Admit to raping your underage nieces, and you can walk free from court

kupus · 26-07-2016 01:55PM

its getting to the stage people are going to do their own justice. Cos they cant get any from the courts of Ireland. Whats the point of paying a judge mad money only for them to turn repeat offenders on the street.

And one more thing....

what if the repeat offender kills another person? Who is to blame then? The judges? the lawyers? the killer?
Well if the killer wasnt in prison when he should have been, then can the victims family then sue the judge for making a bad judgement call.

If an electrician wires a house faulty and it kills someone he can be liable for the fault.... why cant judges or lawyers? Where is their health and safety?

PARlance · 26-07-2016 01:55PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I hope the DPP appeals it and that this Judge is struck-off.
Shocking decision when the offender's condition counts more than the victim's.

Maybe it's the system and not just one Judge.

"He pointed out to the court that the Court of Criminal Appeal had reduced a six-year prison term he imposed on former Moyasta NS school principal, Pat Barry (82), to two and a half years for the systematic abuse of pupils over a long period of time. The judge said he was mindful of this reduction in sentence when imposing sentence on the 77-year-old."

ScumLord · 26-07-2016 01:57PM

Your Face wrote: »

Serious question: why is this type of sentencing allowed to happen?

Probably because in the past the state/prison service would pretty much abuse inmates, even people who were in for petty crime. These type of things happen because laws had to be brought in to stop the supposed good guys from acting like animals on the behalf of the state.

We can see it in this thread, people want to carry out acts of physical violence and torture on this feeble old man who can't defend himself. Yes he's horrible, but I still can't comprehend how people can use the acts of horrible people as a justification for carrying out horrible acts themselves.

OldNotWIse · 26-07-2016 01:58PM

kupus wrote: »

its getting to the stage people are going to do their own justice. Cos they cant get any from the courts of Ireland. Whats the point of paying a judge mad money only for them to turn repeat offenders on the street.

And one more thing....

what if the repeat offender kills another person? Who is to blame then? The judges? the lawyers? the killer?
Well if the killer wasnt in prison when he should have been, then can the victims family then sue the judge for making a bad judgement call.

If an electrician wires a house faulty and it kills someone he can be liable for the fault.... why cant judges or lawyers? Where is their health and safety?

"Preventative justice" is not a feature of the legal system.

eviltwin · 26-07-2016 01:58PM

Angela Merkel wrote: »

How can judges live with themselves when they give these kind of sentences? Do they not have families? Or are the elite so removed from reality?

Their job is to interpret law and judge on that basis then onto the next thing. It takes a certain person to do that kind of work.

PARlance · 26-07-2016 01:59PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The justice system isn't really there to make the victim feel better. It's primarily there to punish the perpetrator and protect society from their crimes and rehabilitate them. All this is supposed to create a deterrent effect.

There isn't time to punish him or rehabilitate him. He is in ill health and has been found guilty is at low risk of being able or having opportunity to reoffend.

No sentence would have repaired the damage done to the victims. There needs to be a separate system to provide support to the victims. The justice system deals primarily with criminals, not victims.

To pick up on your point that all this is supposed to create a detterent effect, it fails that in this instance imo. In fact, it almost creates a "free pass" for a sick (in many senses) old man to do something similar.

26-07-2016 01:59PM

Jesus Christ.
Justice is great.

OldNotWIse · 26-07-2016 02:00PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Probably because in the past the state/prison service would pretty much abuse inmates, even people who were in for petty crime. These type of things happen because laws had to be brought in to stop the supposed good guys from acting like animals on the behalf of the state.

We can see it in this thread, people want to carry out acts of physical violence and torture on this feeble old man who can't defend himself. Yes he's horrible, but I still can't comprehend how people can use the acts of horrible people as a justification for carrying out horrible acts themselves.

There was an incident a number of years back in the UK where a mob attacked and seriously injured a man who had recently moved to the area because someone found out he was a paed....iatrician :rolleyes:

hairyslug · 26-07-2016 02:00PM

What message does this throw out to older children (old enough to read the news), that if they get sexually assualted by an elderly relative, nothing will really be done. By going to the gardai (we live in Ireland) the local area will know who you are but in the long run, the abuser gets off to live his life in solitude.
Yes, we need a justice system, but we also need one that will hand down a relevant punishment to the criminal and also deter others.

OldNotWIse · 26-07-2016 02:01PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Their job is to interpret law and judge on that basis then onto the next thing. It takes a certain person to do that kind of work.

Yes, an objective person.

26-07-2016 02:01PM

Is sexual assault a class crime?

Are the poor more likely to rape? Is a Judge living in a nice 4 bed likely to be less aware of it?

I'm missing the connection between sexual assault and money.

Pro Hoc Vice · 26-07-2016 02:01PM

pablo128 wrote: »

I just googled this animal. He has been convicted of sexually attacking kids for over 50 years now. The people in his community are more forgiving people than I am.

I thought he was not named in article I read or did I miss itZ

pablo128 · 26-07-2016 02:03PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

There was an incident a number of years back in the UK where a mob attacked and seriously injured a man who had recently moved to the area because someone found out he was a paed....iatrician :rolleyes:

And there was an incident here recently where a convicted paedo had a ladder in his back yard which overlooked a kids playground. And he was rightly run out of the place.

eviltwin · 26-07-2016 02:04PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yes, an objective person.

I'd call it a person lacking empathy and that's not a criticism btw, I don't think anyone who has a deep connection with the victims could cope in the legal profession long term.

26-07-2016 02:04PM

pablo128 wrote: »

I just googled this animal. He has been convicted of sexually attacking kids for over 50 years now. The people in his community are more forgiving people than I am.

Link?

Thanks.

Pro Hoc Vice · 26-07-2016 02:05PM

hairyslug wrote: »

What message does this throw out to older children (old enough to read the news), that if they get sexually assualted by an elderly relative, nothing will really be done. By going to the gardai (we live in Ireland) the local area will know who you are but in the long run, the abuser gets off to live his life in solitude.
Yes, we need a justice system, but we also need one that will hand down a relevant punishment to the criminal and also deter others.

I have actually sat through a number of such sentences. The interesting thing is the amount of victims of such crimes that tell the court that they do not want custodial sentence and the very fact of guilty plea or finding is all they wanted. Many victims who actually lived through the ordeal seem to have more compassion than many in society.

old_aussie · 26-07-2016 02:06PM

Tombi! wrote: »

Well, the man is near 80. Has a low chance of reoffending apparently and had a near heart attack recently.

So I don't really see why you'd lock him up to waste more money

And they say justice is blind. And people who take that attitude are no better themselves!

I bet you'd sing a different tune if it was one of your daughters.

I can just see you at the court saying, "ah, no it will be fine, just let him go"

The scumbag should be given the same sentence what any other person would be given
Let the scumbag have the same protection in jail that he showed to his nieces, NONE!

Tombi! · 26-07-2016 02:06PM

pablo128 wrote: »

Pat Barry from Clare. It's in the article a couple of paragraphs down.

Then you'd be aware that's a different man.

hairyslug · 26-07-2016 02:07PM

pablo128 wrote: »

Pat Barry from Clare. It's in the article a couple of paragraphs down.

Thats a teacher that the judge sentenced to 6 years, appeals court reduced it to 2.5, possibly the reason why the judge didnt try to hand down a stiffer sentence this time

Pro Hoc Vice · 26-07-2016 02:08PM

pablo128 wrote: »

Pat Barry from Clare. It's in the article a couple of paragraphs down.

You are misreading the Article,

"He pointed out to the court that the Court of Criminal Appeal had reduced a six-year prison term he imposed on former Moyasta NS school principal, Pat Barry (82), to two and a half years for the systematic abuse of pupils over a long period of time. The judge said he was mindful of this reduction in sentence when imposing sentence on the 77-year-old."

Pat Barry was in fact sentenced to 6 years by the same judge, reduced to 2 1/2 years on appeal. The current case the accused is not named.

FalconGirl · 26-07-2016 02:11PM

Tombi! wrote: »

Well, the man is near 80. Has a low chance of reoffending apparently and had a near heart attack recently.

So I don't really see why you'd lock him up to waste more money

What a load of bolloxology...

pablo128 · 26-07-2016 02:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Link?

Thanks.

Tombi! wrote: »

Then you'd be aware that's a different man.

hairyslug wrote: »

Thats a teacher that the judge sentenced to 6 years, appeals court reduced it to 2.5, possibly the reason why the judge didnt try to hand down a stiffer sentence this time

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

You are misreading the Article,

"He pointed out to the court that the Court of Criminal Appeal had reduced a six-year prison term he imposed on former Moyasta NS school principal, Pat Barry (82), to two and a half years for the systematic abuse of pupils over a long period of time. The judge said he was mindful of this reduction in sentence when imposing sentence on the 77-year-old."

Pat Barry was in fact sentenced to 6 years by the same judge, reduced to 2 1/2 years on appeal. The current case the accused is not named.

Many apologies so. I got it wrong, it appears I jumped the gun on this one. I have deleted the offending posts.

Other posts of mine will be edited to reflect my mistake.

Icemancometh · 26-07-2016 02:18PM

So any would be child abusers should wait until they're in the 70s to do some molesting?

Irish Guitarist · 26-07-2016 02:20PM

“At one stage, the uncle told gardaí that ‘they were the boldest nieces anyone could have’ and by that, I think he meant that they were someway promiscuous and that they put him in a very difficult position.”

You couldn't make it up. How does anyone who makes such a ridiculous statement get away with this shit?

And I don't get what this is about.

Judge Keys said also that the man is a major risk of future heart problems after previously suffering a near fatal heart attack.

The judge said that the man’s wife and daughter were in court to support the man.

Is the judge saying he doesn't have the heart to sentence him to prison because his wife and daughter (who he most likely abused too) are there listening to the sentence?

bear1 · 26-07-2016 02:21PM

Tombi! wrote: »

Well, the man is near 80. Has a low chance of reoffending apparently and had a near heart attack recently.

So I don't really see why you'd lock him up to waste more money

Don't have kids do you?

Irish Guitarist · 26-07-2016 02:29PM

Tombi! wrote: »

Well, the man is near 80. Has a low chance of reoffending apparently and had a near heart attack recently.

So I don't really see why you'd lock him up to waste more money

What? You think a 77 year old man couldn't overpower a six year old child?

Not that it matters anyway. What he has already done is bad enough that he deserves to be locked away for the rest of his miserable life. Fuck him and his heart. He didn't seem to be using it anyway.

Sapphire · 26-07-2016 02:48PM

Tombi! wrote: »

Well, the man is near 80. Has a low chance of reoffending apparently and had a near heart attack recently.

So I don't really see why you'd lock him up to waste more money

Unless he's paralysed from the neck down I'd still consider him capable of molesting or sexually assaulting children. He does not need a working penis for that. And I know people who had heart attacks and then had heart bypasses and have more energy in their 80's as a result of their surgeries. Still, there is always hope that he really is as ill as he let on to the court and that a good hard winter might finish him off.

So IMO he's still a dangerous paedophile, because as long as he is the type of person that thinks a six year old led him on, he is too dangerous a fcuker to be free in society, and I would happily take a hit on my taxes to 'waste money' on locking him up for decent sentence that gives his victims a sense of justice and hopefully some closure.

OldNotWIse · 26-07-2016 03:04PM

eviltwin wrote: »

I'd call it a person lacking empathy and that's not a criticism btw, I don't think anyone who has a deep connection with the victims could cope in the legal profession long term.

I don't understand your post. When you say "a deep connection with the victims" - do you mean all victims? What sort of person has a deep connection with all victims? And if it is just the victims in question, then how would that affect their long term ability to cope in the profession. As a sexual abuse survivor, I find it disingenuous to suggest that any experience of sexual abuse or affinity with those who have been subjected to it are somehow too "fragile" to be able to work in a role requiring objectivity and an understanding of the legal system and how it operates.

With respect, I find an assertion that one lacks empathy to be an absolute criticism regardless of a disclaimer statement saying that it's not.

OldNotWIse · 26-07-2016 03:05PM

old_aussie wrote: »

And they say justice is blind. And people who take that attitude are no better themselves!

I bet you'd sing a different tune if it was one of your daughters.

I can just see you at the court saying, "ah, no it will be fine, just let him go"

The scumbag should be given the same sentence what any other person would be given
Let the scumbag have the same protection in jail that he showed to his nieces, NONE!

Yes they must be rapists too, sure it's all the same now. String them up. Rabble rabble. Where did I leave that pitchfork....

Squiggle · 26-07-2016 03:11PM

Sapphire wrote: »

So IMO he's still a dangerous paedophile, because as long as he is the type of person that thinks a six year old led him on, he is too dangerous a fcuker to be free in society

+1 Letting a sex offender who believes a 6 year old is capable of promiscuity carry on his life in society is nuts. If it costs extra to keep him locked up because of his age so be it. What price do you put on the life of some other six year old that he destroys ? If this guy re offends it will be an abomination of our justice system, again

Admit to raping your underage nieces, and you can walk free from court

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