Up to 85 civilians killed by mistake

Timberrrrrrrr · 21-07-2016 09:09PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

I've read every book I could get my hands on about modern war. I have met war veterans and I know exactly what war is. It is utter horror. If as you say you fought in a war then you have my sympathy.

If you did fight what unit did you serve in? What rank did you hold?

There is no moral equivalence between ISIS, a brutal terrorist organisation who have killed thousands in the most hideous way imaginable and who have designs on creating a global Caliphate, and the free democratic civilized West which is fighting a military campaign to erradicate them.

None whatsoever.

I am under no illusions about the ghastly war that lies ahead in which thousands if not millions more will die before ISIS and Islamic movements like it which will crop up in the decades are wiped out.

We cannot co-exist with Islamic extremist fundamentalists. They all have to go.

:pac:

Timberrrrrrrr · 21-07-2016 09:11PM

Gatling wrote: »

On a serious note what war did you fight in

1st Gulf 91

rjpf1980 · 21-07-2016 09:16PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

1st Gulf 91

What army did you serve in? What unit? What rank did you hold?

unseenfootage · 21-07-2016 09:18PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

We cannot co-exist with Islamic extremist fundamentalists. They all have to go.

At what price to them and to ourselves?

We've killed millions of ordinary Muslim civilians that have not fought us, in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia.

Is that a price worth paying? There are now more extremist fundamentalist well trained die hard terrorists than before we invaded Iraq.

The price tag for us is getting heavy too. Non Muslims have been massacred in France, Belgium, Germany, Tunisia, Egypt, USA.

Are you prepared for this price tag?

Timberrrrrrrr · 21-07-2016 09:20PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

What army did you serve in? What unit? What rank did you hold?

British army tank driver challenger 1

21-07-2016 09:23PM

And people wonder why people are radicalised. Air strikes like this are the best news ISIS could wish for

steddyeddy · 21-07-2016 09:27PM

I think the late great Tony Benn was proved right when he said this:

"There is no moral difference between a Stealth bomber and a suicide bomber. They both kill innocent people for political reasons."

War, terrorism or whatever you call it ends the same way. The only difference in morality stems from the reason you go to do it.

Gatling · 21-07-2016 09:33PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

British army tank driver challenger 1

We've two tankers on board ,

rjpf1980 · 21-07-2016 09:35PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

At what price to them and to ourselves?

We cannot have thousands of our civilians killed year after year in ever deadly terrorist attacks. We cannot have Muslim extremists in the West taking inspiration or direct orders from IS.

We've killed millions of ordinary Muslim civilians that have not fought us, in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia.

Rubbish.
The overwhelming majority of civilians killed in conflicts in those countries were killed by Islamic extremists.

Is that a price worth paying? There are now more extremist fundamentalist well trained die hard terrorists than before we invaded Iraq.

The withdrawal from Iraq led to the rise of Islamic State. Once the pressure was off they were emboldened. The troops need to be sent back in to wipe them out.

The price tag for us is getting heavy too. Non Muslims have been massacred in France, Belgium, Germany, Tunisia, Egypt, USA.

Once the war against Islamic extremists began this was inevitable. They are out and out savages and they need to be wiped out. Every last one of them if possible.

Are you prepared for this price tag?

YES!

Are you suggesting we negotiate?

This is a fight to the bloody end.

Timberrrrrrrr · 21-07-2016 09:37PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

We cannot have thousands of our civilians killed year after year in ever deadly terrorist attacks. We cannot have Muslim extremists in the West taking inspiration or direct orders from IS.

Rubbish.
The overwhelming majority of civilians killed in conflicts in those countries were killed by Islamic extremists.

The withdrawal from Iraq led to the rise of Islamic State. Once the pressure was off they were emboldened. The troops need to be sent back in to wipe them out.

Once the war against Islamic extremists began this was inevitable. They are out and out savages and they need to be wiped out. Every last one of them if possible.

YES!

Are you suggesting we negotiate?

This is a fight to the bloody end.

Will you be joining up anytime soon?

Or is a printers ink as far as you will go in regards to getting your hands dirty?

unseenfootage · 21-07-2016 09:47PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

We cannot....
We cannot.....

Rubbish.

wipe them out.

they need to be wiped out.

This is a fight to the bloody end.

okayyyy

BalcombeSt4 · 21-07-2016 10:12PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

We cannot have thousands of our civilians killed year after year in ever deadly terrorist attacks. We cannot have Muslim extremists in the West taking inspiration or direct orders from IS.

Rubbish.
The overwhelming majority of civilians killed in conflicts in those countries were killed by Islamic extremists.

The withdrawal from Iraq led to the rise of Islamic State. Once the pressure was off they were emboldened. The troops need to be sent back in to wipe them out.

Once the war against Islamic extremists began this was inevitable. They are out and out savages and they need to be wiped out. Every last one of them if possible.

YES!

Are you suggesting we negotiate?

This is a fight to the bloody end.

Its time to put the Smirnoff away mate and head off to bed. Plenty of Fox News to watch in the morning.

Manic Moran · 22-07-2016 12:24AM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

1st Gulf 91

What army did you serve in? What unit? What rank did you hold?

I really don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.

I don't know about Timberrrr, but I have not seen the targeting data which was used to justify the strike. (Has this whole business been confirmed?) It is entirely possible that had one of us viewed the information, we'd have made the same call. Or maybe we would have considered it very thin and not done anything. We are lacking a little context. Realistically, I don't expect soon any public revelation of the whole story, even if the Us military does its own analysis. On the other hand, I never encountered any soldier who didn't care if they killed civilians or who engaged with reckless abandon. I'm sure some exist, but I've never seen such things condoned. Absent an indication of criminal culpability, I'll settle with an internal review to reduce the chances of such a thing happening again in the future.

darkpagandeath · 22-07-2016 01:10AM

Any Confirmation yet ?

Gatling · 22-07-2016 01:13AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I really don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.

I don't know about Timberrrr, but I have not seen the targeting data which was used to justify the strike. (Has this whole business been confirmed?)

No nothing confirmed or verified as of yet other than 56 people killed in a Strike which most have some how decided all innocent civilians including 10 + prisoners ,

Most blaming the US , Russian media saying it was a French airstrike ,what little seen in mainstream media suggests the same as some of the so called activist in other countries saying it was a coalition strike of some sort targeting Isis

Andrewf20 · 22-07-2016 01:33AM

For every civilian casualty killed by the USA, they are probably created 10 more people radicalized and hell bent on seeking revenge.

This is the kind of behavior that will continue to prolong the hatred of the USA and the "west" who support them.

darkpagandeath · 22-07-2016 01:51AM

Andrewf20 wrote: »

For every civilian casualty killed by the USA, they are probably created 10 more people radicalized and hell bent on seeking revenge.

This is the kind of behavior that will continue to prolong the hatred of the USA and the "west" who support them.

Oh I guess the Russians used special non Radicalizing bombs ? Odd France is targeted so much. And now Germany.

Gatling · 22-07-2016 01:54AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Oh I guess all the Russian used special non Radicalizing bombs ? Odd France is targeted so much. And now Germany.

Special dumb bombs in civilian areas along with cluster munitions ohhh but but but there hitting isis except there not .

Musketeer4 · 22-07-2016 09:38AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Oh I guess the Russians used special non Radicalizing bombs ? .......

Yeah they do actually. Unlike the Americans the Russians just use enormously high yield dumb bombs that just kill everyone so there's no-one left to radicalise.

They are using big bombs originally designed for use on heavy armour against people in built up areas. There couldn't be anything other than massive casualties.

And the reason they are using them is not out of devilment I'm thinking but its a matter of supply. Russia has giganitc stockpiles of conventional ordnance left over from the cold war that dwarfed the quantities held by the west.

They simply have more than they know what to do with so they drop them like sweets from a Pinata.

Renegade Mechanic · 22-07-2016 11:48AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

British army tank driver challenger 1

Highway?

Timberrrrrrrr · 22-07-2016 11:54AM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Highway?

Yup

But hey what would I know? Hard to argue with armchair experts like this.

rjpf1980 wrote: »

I've read every book I could get my hands on about modern war. I have met war veterans and I know exactly what war is. It is utter horror. If as you say you fought in a war then you have my sympathy.

I am under no illusions about the ghastly war that lies ahead in which thousands if not millions more will die before ISIS and Islamic movements like it which will crop up in the decades are wiped out.
.

Musketeer4 · 22-07-2016 11:58AM

No surprise then that you are jumping to the defence of the wanton murder machine of imperialism. I'm sure you were well indoctrinated to become a prized running dog during your time in the military.

22-07-2016 12:02PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yup

But hey what would I know? Hard to argue with armchair experts like this.

It's the internet. Anyone can claim to be a tank driver, but we're all sitting at keyboards now. It's the democracy of the keyboard, you don't get a special hearing because of who or what you claim to be. Some of my favourite posters on here never claim to be experts in their fields, but I assume many of them are because of the breadth and depth of their understanding of various issues. Or they're just very bright people. Either way, it's thought-provoking.

Whereas "do you know who I am" behaviour is just eye-rolling. Welcome to the internet.

Musketeer4 · 22-07-2016 12:05PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's the internet. Anyone can claim to be a tank driver, but we're all sitting at keyboards now. It's the democracy of the keyboard, you don't get a special hearing because of who or what you claim.

yes, it reminds me of that episode of Fawlty Towers where Basil says he killed four men in the Korean war. His wife Sybil then adds that he was in the catering corp and killed four through food poisoning.

As for our own Rambo here, I'd be interested to know the details of his unit and where he was stationed and maybe it would be interesting if we can cross check. It all sounds a little fanciful.

Gatling · 22-07-2016 12:06PM

Musketeer4 wrote: »

No surprise then that you are jumping to the defence of the wanton murder machine of imperialism.

Actually if you kept up you would know he's actually been calling for people to be held responsible and to prevent further accidents

Timberrrrrrrr · 22-07-2016 12:18PM

Musketeer4 wrote: »

No surprise then that you are jumping to the defence of the wanton murder machine of imperialism. I'm sure you were well indoctrinated to become a prized running dog during your time in the military.

Where have I done this?

Timberrrrrrrr · 22-07-2016 12:19PM

Musketeer4 wrote: »

yes, it reminds me of that episode of Fawlty Towers where Basil says he killed four men in the Korean war. His wife Sybil then adds that he was in the catering corp and killed four through food poisoning.

As for our own Rambo here, I'd be interested to know the details of his unit and where he was stationed and maybe it would be interesting if we can cross check. It all sounds a little fanciful.

No problem kiddo, I'll just throw up my name, rank, serial number for you to peruse, maybe my address and a picture of me so you can verify your checks would also be required? :rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr · 22-07-2016 12:22PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's the internet. Anyone can claim to be a tank driver, but we're all sitting at keyboards now. It's the democracy of the keyboard, you don't get a special hearing because of who or what you claim to be. Some of my favourite posters on here never claim to be experts in their fields, but I assume many of them are because of the breadth and depth of their understanding of various issues. Or they're just very bright people. Either way, it's thought-provoking.

Whereas "do you know who I am" behaviour is just eye-rolling. Welcome to the internet.

Never claimed to be an expert on anything, just pointing out that the ones shouting loudest for military are usually the ones who would never leave the comort of their own homes to partake in said action.

22-07-2016 12:23PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Never claimed to be an expert on anything, just pointing out that the ones shouting loudest for military are usually the ones who would never leave the comort of their own homes to partake in said action.

yeah yeah.

Timberrrrrrrr · 22-07-2016 12:25PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

yeah yeah.

What a well thought out intelligent response, your debating skills are second to none.

Up to 85 civilians killed by mistake

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