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Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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Comments

  • #962
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    I hope it wasnt for calling me an ugly fecker cos I took that comment in the humour that it was intended
    i took it as a joke too


  • #963
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,934 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    I hope it wasnt for calling me an ugly fecker cos I took that comment in the humour that it was intended

    Yes, but it's been sorted.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #964
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sean-mceniff-says-he-is-not-politician-linked-to-mary-boyle-case-1.2726024

    Mr Mc Eniff is satisfied the two former gardaí interviewed as part of the video have recently clarified that at the time of the disappearance or in the investigation that followed neither were aware of any such alleged phonecall and that there was no impediment from their superiors in the investigation as a result.”


    Mr McEniff is telling porkies there for a start


  • #965
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-34893362.html

    “Mr Mc Eniff is satisfied that the two former Gardai interviewed as part of the video have recently clarified that at the time of the disappearance or in the investigation that followed neither were aware of any such alleged phonecall and that there was no impediment from their superiors in the investigation as a result.”
    I read that as confirming there was a phone call, but the two guards were not aware of it at the time and so could not have caused any interference in their investigations.
    Interesting wording indeed!


  • #966
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,275 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    DonegalTech wrote: »
    We have two retired members of the Gardai who investigated the case originally, saying there was political interference in the form of a local politician asking that members of a certain family "Not be questioned". This comes from two officers directly involved in the case, and yes they were reluctant to mention this for years.

    Let be honest here, Speaking out against the Internal workings of the Gardai was not the done thing for any Garda, even a more recent case since 2010 involving a less serious penalty point cover up, which seen the whistleblower's integrity questioned in public by a Chief Commissioner.

    Both retired Gardai seem to agree on their being one major suspect, who they believed was the killer, and yet he was never arrested as a suspect. When this suspect was questioned as a witness, one of the retired detectives said he felt the suspect was close to confessing, until his superior officer nudged the detective, suggesting he ease off the questioning intensity and go get the suspect some water.

    Ireland can be like a padded room for people seeking justice, where you can scream at the top of your lungs, but the noise is muffled by the surrounding environmental factors.

    You would think that if a politician had such influence over the chief Garda in the station at that time it would have waned over the years as new Garda personnel came into the investigation though. It is hard to believe that this wasn't picked up on by new investigators who wouldn't give a damn about this politician.

    Things like this and the penalty points are part of the reason why I believe and am so against political appointments in the Garda. All important appointments like senior Garda, Judges etc should be taken away from politicians and be done by an independent board.


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  • #967
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    the RTE documentary ( on Corruption in South Donegal) from 1985 which i mentioned earlier in this thread said numerous times that McEniff had a very very close relationship with the late chief inspector Murray of Ballyshannon Gardai , the following Fridays Donegal democrat repeated these claims , and that rank and file gardai had complained that their investigations were being impeded by this relationship , if you recall i posted this Donegal Democrat article but i had crossed Mceniffs name out , well now he has involved himself in the case i think it should be fair enough that these prior allegations can be looked at


  • #968
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,275 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sean-mceniff-says-he-is-not-politician-linked-to-mary-boyle-case-1.2726024

    Mr Mc Eniff is satisfied the two former gardaí interviewed as part of the video have recently clarified that at the time of the disappearance or in the investigation that followed neither were aware of any such alleged phonecall and that there was no impediment from their superiors in the investigation as a result.”


    Mr McEniff is telling porkies there for a start

    Where did the information about the phonecall come from originally. This was before mobile phones and there was hardly a phone in the room when the suspect was being questioned. That would be irregular surely to prevent interference in the questioning? If there was who answered the call and would they have been told who was calling or even recognise the voice?


  • #969
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Donegal Democrat article from 1985 about an RTE documentary alleging political and Gardai corruption in South Donegal, Those familiar with the documentary will recognise some names

    CnqhBK6WEAAhXSH.jpg


  • #970
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Where did the information about the phonecall come from originally. This was before mobile phones and there was hardly a phone in the room when the suspect was being questioned. That would be irregular surely to prevent interference in the questioning? If there was who answered the call and would they have been told who was calling or even recognise the voice?

    the phonecall didnt come at a time when the suspect was being interviewed , hence why afterwards he was never arrested despite his own family members telling the gardai they believed it was him and the Gardai believing so themselves.

    The information about the phonecall comes from the 2 ex gardai themselves , but they seem to have differing views at times on how much it affected their investigations.


  • #971
    testicles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭testicles


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #972
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,275 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I read that as confirming there was a phone call, but the two guards were not aware of it at the time and so could not have caused any interference in their investigations.
    Interesting wording indeed!

    Something must have been said to them though.
    Didn't one of them say that he felt the man was about to confess?
    Then the senior Garda intervened and told him to desist.
    I can't understand how the two Garda who were questioning the suspect would not continue if there was no interference from the senior Garda.
    They should be clear on this.


  • #973
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    If there was a politican involved, lets hope people realise it takes a group of the same type in the Gardai and elsewhere to put the groups desires and wishes into action. This isn't down to just one man.


  • #974
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,275 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    If there was a politican involved, lets hope people realise it takes a group of the same type in the Gardai and elsewhere to put the groups desires and wishes into action. This isn't down to just one man.

    Hardly takes a group.
    One man in a senior position could turn the investigation on another track i'd say.


  • #975
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Hardly takes a group.
    One man in a senior position could turn the investigation on another track i'd say.

    No that's the mistake the public always make. In my experience it also takes a click more than willing to do the bidding for their own long term gains as well.


  • #976
    DonegalTech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 ✭DonegalTech


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I read that as confirming there was a phone call, but the two guards were not aware of it at the time and so could not have caused any interference in their investigations.
    Interesting wording indeed!

    Something must have been said to them though.
    Didn't one of them say that he felt the man was about to confess?
    Then the senior Garda intervened and told him to desist.
    I can't understand how the two Garda who were questioning the suspect would not continue if there was no interference from the senior Garda.
    They should be clear on this.

    No, only one of the two Gardai featured in the documentary referred to that incident of him interrogating the suspect in a Garda station, who was officially being questioned as a witness rather than a Suspect at that stage.

    It was himself and his superior ( A Senior Garda!!) who were questioning the individual as a witness, when he felt his line of questioning was pushing the suspect towards a possible confession. The suspect was sobbing and saying your trying to make me a suspect, when the Senior Garda in the room nudged the detective (Suggesting he should ease off) and then told him to get the suspect a drink. When he returned, the suspect was now more collected, and calm again.


  • #977
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,003 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    DonegalTech wrote: »
    It was himself and his superior ( A Senior Garda!!) who were questioning the individual as a witness, when he felt his line of questioning was pushing the suspect towards a possible confession. The suspect was sobbing and saying your trying to make me a suspect, when the Senior Garda in the room nudged the detective (Suggesting he should ease off) and then told him to get the suspect a drink. When he returned, the suspect was now more collected, and calm again.

    I wonder what the senior Garda said to the individual after he sent the other Garda out of the room....

    Not your ornery onager



  • #978
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    I follow with interest.

    I would just like to remind people that at any time in the future a defendant may claim that they were prejudiced by reports circulated in the media (including on social media) and thus cannot receive a fair trial. Alternatively people can claim defamation. Naturally such claims could be contested and would be deliberated on by a judge, and in this day and age juries are considered to be reasonably robust in terms of exposure to media commentary. But still, in the interests of Mary's case receiving justice (as I hope her case does, and asap) please be careful not to write or suggest anything prejudicial on this thread.
    This has been on my mind to write for a few days, so felt just to give my (lay person's) opinion. Any obstacle would not be fair to Mary's memory.


  • #979
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    DonegalTech wrote: »
    No, only one of the two Gardai featured in the documentary referred to that incident of him interrogating the suspect in a Garda station, who was officially being questioned as a witness rather than a Suspect at that stage.

    It was himself and his superior ( A Senior Garda!!) who were questioning the individual as a witness, when he felt his line of questioning was pushing the suspect towards a possible confession. The suspect was sobbing and saying your trying to make me a suspect, when the Senior Garda in the room nudged the detective (Suggesting he should ease off) and then told him to get the suspect a drink. When he returned, the suspect was now more collected, and calm again.

    Am I right in thinking that the other gaurd, Collins, was talking about himself dealing with someone else who almost gave him the name of the perpetrator, but there was some business he had to attend to at a different garda station and that was the last he saw of them/last bit of information he got from them?

    Please correct me if I picked that bit up wrongly.


  • #980
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    DonegalTech wrote: »
    No, only one of the two Gardai featured in the documentary referred to that incident of him interrogating the suspect in a Garda station, who was officially being questioned as a witness rather than a Suspect at that stage.

    It was himself and his superior ( A Senior Garda!!) who were questioning the individual as a witness, when he felt his line of questioning was pushing the suspect towards a possible confession. The suspect was sobbing and saying your trying to make me a suspect, when the Senior Garda in the room nudged the detective (Suggesting he should ease off) and then told him to get the suspect a drink. When he returned, the suspect was now more collected, and calm again.

    Playing devil's advocate here, but a nudge from a superior officer during an interview could also quite easily have been taken a sign of comraderie encouraging him to keep on at him.

    .


  • #981
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,003 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Playing devil's advocate here, but a nudge from a superior officer during an interview could also quite easily have been taken a sign of comraderie encouraging him to keep on at him.

    .
    There would be no need to do that.

    Not your ornery onager



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  • #982
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Playing devil's advocate here, but a nudge from a superior officer during an interview could also quite easily have been taken a sign of comraderie encouraging him to keep on at him.

    .

    It could also be that the guard was over-stepping somewhat considering her was interviewing a witness and not a 'suspect'.
    I think that the more likely explanation, TBH.


  • #983
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    jenny smith wrote:
    Thanks. i guess " I don't believe that" is a bit harsh but I am sure you know what I meant.There were some digital cameras in 1995


    Not harsh at all. I didn't elaborate previously because it seems bizarre. But the combination of the access to technology at the time, and in particular to photo quality printing, that these were simply background photos with no incriminating evidence, and that they only turned up in the media 10 years after just makes them more surreal.

    Above all, I knew the person who took the photos well and it was simply incomprehensible to me that bad in their background they could have pulled off an elaborate hoax. One of those photos made the front page of a tabloid paper so I'm obviously not the only one who felt there was something authentic about them.


  • #984
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,003 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    It could also be that the guard was over-stepping somewhat considering her was interviewing a witness and not a 'suspect'.
    I think that the more likely explanation, TBH.
    More likely than trying to stop the individual confessing?

    Not your ornery onager



  • #985
    DonegalTech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 ✭DonegalTech


    Going Forward wrote: »
    DonegalTech wrote: »
    No, only one of the two Gardai featured in the documentary referred to that incident of him interrogating the suspect in a Garda station, who was officially being questioned as a witness rather than a Suspect at that stage.

    It was himself and his superior ( A Senior Garda!!) who were questioning the individual as a witness, when he felt his line of questioning was pushing the suspect towards a possible confession. The suspect was sobbing and saying your trying to make me a suspect, when the Senior Garda in the room nudged the detective (Suggesting he should ease off) and then told him to get the suspect a drink. When he returned, the suspect was now more collected, and calm again.

    Playing devil's advocate here, but a nudge from a superior officer during an interview could also quite easily have been taken a sign of comraderie encouraging him to keep on at him.

    .

    No the detective explained that the nudge was as if to say ease up, and was then followed by the Senior Officer telling the detective to go get a drink for the suspect.

    The nudge was definitely not to encourage the detective to keep going.


  • #986
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    https://mobile.twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/755052433663926273?p=v

    O Doherty is still standing by her claim that Collins has identified the politician.

    But I think she's going to get a bit of goading about doing something about it.

    She doesn't seem to have done anything with it, but what's she supposed to do with it?

    Follow Margo's steps to Pearse St. Garda Station?


  • #987
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Esel wrote: »
    More likely than trying to stop the individual confessing?

    It is an alternative explanation, but not more likely in my interpretation, as I am finding it more and more difficult to believe all I have heard from the guards. Some of it is contradictory so all cannot be true. ;)


  • #988
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Gemma says Collins has identified the politician. She should state who Collins says it is


  • #989
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    jenny smith wrote: »
    Gemma says Collins has identified the politician. She should state who Collins says it is

    Gemma likes to tease these things out , i dont - Its Sean McEniff he believes it is


  • #990
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    I follow with interest.

    I would just like to remind people that at any time in the future a defendant may claim that they were prejudiced by reports circulated in the media (including on social media) and thus cannot receive a fair trial. Alternatively people can claim defamation. Naturally such claims could be contested and would be deliberated on by a judge, and in this day and age juries are considered to be reasonably robust in terms of exposure to media commentary. But still, in the interests of Mary's case receiving justice (as I hope her case does, and asap) please be careful not to write or suggest anything prejudicial on this thread.
    This has been on my mind to write for a few days, so felt just to give my (lay person's) opinion. Any obstacle would not be fair to Mary's memory.

    I agree with you , but now Sean McEniff has entered the fray himself ( via solicitors unlike Pat The Cope) then i think it is fair game to include him in the debate? maybe im wrong?


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  • #991
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    https://www.facebook.com/groups/MaryBoyle/280409168993466/?notif_t=group_activity&notif_id=1468810566506252

    A new facebook group set up by the same people behind the biggest Maddie McCann Group on facebook if anyone is interested, its private and only for serious discussion and debate and just finding its feet yet


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