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2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

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Comments

  • #9092
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Trump is only a politician since June 2015.
    During the 2012 presidential campaign, Donald Trump said QUOTE: "I have spent the past several months unofficially campaigning and recognise that running for public office cannot be done half-heartedly."


  • #9093
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Black Swan wrote: »
    During the 2012 presidential campaign, Donald Trump said QUOTE: "I have spent the past several months unofficially campaigning and recognise that running for public office cannot be done half-heartedly."

    Still it is only officially last year he became a politician, but your quote shows he did some research in 2012, shows he is not stupid, and his homework has gotten him a long way so far.


  • #9094
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Trump is only a politician since June 2015.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Still it is only officially last year he became a politician, but your quote shows he did some research in 2012, shows he is not stupid, and his homework has gotten him a long way so far.

    Donald Trump officially ran in the 2000 presidential race 16 years ago, not beginning 2015. "In 1999, Trump quit the Republican Party to join the Reform Party and seek that party's presidential nomination" for the 2000 presidential race, just like billionaire Ross Perot ran for president in 1992. Donald Trump entered the race, campaigned, and won the California Reform Party primary. Officially campaigning for office and winning a 3rd party primary during the 2000 presidential election is NOT just doing "some research."


  • #9095
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Donald Trump officially ran in the 2000 presidential race 16 years ago, not beginning 2015. "In 1999, Trump quit the Republican Party to join the Reform Party and seek that party's presidential nomination" for the 2000 presidential race, just like billionaire Ross Perot ran for president in 1992. Donald Trump entered the race, won the California Reform Party primary. Officially campaigning for office and winning a 3rd party primary during the 2000 presidential election is NOT just doing "some research."

    Arnold Schwarzenegger & Bloomberg are sort of celebrity candidates like Trump. All fabulously wealthy did a lot of good for their respective states and yet are still seen as controversial in some way. Their enormous wealth and the way they use their status for their own interests. Trump is massive in America a bid deal int The Deep South, Mid West & South West adore him. Contrary to the comments against him he brings all Americans together.


  • #9096
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    ...he brings all Americans together.

    If by "all Americans" you exclude Muslims. And blacks. And hispanics. And women. And people who think his attitude to all of the above stinks.

    So, yes: he certainly brings all racist, misogynistic white Americans together.


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  • #9097
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Make love not war.

    Hillary is very bellicose towards Putin and Russia.
    Trump asks 'wouldn't it be better if we got on?' to paraphrase how he puts it.

    Hillary is the real disaster waiting to happen with Russia.

    You can't seriously be advocating that Trump would be a better President than Clinton ?

    Clinton may not be many peoples favourite but when faced with the alternative you sometimes have to hold your nose and do the right thing .

    Personally I rather like Hilary , I may disagree with her on a lot of thing , but she is someone who tries to get the job done .


  • #9098
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Trump is only a politician since June 2015.
    You must have missed the previous runs he has made for president. And besides, that's a non sequitur. Trump changed his stances right as he began running for president. Since you think Kaine is a joke for wanting to give people their choice rather than impose his own view on others (my mammy is anti abortion, pro limited choice too by the way - it's not exactly a crazy concept), by your own logic Trump is basically unelectable for the number of about-turns and 180s he has done in such a short time.

    And he called single mothers whores who should all be killed, which was just disgusting.


  • #9099
    Jimbob1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    Julian Assange has threatened more revelations

    Unless they are monumental, Hillary should be able to deflect any damage

    He must get so bored as a prisoner at the Ecuadorian embassy. Maybe he should gamble on the Swedish trial.


  • #9100
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Yes I do stand by stating that remark because America does have a major problem with Muslims and it was during the Clinton years and lets face it Hillary has the same polices as her husband it was Bill your hero's tenure in power that Jihadists found it easy to obtain entry into the US.
    So you too want all Muslims denied entry... On the basis that you think there is a major problem with them there... In other words that the situation has become intolerable and requires this kind of action to show it will not be tolerated... And this is an example of tolerance?

    Bill "your hero". Nice one, Brian. Witty.
    Your quick to dismiss Trump as a bigot and all kinds of disgusting names when infact the rise of Islamophobia occurred long before he began discussing the challenges of migration to the US. Organizations like Al Qaeda, ISIS & Al Nusra have been causing the fear and hatred.
    I'm calling him a bigot because he has said many bigoted things. And been found guilty in the courts of bigotry and racial discrimination. This is the reality of it, Brian.

    If he wants to label a nation of people as rapists, murderers, etc and also imply he has never met a "good person" from that country, saying he can only "assume" some are good people, if he wants to call to ban over 1.5 billion people from entry to the US based entirely on their religion, if he wants to deny, if he wants to refuse people to view apartments solely on the colour of their skin, if he wants to keep his black staff members segregated from his mob buddies in his casinos, if he wants to publicly state suspicions that the first black president of the US is not a US citizen, and on and on the list goes, then yes... He is going to be labelled a bigot.

    Just like if he is founding guilty of violently raping that 13 year old child and threatening their life, he will also be labeled a pedophile rapist.


  • #9101
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Billy86 wrote: »
    So you too want all Muslims denied entry... On the basis that you think there is a major problem with them there... In other words that the situation has become intolerable and requires this kind of action to show it will not be tolerated... And this is an example of tolerance?

    Bill "your hero". Nice one, Brian. Witty.


    I'm calling him a bigot because he has said many bigoted things. And been found guilty in the courts of bigotry and racial discrimination. This is the reality of it, Brian.

    If he wants to label a nation of people as rapists, murderers, etc and also imply he has never met a "good person" from that country, saying he can only "assume" some are good people, if he wants to call to ban over 1.5 billion people from entry to the US based entirely on their religion, if he wants to deny, if he wants to refuse people to view apartments solely on the colour of their skin, if he wants to keep his black staff members segregated from his mob buddies in his casinos, if he wants to publicly state suspicions that the first black president of the US is not a US citizen, and on and on the list goes, then yes... He is going to be labelled a bigot.

    Just like if he is founding guilty of violently raping that 13 year old child and threatening their life, he will also be labeled a pedophile rapist.

    Donald Trump has called on a halt of Muslims entering the country until America knows that future Muslims do not pose a threat to America's way of life. Under the Democratic platform all Muslims all 1 billion of them are allowed to arrive in America no vetting let them in. The same goes for Mexico.

    I am amazed you still have not brought up the Mexican issue I raised it was Bill Clinton that signed the NAFTA deal and many Americans have yet to see the fruits of that agreement. On the contrary wages have gone down, unemployment of the last 30 years has increased in Hispanic neighborhoods. Their is so much bad blood between communities on both sides of the border that family reunifications are even less likely today.

    A Clinton presidency will not fix America's sorted relations with the Mexicans. While Mexicans are fleeing the drug war which Trump is against the elite in Mexico are getting off lightly. Trump on Mexico
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-epic-statement-on-mexico-2015-7?r=US&IR=T. The interesting aspect of Trump is he says what he means so people coming around saying he is a bigot are merely trying to distort what he says. When he was talking about rapists all the experts on Trump are saying "Oh look he is calling all Mexicans rapists. Ah the president of Mexico is a rapist. They are all a crowd of rapists." For Christ sake he says none of the sort and you come on and allege Trump is rapist.


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  • #9102
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    t%20michael%20bloomberg%20donald%20trump%20not%20friends.jpg
    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Arnold Schwarzenegger & Bloomberg are sort of celebrity candidates like Trump.
    You are now comparing Donald Trump with Michael Bloomberg? That's a real stretch of the imagination indeed! Michael Bloomberg was self-made, Donald Trump was not. Michael Bloomberg was born middle class (bookkeeper father), and Donald Trump was born into an obscenely rich top 1% multi-millionaire family, and when his father died, Donald received millions. Michael Bloomberg was mayor of New York City 3 terms, and Donald Trump has ZERO governance, ZERO US diplomacy experience, and ZERO preparation for Commander-In-Chief of the US military, and is consequently completely unqualified for the highest office in America.

    Many of us were surprised when former Republican, now independent Michael Bloomberg endorsed Hillary Clinton, as well as speaking at the DNC last week. Afterwards, it was obvious that Donald Trump was referring to Michael Bloomberg when Donald talked like a playground bully: "I was going to hit one guy in particular, a very little guy." According to self-made billionaire and former mayor of New York City, why Bloomberg is opposed to Donald Trump:
    "When I enter the voting booth each time, I look at the candidate, not the party label," Bloomberg stated in his prime-time speech. "There are times when I disagree with Hillary Clinton. But let me tell you, whatever our disagreements may be, I've come here to say: We must put them aside for the good of our country. And we must unite around the candidate who can defeat a dangerous demagogue," he said, derogatorily referring to Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.


  • #9103
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    Julian Assange has threatened more revelations

    Unless they are monumental, Hillary should be able to deflect any damage

    He must get so bored as a prisoner at the Ecuadorian embassy. Maybe he should gamble on the Swedish trial.


    He won't stand in Sweden though. Once he lands he'll be extradited to the US. If it wasn't for that he'd have gone to Sweden years ago.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #9104
    Aph2016
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭Aph2016


    marienbad wrote: »
    You can't seriously be advocating that Trump would be a better President than Clinton ?

    Clinton may not be many peoples favourite but when faced with the alternative you sometimes have to hold your nose and do the right thing .

    Personally I rather like Hilary , I may disagree with her on a lot of thing , but she is someone who tries to get the job done .

    You rather like Hillary? So you like corruption?


  • #9105
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Aph2016 wrote: »
    You rather like Hillary? So you like corruption?

    Rubbish - I will believe she is corrupt when I see that conformed in a court of law . You know the same standard that all ye fanboys seem to demand be applied to Mr Trump.

    Has she changed her opinions on some things , reneged on some promises , led from behind on some issues ? Yeah she has - she is more an old school politician than I would like , a bit more Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon (without the paranoia etc ) than Kennedy or Obama - but that can be a good thing .


  • #9106
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Aph2016 wrote: »
    You rather like Hillary? So you like corruption?

    That doesnt really make any sense does it? Do you perhaps have a link or evidence or some details to help us understand what you're trying to say?


  • #9107
    Aph2016
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭Aph2016


    marienbad wrote: »
    Rubbish - I will believe she is corrupt when I see that conformed in a court of law . You know the same standard that all ye fanboys seem to demand be applied to Mr Trump.

    Has she changed her opinions on some things , reneged on some promises , led from behind on some issues ? Yeah she has - she is more an old school politician than I would like , a bit more Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon (without the paranoia etc ) than Kennedy or Obama - but that can be a good thing .

    I'm sorry but I was always told to never argue with an idiot, they will take you down to their level and then beat you with experience. You are past being saved.


  • #9108
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    The accusations of the democrats and their shills in the media that Russia is helping Trump is laughable.

    If our government was competent and our media honest there would be in depth investigations into Hillary Clinton compromising our US national security with the Russians for personal gain.

    Case in point Skolkovo. A Moscow based company that developed biomed, space, nuclear and IT technologies. But Skolkovo wound up making America less safe, because it has utilized the shared advanced US technology into both civilian and military applications. As of 2011, the Skolkovo Foundation has been involved in defense-related activities when it was approved the a weapons-related project, the development of a hypersonic cruise missile engine. In addition it is involved in industrial espionage.

    Who benefited from the relationship of Hillary Clinton and the Russians? Certainly not the US people. Of the 28 US, European and Russian companies that participated in the Skolkovo deal, 17 have poured tens of millions of dollars into the Clinton Foundation or sponsored outrageously paid speeches by Bill Clinton.

    I dismay that our media refuses to hold Clinton accountable for her dealing while Secretary of State. Where are the likes of Woodward and Bernstein, with their drive for truth and exposing the corruption of our government officials? As a matter of fact, where are Woodward and Bernstein?

    http://www.g-a-i.org/u/2016/07/Report-Skolkvovo-.pdf

    And is there any doubt of the media and political firestorm that would accompany even one-tenth of what has transpired, if it were a Republican SoS and all the suspect dealings with something like the Clinton Foundation? Truth be told, Hillary should probably be sitting in jail. Instead, she might be our next President. And people worry about Trump? I fear for our country with Hillary at the helm.


  • #9109
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    I think it's telling how much trumps team and his fans seem wager to forget that whole act of treason thing he did last week, when he asked the Russians to hack the US government on his behalf.


  • #9110
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Under the Democratic platform all Muslims all 1 billion of them are allowed to arrive in America no vetting let them in.

    Presumably you can link to this policy of complete abolition of immigration controls in a DNC policy document?

    I mean, it's not like you'd fabricate a complete lie from whole cloth in a desperate attempt to justify your favourite candidate's fascistic policies, is it?


  • #9111
    Exeggcute
    Closed Accounts Posts: 402 ✭✭Exeggcute


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I think it's telling how much trumps team and his fans seem wager to forget that whole act of treason thing he did last week, when he asked the Russians to hack the US government on his behalf.

    Except he didn't.


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  • #9112
    LostinKildare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭LostinKildare


    It's getting wild now.

    Longtime Trump friend and advisor Roger Stone is now smearing Khizr Khan, the bereaved parent who spoke at the DNC, as a "Muslim Brotherhood agent helping Hillary", and promoting a conspiracy theory that the Khans' son, hero soldier Humayan Khan, was a double agent working for Al Qaeda.
    https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/759941783098761216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Story here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/01/roger_stone_says_khizr_khan_is_a_muslim_brotherhood_saboteur.html


    Stone is one of the nastiest pieces of work in US politics. Many of the ugliest conspiracies and much of the most offensive racist and misogynistic rhetoric in political discourse have sprung from his deranged mind. For a mind-numbing round-up of his past deeds, see here:
    http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/05/09/comprehensive-guide-trump-ally-roger-stone-racist-sexist-conspiracy-theorist/210303


  • #9113
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Exeggcute wrote: »
    Except he didn't.
    "Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference here in an apparent reference to Mrs. Clinton’s deleted emails. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

    Nah, guess we all just imagined he said that then.


  • #9114
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Exeggcute wrote: »
    Except he didn't.

    Exactly!

    If anyone would actually take to time to listen to what Trump said and not the partisan media, he wasn’t calling for Russia to hack anything. It was a sarcastic comment that was evident to anyone, not blinded by Trump/Republican hated, with the ending line “I think you will be rewarded mightily by the press," which was an obvious dig at the media's lovefest with Hillary.

    All you read from our media is the part of his speech where he says “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.” But what the media ignores is the context, and the previous comment referring to the emails that he thinks have already been hacked and stored away in some Russian server farm. Here’s the line the media doesn’t seem to remember: “By the way, they hacked — they probably have her 33,000 e-mails. I hope they do. They probably have her 33,000 e-mails that she lost and deleted because you’d see some beauties there. So let’s see.”

    Here’s a bigger question the media ignores... The Democrats now are accusing Trump of treason for his comment. But might it just have been a trap set by Trump for the Democrats? Weren’t those 30,000 deleted emails all of a personal nature and about Chelsa’s wedding and Yoga? How could his comments ever be considered a national security threat, if they were all personal in nature? Or were there actually national security concerns, and pay-to-play issues with the Clinton Foundation while Hillary was SoS? Of course, our lovely biased media ignores this.

    It is also being reported now that the NSA already has all of Hillary’s deleted emails from when their surveillance program was in place, and the FBI could get them if they wanted. Why did the FBI not seek them as part of their investigation? Hillary being too big to jail is the only reason I can come up with.


  • #9115
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    LostinKildare wrote: »
    It's getting wild now.

    Longtime Trump friend and advisor Roger Stone is now smearing Khizr Khan, the bereaved parent who spoke at the DNC, as a "Muslim Brotherhood agent helping Hillary", and promoting a conspiracy theory that the Khans' son, hero soldier Humayan Khan, was a double agent working for Al Qaeda.
    https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/759941783098761216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Story here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/01/roger_stone_says_khizr_khan_is_a_muslim_brotherhood_saboteur.html


    Stone is one of the nastiest pieces of work in US politics. Many of the ugliest conspiracies and much of the most offensive racist and misogynistic rhetoric in political discourse have sprung from his deranged mind. For a mind-numbing round-up of his past deeds, see here:
    http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/05/09/comprehensive-guide-trump-ally-roger-stone-racist-sexist-conspiracy-theorist/210303

    I'm not remotely surprised, their base grew out of racist, bigoted conspiracy theorists to begin with back a year ago, so why should any of us be surprised?

    The mask has been put on since the primaries were wound up... but it just keeps on slipping, doesn't it?


  • #9116
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    LostinKildare wrote: »
    It's getting wild now.

    Longtime Trump friend and advisor Roger Stone is now smearing Khizr Khan, the bereaved parent who spoke at the DNC, as a "Muslim Brotherhood agent helping Hillary", and promoting a conspiracy theory that the Khans' son, hero soldier Humayan Khan, was a double agent working for Al Qaeda.
    https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/759941783098761216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Story here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/01/roger_stone_says_khizr_khan_is_a_muslim_brotherhood_saboteur.html


    Stone is one of the nastiest pieces of work in US politics. Many of the ugliest conspiracies and much of the most offensive racist and misogynistic rhetoric in political discourse have sprung from his deranged mind. For a mind-numbing round-up of his past deeds, see here:
    http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/05/09/comprehensive-guide-trump-ally-roger-stone-racist-sexist-conspiracy-theorist/210303

    Didn’t the Trump campaign fire Roger Stone over a year ago because Stone wanted to use the campaign for his own personal publicity?

    An interesting read from The Hill which shows how the Clinton campaign tricked Kahn into smearing Trump.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/289932-khizer-khan-was-tricked-into-smearing-donald-trump

    So if the truth were told, Kahn should not have any issue with Trump, but rather with Hillary Clinton for voting to invade Iraq. Then years later supporting a complete troop withdrawal from Iraq, which resulted in the creation of ISIS, making a mockery of what their son died for?


  • #9117
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Clinton's convention bump appears to have been bigger than Trump's; latest polls show a 7 point lead. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-bounce-appears-bigger-than-trumps/

    Probably mainly down to simply having the better all around convention, but you have to wonder how much Trump's calls for treason play into it also. It certainly wouldn't have anything to do with his upcoming multiple trials for fraud against thousands of everyday, working-to-middle-class American consumers, or the charges being brought against him for violently raping and threatening to murder a 13 year old child, given that they have rarely been mentioned by a media that has been in Trump's pocket from the outset.


  • #9118
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    What I have difficulty to understand with is the jibes made at Trump by the public auditorium. Trump is accused of being a sectarian, racist towards Mexicans and corrupt yet it was Clinton who gave her name to actions that killed far move Muslims than Trump ever did. It was also the previous Clinton administration that traded with Mexico yet only the most wealthy Mexicans have benefited from NAFTA. Mexico's corruption is phenomenally high.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Mexico


  • #9119
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    What I have difficulty to understand with is the jibes made at Trump by the public auditorium. Trump is accused of being a sectarian, racist towards Mexicans and corrupt yet it was Clinton who gave her name to actions that killed far move Muslims than Trump ever did. It was also the previous Clinton administration that traded with Mexico yet only the most wealthy Mexicans have benefited from NAFTA. Mexico's corruption is phenomenally high.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Mexico


    I’m guessing it doesn’t jibe for most people because our mainstream media is in a state of See-No-Evil Denial when it comes to the Clintons.


  • #9120
    eire4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭eire4


    Amerika wrote: »
    I’m guessing it doesn’t jibe for most people because our mainstream media is in a state of See-No-Evil Denial when it comes to the Clintons.



    In MHO the only thing the MSM in the US is interested in is making money. The truth is a sideshow which only comes into play if it makes them money.


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  • #9121
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    eire4 wrote: »
    In MHO the only thing the MSM in the US is interested in is making money. The truth is a sideshow which only comes into play if it makes them money.

    That would make sense but it doesn’t jibe with the facts. Benghazi, the email scandal, pay-to-play accusations regarding the Clinton Foundation while she was Secretary of State, and other scandals are made-for-big-profit stories. With Hillary’s unfavorability ratings and even polling numbers with Trump, investigative stories about Clinton’s wrongdoing would bring in big money. But the media mostly ignores them in lieu of bashing Trump at every step, and apparently refuses to even commit resources into them, other than an occasional pooh-poohing of any stories that could hurt the Clintons in a major way. So political ideology continues to trump profits for the majority of the media. But it does comes at a price in viewers mistrust of the media being able to report in a fair and unbiased manner, and in the continued downfall of the media.


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