Hostage situation in French church

unseenfootage · 26-07-2016 08:32PM

What is this Imam's name?

foggy_lad · 26-07-2016 08:35PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

What is this Imam's name?

Imam Hussein Halawa

26-07-2016 08:35PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Possible. But saudi funded ideology is conservative but not about violence against the west and the arab governments. They go out of their way to preach against that especially after 911. The threat comes from the radical imams that have no ties to any state funded mosques.

Who are you claiming goes out of their way to preach against it? You cannot possibly claim to know what is preached inside even a minority of Saudi-funded mosques and Islamic centres.

As Bob24 said, Wahhabism is sufficiently extremist as to 'prime' recruits for further radicalisation, whether inside or outside the mosque. It is undoubtedly a concern if the Saudi-sponsored version of Islam is being actively preached in this country.

The man whom the US Embassy said controls Islam in Ireland is a man who believes homosexuality should be punished with lashing, and that rape victims need to be absolved from guilt.

It amazes me that people get irate about dead Irish bishops, who showed horrible lack of compassion in how they dealt with child sex-abuse scandals, and yet we are silent about ongoing hate speech being possibly advanced in our society by a man who thinks rape victims have some sort of guilt attaching to them.

JPCN1 · 26-07-2016 08:36PM

Allowing the building of a super mosque in Clongriffen will be an absolute disaster.

Moo Moo Land · 26-07-2016 08:36PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Imam Hussein Halawa

Never heard of him. Does he appear in public much? Given he doesn't give interviews in English, what does this make him? A terrorist?
Are there any more muslim leaders in Ireland who don't speak English?

whatdoicare · 26-07-2016 08:38PM

What I can't get my head around and this might have an obvious answer that I'm not seeing but how come, if it's just a tiny minority in the Muslim community and the "regular, west loving" muslim is all about shaking the finger at them and telling the radicalised that no, no we don't back you up here, we like the West, we like the Europeans, stop killing them, you're ****ing it up for the rest of us...How come they aren't working with us and reporting those in their community who have gone a bit gaga?

I mean, that time those mad radicalised fellas shot up a supermarket, killed a cop and made a run for it, the Muslim community helped hide them, didn't they? Or how come mammy isn't reporting seeing weird videos on her son's phone where he's videoing his pals sexually assaulting a load of girls at a festival? Or young Ahmed isn't telling anyone that his pal in school is trying to recruit him to blow up a nightclub in the name of Allah?

Why are these young men getting to that point where they're able to hide weapons in their home, watch radical Immams online and become far more religious than their own parents without anyone in their family or circle of friends noticing??

How come those in the community where they live and pray everyday with these nut jobs just aren't coming forward and putting a stop to all this? This whole Isis sh!teology would be gone in a day if those in their communities stood up and took a stand.

Which leads me to believe that those in the muslim community actually support them and just aren't admitting it.

Those lads who did this in the church didn't just wake up and decide to do this, this church was on a list from a radical Imam and someone in their family or friends knew they were going to do this and sat back and said nothing.

unseenfootage · 26-07-2016 08:41PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Imam Hussein Halawa

You're correct.
Saw some Youtube clips just now.
Quite frankly it is ridiculous.
Don't know how his congregation puts up with it.
To be fair tho. There are none Muslims who also don't bother to learn the local language.
Not really a big deal.

I would've thought you'd be okay with it. Imagine all the terrorists he could create if he spoke English to the local youth.

KingBrian2 · 26-07-2016 08:41PM

JPCN1 wrote: »

Allowing the building of a super mosque in Clongriffen will be an absolute disaster.

We already have a Muslim population that needs a Mosque for their community to thrive in, what we don't need is to ostracize an entire community for the actions of a few. Scant details of a flourishing Jihad movement instead we have radical preachers who are trying to recruit from anyone who is disillusioned with society. Ireland is very tolerant towards Muslims and all religions Jews, Hindu's Sikhs or whatever. Part of living in a free country.

A Primal Nut · 26-07-2016 08:43PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Yep. My friends in Hungary are sick and tired of it and I totally understand why their country called a halt to mass immigration. They have a good grasp of history there too.

Viktor Orban should win Time Man Of The Year this time. Only man willing to put his own people first which is what every leader is supposed to do.

26-07-2016 08:45PM

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

I know people in Ireland who have never talked to anyone in Irish.
Our cultural native language!

You shouldn't be so dismissive of a genuine concern.

A person who doesn't think dialogue is important between communities, is in no position to call themselves a liberal.

If you cannot, or will not speak the language of the community, you are closing yourself to dialogue with the rest of society, and are probably less likely to appreciate their outlook, traditions, and how they perceive the world. In short, you cannot understand one another.

It is vital that the Islamic leaderships across Europe engage with their communities, and although in fairness that's a two-way street, that conversation is going to have to happen here in English, not in Arabic.

unseenfootage · 26-07-2016 08:45PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The man whom the US Embassy said controls Islam in Ireland is a man who believes homosexuality should be punished with lashing, and that rape victims need to be absolved from guilt.

Even more extreme views than this is openly preached in America by Christians.
I'm not sure if that leads to terrorism.

unseenfootage · 26-07-2016 08:47PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You shouldn't be so dismissive of a genuine concern.

A person who doesn't think dialogue is important between communities, is in no position to call themselves a liberal.

If you cannot, or will not speak the language of the community, you are closing yourself to dialogue with the rest of society, and are probably less likely to appreciate their outlook, traditions, and how they perceive the world. In short, you cannot understand one another.

It is vital that the Islamic leaderships across Europe engage with their communities, and although in fairness that's a two-way street, that conversation is going to have to happen in English, not in Arabic.

Why not in Gaelic?

Lirange · 26-07-2016 08:50PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ah now, people were certainly taking Brexit seriously prior to the result.

As it happens, the polls were wrong about Brexit, but that doesn't turn Probability Theory on its head. The French opinion polls show a strong sentiment in favour of Alain Juppé, and against Sarkozy and Le Pen.

This corresponds to most people's experiences of French politics. Juppé is a very popular politician, as well as being unambiguously right wing. This is a very rare thing in French politics, especially for a former PM; the last man to fit that bill was Jacques Chirac.

If Juppe gets the nomination, he will be the next French President. Mark my words. Feel free to requote this post in 2017 and force me to eat my hat if I am wrong. Juppé to win, Le Pen to end her career in disappointment, just like her father.

In the long run I think it will be her young niece Marion Marechal Le Pen that's makes the biggest family mark on French politics not Marine.

A Primal Nut · 26-07-2016 08:51PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Why not in Gaelic?

Because nobody speaks it anymore apart from a small few in the rest. Its irrelevant and nobody in their right mind would expect immigrants to learn it.

Moo Moo Land · 26-07-2016 08:51PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

What I can't get my head around and this might have an obvious answer that I'm not seeing but how come, if it's just a tiny minority in the Muslim community and the "regular, west loving" muslim is all about shaking the finger at them and telling the radicalised that no, no we don't back you up here, we like the West, we like the Europeans, stop killing them, you're ****ing it up for the rest of us...How come they aren't working with us and reporting those in their community who have gone a bit gaga?

I mean, that time those mad radicalised fellas shot up a supermarket, killed a cop and made a run for it, the Muslim community helped hide them, didn't they? Or how come mammy isn't reporting seeing weird videos on her son's phone where he's videoing his pals sexually assaulting a load of girls at a festival? Or young Ahmed isn't telling anyone that his pal in school is trying to recruit him to blow up a nightclub in the name of Allah?

Why are these young men getting to that point where they're able to hide weapons in their home, watch radical Immams online and become far more religious than their own parents without anyone in their family or circle of friends noticing??

How come those in the community where they live and pray everyday with these nut jobs just aren't coming forward and putting a stop to all this? This whole Isis sh!teology would be gone in a day if those in their communities stood up and took a stand.

Which leads me to believe that those in the muslim community actually support them and just aren't admitting it.

Those lads who did this in the church didn't just wake up and decide to do this, this church was on a list from a radical Imam and someone in their family or friends knew they were going to do this and sat back and said nothing.

Very good question and I don't know the answer but take for example the Roman Catholic organisation in Ireland since the foundation of the state. There was very very very little internal agitation within the organisation throughout decades of child abuse. Why? The priests and bishops knew there was widespread abuse and abusers were "moved on" or even exported but rarely reported. You hear the "just a few bad eggs" excuse all the time but the good priests must have been too scared of the consequences to shout stop. The bishops, cardinals and popes were worst of all in "policing" the cover up. In any organisation or community, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Brady knew Smyth was abusing in 1975; he pushed an oath of secrecy on the abused kids and went on about his business eventually becoming leader of the Catholics in Ireland. Smyth managed to abuse 100+ more children from 1975 to 1994 , Brady got to retire gracefully.

KingBrian2 · 26-07-2016 08:52PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Why not in Gaelic?

They could do it in Latin the language is unimportant the message on the other hand should be one of healing communities. Religion divides people language is and always will be a unifier.

26-07-2016 08:53PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Even more extreme views than this is openly preached in America by Christians.

But we're not in America for goodness' sake, we're in Europe, and Christian scholarship is not being used as a platform for terrorism on this continent.

Would you please cut-out such ridiculous comparisons? Are you people capable of admitting that Wahhabi scholarship is a problem in and of itself? And that Yusuf al-Qaradawi's apparent role in Irish Islam is a concern, given his opinions?

Forget the Westboro Baptist Church. It's irrelevant to this discussion.

unseenfootage wrote: »

Why not in Gaelic?

Are you just trolling? The vast majority of people on this island speak English as their primary language, it is the language that most people are capable of using to express complex outlooks and nuanced opinions.

A Primal Nut · 26-07-2016 08:53PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Even more extreme views than this is openly preached in America by Christians.
I'm not sure if that leads to terrorism.

Difference between a few extremists like the WBC who are hated by other Christians and the leader of a religion in this country. Baffling that you can't see that. People will defend this religion no matter what they do, its a sight to behold.

BorneTobyWilde · 26-07-2016 08:55PM

ISIS in Syria or Iraq had no direct input or instructions for this attack, yet French president will look to bomb some more innocent people in some random attack in Syria. At least one person was known to French police yet they did nothing because the lives of innocent French people come second to the rights of terrorists.

foggy_lad · 26-07-2016 08:55PM

JPCN1 wrote: »

Allowing the building of a super mosque in Clongriffen will be an absolute disaster.

The Mosque in Blanchardstown which afaik operates out of a business park unit was offered money from Saudi to build their own mosque but the Imam there turned it down because the Mosque would then have to follow the ideology of those who paid for it and that would be like another Clonskeach with no integration or twitter and facebook posts.

This Imam is a lot more forward thinking and does what he can to make his religion and Mosque as inclusive and as much a part of the community they live in as he possibly can. He recently issued an open invitation to members of the LGBT community to a meal in the mosque to mark the end of Ramadan. For a Muslim Imam you can't get much more openly and honestly integrated than that.

The Clonskeagh Mosque has been linked to terrorist organisations such as the Muslin Brotherhood as have the Halawa Family.

While there are people like Imam Halawa and his sidekick and interpreter Ali Selim teaching their messages of segregation and fundamental islam teachings in Europe we will always have these attacks whether they kill hundreds or only a few at a time!

A Primal Nut · 26-07-2016 08:56PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

ISIS in Syria or Iraq had no direct input or instructions for this attack, yet French president will look to bomb some more innocent people in some random attack in Syria.

They are targeting ISIS, not civilians.

unseenfootage · 26-07-2016 08:57PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Difference between a few extremists like the WBC who are hated by other Christians and the leader of a religion in this country. Baffling that you can't see that. People will defend this religion no matter what they do, its a sight to behold.

Didn't have them in mind.
Was talking about baptist ministers.
Not defending anything.
My point is that having conservative religious views does not necessarily lead to terrorism.

BorneTobyWilde · 26-07-2016 09:00PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

They are targeting ISIS, not civilians.

Problem is in France. They need to bomb their targets in France. This guy should have been took out. He was known to them, why not bomb his house?

unseenfootage · 26-07-2016 09:00PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

They are targeting ISIS, not civilians.

French are not as disciplined as America, who have killed hundreds of civilians by the way.
French troops were recently exposed for raping young Muslim girls in CAR and forcing dogs to have sex with them.

A Primal Nut · 26-07-2016 09:00PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Didn't have them in mind.
Was talking about baptist ministers.
Not defending anything.
My point is that having conservative religious views does not necessarily lead to terrorism.

Of course it doesnt. The Baptist ministers may oppose gay marriage but they are not advocating violence towards LGBT people. Obviously the Imams who advocate violence are more likely to drive people to terrorism than the ministers who don't.

A Primal Nut · 26-07-2016 09:01PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Problem is in France. They need to bomb their targets in France. This guy should have been took out. He was known to them, why not bomb his house?

I agree they should have went after him. Idiot judge let him out.

KingBrian2 · 26-07-2016 09:02PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

French are not as disciplined as America, who have killed hundreds of civilians by the way.
French troops were recently exposed for raping young Muslim girls in CAR and forcing dogs to have sex with them.

You can't substantiate those remarks I dare say. Most professional armies don't allow that to happen.

Widdershins · 26-07-2016 09:02PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

The Mosque in Blanchardstown which afaik operates out of a business park unit was offered money from Saudi to build their own mosque but the Imam there turned it down because the Mosque would then have to follow the ideology of those who paid for it and that would be like another Clonskeach with no integration or twitter and facebook posts.

This Imam is a lot more forward thinking and does what he can to make his religion and Mosque as inclusive and as much a part of the community they live in as he possibly can. He recently issued an open invitation to members of the LGBT community to a meal in the mosque to mark the end of Ramadan. For a Muslim Imam you can't get much more openly and honestly integrated than that.

The Clonskeagh Mosque has been linked to terrorist organisations such as the Muslin Brotherhood as have the Halawa Family.

While there are people like Imam Halawa and his sidekick and interpreter Ali Selim teaching their messages of segregation and fundamental islam teachings in Europe we will always have these attacks whether they kill hundreds or only a few at a time!

I think it might have been the Blanchardstown Imam who said what is said by some irish Imams to the media is very different to what is said behind closed doors . I don't want to get anyone into trouble and I'm not at all sure what the Immam's name was . Anyone know the one I mean ?

unseenfootage · 26-07-2016 09:03PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

ISIS in Syria or Iraq had no direct input or instructions for this attack, yet French president will look to bomb some more innocent people in some random attack in Syria. At least one person was known to French police yet they did nothing because the lives of innocent French people come second to the rights of terrorists.

Some people might ask why Hollande doesn't get bombed for bringing this runaway jihadi back from Turkey.

The_Kew_Tour · 26-07-2016 09:03PM

Zero tolerance where the police are given total control to do what they like is the only way this will calm down. Otherwise it's going be regular basis.

And **** these UN and EU courts.

Hostage situation in French church

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