for him," Buffett said. "I'm under audit too, and I would be delighted to meet him anyplace, anytime, before the election."

    "I'll bring my tax return, he can bring his tax return ... and let people ask us questions about the items that are on there," Buffett added, saying Trump was "afraid" not of the IRS, but of voters.
    Of course Donald Trump will not accept Buffett's duel, because Donald has a lot to hide in his tax return, or he would have published it long ago just like all presidential nominees have done in past years. He will continue to use the excuse that he is being audited, but Buffett tossed that one out the window when he too said he was being audited at the same time. Obviously Donald Trump has something to hide, perhaps about his real indebtedness and net worth (which may be well below his bragging claims of billions), as well as his global investments when he preaches against globalisation to his believers, and the Trump products that are made outside America depriving US workers of jobs:
    • "The Trump Home glassware line is made by Steklarna Rogaska, a Slovenian company."
    • "The Trump Home furniture collection is made by Dorya Interiors, a Turkish company."
    • "The entire production process, from the moment the raw wood is cut until the product is finished or upholstered occurs in Dorya's Izmir, Turkey production facility," a Trump Home press release states.
    • "Multiple news organizations have reported about Trump's clothing line - suits, shirts and ties - being made in China, India and Bangladesh. Trump has also openly talked about his ties being made in China."
    Warren Buffett also endorsed Hillary Clinton during a Nebraska rally, and given that Warren Buffett did not leave Omaha for Manhattan like most billionaire investors, but elected to say with small city Mid-Western Nebraska family and friends, Warren is their poster-boy for success, and his endorsement may carry Nebraska for Clinton, and perhaps next door Iowa too.

    Will we see another "thin-skinned" Donald Trump burst forth with playground bully statements about Warren Buffet Tuesday, or will he mysteriously transform over-night into someone that acts presidential for the 1st time? From Mr Hyde to Dr Jekyll? Trump better be careful what he says about Buffett, who is highly respected in the Mid-West (many states that normally vote Republican).


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Is Trump laying the ground-work for being able to say that he didn't lose the Election but that it was "taken away from him"?

    Because he never loses right?


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