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Soft sentences for the Bankers

13567…10

Comments

  • #62
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    endacl wrote: »
    It was pointed out that none had benefitted personally from the fraud.

    Of course those bankers benefited personally from their fraud, as they got salary, pension and bonuses from running a bank in a fraudulent manner. Many bankers done things in the boom in a fraudulent manner, and they wrecked the economy and some peoples lives. In the States they would have got life. Hopefully more bankers will be exposed here. What we have seen is the tip of the iceberg. Otherwise it may happen again some day.


  • #63
    Old Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 299 ✭✭Old Bill


    We can only hope that these banksters bump into love/hate's noely when there in prison :pac:


  • #64
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Going by what the judge said about one of those he sentenced a few in the regulators office could do with having their collar felt.


  • #65
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Some here are really disappointed with the sentencing of a few years.

    They were denied the joy of greater rage and chest thumping if the trio had not received a custodial sentence.

    Hard to blame them considering a lot of people paid the ultimate price due to what the bankers did.


  • #66
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    The three bankers found guilty of conspiracy to defraud to the tune of €7.2 billion were sentenced today. Two of them worked for Anglo and the other Denis Casey was CEO of Irish Life.

    Judge Martin Nolan described their actions as "dishonest, deceitful and corrupt". They conspired to defraud tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of investors into believing that Anglos balance sheet was €7.2bn better than it actually was as part of the "Green Jersey agenda".

    Yet they are given sentences that range from 2 years to 3.5 years. With 25% off for good behaviour theyll be out in no time.

    It is of note too that Judge Martin Nolan was the exact same judge who gave the Garlic Man a 6 year sentence for a €1.6m fraud. In that case the defendant had pleaded guilty and repaid the entire €1.6m he owed to Revenue before his trial even began. He repaid the cost of his crime yet still got six years.

    In this case the damage done can never be repaid. The Bankers plead innocent and put the State through a very expensive 89 day trial and at the end of it all they get off lightly with sentences of between 2 and 3.5 years. They are likely to appeal to get these sentences reduced further and will have 25% off too for good behaviour.

    Sure its a great country to commit multi-billion euro conspiracy to defraud and plead innocence. Even if you get caught and then are found guilty at trial the penalty will be negligible. The clear message to other bankers now is that multi-billion fraud is a crime worth committing because the pay-offs far outweigh the drawbacks.

    My first thoughts before hearing was they would get 20 or 50 years. How naïve I was, now I realize it is not the same as homicide or rape. That being said their crimes are so numerous, disgracing the reputation of the bank they worked for, ripping off the Irish Taxpayer, destroying the value of the shareholders.


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  • #67
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    Appropriate sentencing. It's a common problem (bankers aside) but 2 years each for this is ridiculous.

    What would you consider an appropriate sentence?


  • #68
    Old Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 299 ✭✭Old Bill


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    My first thoughts before hearing was they would get 20 or 50 years. How naïve I was, now I realize it is not the same as homicide or rape. That being said their crimes are so numerous, disgracing the reputation of the bank they worked for, ripping off the Irish Taxpayer, destroying the value of the shareholders.

    lol this is Ireland were you only get 12 years for murder.


  • #69
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Old Bill wrote: »
    lol this is Ireland were you only get 12 years for murder.

    Well, that's just a load of boll0cks.

    Murder has a mandatory sentence of 25 years. The average sentence served for murder is now 20 years.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/average-life-sentence-up-to-two-decades-from-7-years-in-1980s-1.2181655


  • #70
    Old Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 299 ✭✭Old Bill


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Well, that's just a load of boll0cks.

    Murder has a mandatory sentence of 25 years. The average sentence served for murder is now 20 years.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/average-life-sentence-up-to-two-decades-from-7-years-in-1980s-1.2181655


    There has been loads of murderers who got out in less than 15 years.


  • #71
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Old Bill wrote: »
    There has been loads of murderers who got out in less than 15 years.
    Those bankers caused a credit boom, which caused a banking crises / downturn in which many people - hard working decent people - lost their livihoods and some their lives. 15 years would have been too little for those bankers. Those bankers are still well off. Some people were left in negative equity for the rest of their lives.


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  • #72
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Allinall


    maryishere wrote: »
    T Those bankers are still well off. Some people were left in negative equity for the rest of their lives.

    A lot of whine fassified their mortgage applications.

    Just saying.


  • #73
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Allinall wrote: »
    A lot of whine fassified their mortgage applications.

    Just saying.

    Some bankers falsified mortgage applications, and in some cases lent 10 and 20 times annual salary. The bankers knew the mortgages could never be repaid but sold a totally unsuitable financial product to sometimes financially-ignorant people, who were gullible enough to trust their financial experts, the bankers. Just sayin'. The bankers got bonuses, their victims got a lifetime of negative equity.


  • #74
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Allinall


    maryishere wrote: »
    Some bankers falsified mortgage applications, and in some cases lent 10 and 20 times annual salary. The bankers knew the mortgages could never be repaid but sold a totally unsuitable financial product to sometimes financially-ignorant people, who were gullible enough to trust their financial experts, the bankers. Just sayin'. The bankers got bonuses, their victims got a lifetime of negative equity.

    Their "victims" also got houses.


  • #75
    bigroad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭bigroad


    REGULATOR FREE>disgrace.


  • #76
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    maryishere wrote: »
    Some bankers falsified mortgage applications, and in some cases lent 10 and 20 times annual salary. The bankers knew the mortgages could never be repaid but sold a totally unsuitable financial product to sometimes financially-ignorant people, who were gullible enough to trust their financial experts, the bankers. Just sayin'. The bankers got bonuses, their victims got a lifetime of negative equity.

    It takes two to tango and the biggest victims were the shareholders they watched the value of the assets wiped out before their eyes. The borrowers can walk away from the deal whereas the small investor in the company loses out now with regard Anglo Irish Bank we are dealing not with the average person were talking about for the most part an exclusive club and here was all the controversy over do will allow the state to control the breakup of the company or let the market destroy the bank without the state recouping all that had been previously lost. Still a hot button issue today.


  • #77
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭pablo128


    maryishere wrote: »
    Some bankers falsified mortgage applications, and in some cases lent 10 and 20 times annual salary. The bankers knew the mortgages could never be repaid but sold a totally unsuitable financial product to sometimes financially-ignorant people, who were gullible enough to trust their financial experts, the bankers. Just sayin'. The bankers got bonuses, their victims got a lifetime of negative equity.

    I don't always agree with you but that is spot on. I'm actually sitting in my parents holiday house in Wexford which was mortgaged on the back of a dodgy P60. My dad hasn't worked in over 30 years (medical) and my mother was a part time cleaner at the time. Yet they were handed 100k. Madness.

    Just to mention the house will be fully paid for in less than 6 months time so they're not complaining.


  • #78
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    What would you consider an appropriate sentence?

    12 - 15 years would be an appropriate start.


  • #79
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    Allinall wrote: »
    Their "victims" also got houses.

    Untrue. We're all their victims.


  • #80
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    Untrue. We're all their victims.

    Don't speak for me.


  • #81
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    The Moldy Gowl wrote: »
    What kinda suits? Or all the suits?

    Maybe he means Pierre Cardin or Michael guineys suits :)


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  • #82
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Allinall wrote: »
    Their "victims" also got houses.

    Sometimes in parts of the country the houses are still nearly worthless compared to the money the banks lent, knowing it was not sustainable / could sometimes never be repaid.


  • #83
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    Allinall wrote: »
    Don't speak for me.

    Right - so you didn't contribute to the bailout via your taxes.

    Apologies if I missed the fact that you're living abroad or something.


  • #84
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Allinall


    maryishere wrote: »
    Sometimes in parts of the country the houses are still nearly worthless compared to the money the banks lent, knowing it was not sustainable / could sometimes never be repaid.

    You mean- worthless compared to what the "victims" paid?

    There's a lot of sometimes in your post.

    What about all the other times?


  • #85
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    Right - so you didn't contribute to the bailout via your taxes.

    Apologies if I missed the fact that you're living abroad or something.

    I'm living and paying taxes in Ireland.

    It doesn't make me a victim.


  • #86
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    Allinall wrote: »
    I'm living and paying taxes in Ireland.

    It doesn't make me a victim.

    If that's what you think then I'm not going to argue.

    The facts, however, show that because of these and their ilk. and their mates in government. we are paying off debt that isn't ours

    So I'm not sure how you believe that you're not one of their victims


  • #87
    Glenbhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭Glenbhoy


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    That's quite likely. Banking is a very specialised sector. Many auditors are straight out of university and wouldn't be familiar with the concepts, evidence and terminology.

    I was an auditor. On my first job, I would have accepted anything.

    Another flaw is that every bank was considered Blue Chip and rock solid. The partners' audit fees would be dependent on a clean audit and not rocking the boat.

    Familiarity is a dangerous thing.

    Arthur Anderson, the most prestigious audit practice, disappeared overnight because its Houston and Chicago offices missed the charades of Enron and Worldcom completely

    Has the carb report into this been published yet? I thought it had and that ey had been exonerated as the accounting treatment of these transactions was pretty much okay.


  • #88
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    If that's what you think then I'm not going to argue.

    The facts, howeve, show that because of these and their ilk. and their mates in government. we are paying off debt that isn't ours

    So I'm not sure how you believe that you're not one of their victims

    Well it is our debt since we contributed to building up that debt during the boom years.


  • #89
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Some amount of nonsense has been posted in this thread


  • #90
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

    What are you basing your knowledge of them walking into a job on?
    Experience.

    They might not walk into jobs directly related to what they were doing, but they will be well looked after.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Youre showing naivety now with that statement and it shows me you dont know what is actually happening on the ground if you dont think these men will go back to six figure salaries. Sean Fitzpatrick is already earning a six figure salary while he awaits his trial, he is doing consultancy work right across Dublin. In fact word on the street is that Jonny Ronan gave him an office rent free till he got back on this feet. Same situation with David Drumm when he was fighting extradition in New York, according to his bankruptcy statements he was earning a fair wedge by consulting for bankers in Manhattan. He had already made hundreds of millions for them when he was Head of Anglos New York office so bankers there couldnt give two hoots if he brought the irish economy to its knees by fraudulent activity , they only thing they care about is making money and he made tons for them over the years.

    You seem to think that these bankers will be shunned in the banking community. The evidence on the ground says the complete opposite, in fact when Fitzpatrick walked into the Law Library bar after his arrest he got a standing ovation from the barristers, my own cousin and sister both witnessed this and Phoenix reported on it too. He is still welcome at Greystones golf club and plays regulary at Druids Glen too and no-one down there has shunned him either, quite the opposite- he is a hero in those circles. The only group Im aware of that has castigated him is a few old biddies in Greystones who he used to play bridge with- they chucked him out of the club. Apart from that its business as usual.

    I can guarantee you when these three get out of jail they will have no problems finding a six figure salary whatsoever, its simply naive to think otherwise given the evidence that is already there.


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  • #91
    terryduff12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭terryduff12


    Lucky they didn't bad mouth any Sergeants on the internet of they might have gotten 5 years like this guy http://www.thejournal.ie/man-sentenced-jail-harassing-garda-2898204-Jul2016/ crazy stuff better not say anything to the Garda now or they might bring ya to court.


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