Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

Going Forward

https://mobile.twitter.com/RachelC1966/status/754717898887852033?p=v

Aska

Is there any real faith in the law here re: this tragic event? what I mean is, people are asking that the main suspect be questioned which in an ideal situation would be great but if I was to read the paper tomorrow and see that the main suspect had be hauled in for questioning I actually would be sceptical, we'd all be praising the gardai and shouting 'go get 'em boys' while behind the walls they are probably having tea and biscuits and then release him without charge and everyone would be mind blown thinking it must be someone else.

A thought came to mind today, our leader is in the dail since 1975 I believe, if not 1976 but before this occurred, he has lived through all of this over the years and now he's been in a position of power for years but nothing happens from him and many many others too.

Unfortunately it's times like this that you daydream about being locked in a room with the suspect for an hour! (well I do, but I have time to kill as they say),


I was only born months before Mary disappeared so I didn't grow up knowing much about this poor girl, but I more into these types of cases when a local girl down here when missing (and still is, Fiona Sinnott), and Christ the dogs on the streets know who did away with Fiona but a wall of secrecy has continued to hide her killer.

But with those two girls and the many others that are missing I am afraid that until a bodies are found we may never get to the bottom of these horrendous crimes.

my 2c, sorry for rattling on and going off topic there for abit.

oranbhoy67

Aska wrote: »

Is there any real faith in the law here re: this tragic event? what I mean is, people are asking that the main suspect be questioned which in an ideal situation would be great but if I was to read the paper tomorrow and see that the main suspect had be hauled in for questioning I actually would be sceptical, we'd all be praising the gardai and shouting 'go get 'em boys' while behind the walls they are probably having tea and biscuits and then release him without charge and everyone would be mind blown thinking it must be someone else.

A thought came to mind today, our leader is in the dail since 1975 I believe, if not 1976 but before this occurred, he has lived through all of this over the years and now he's been in a position of power for years but nothing happens from him and many many others too.

Unfortunately it's times like this that you daydream about being locked in a room with the suspect for an hour! (well I do, but I have time to kill as they say),


I was only born months before Mary disappeared so I didn't grow up knowing much about this poor girl, but I more into these types of cases when a local girl down here when missing (and still is, Fiona Sinnott), and Christ the dogs on the streets know who did away with Fiona but a wall of secrecy has continued to hide her killer.

But with those two girls and the many others that are missing I am afraid that until a bodies are found we may never get to the bottom of these horrendous crimes.

my 2c, sorry for rattling on and going off topic there for abit.

I was interviewed by a freelancer at the march the other day and he asked me do i have faith in the "cold case team"?? I replied no, I'm Republican politically (not in any parties that's just my viewpoint) and it pains me to say this - but I'd rather have the PSNI down to look at the files or the UK police over.. I know that could never happen but i share the same fears as you, I'm surprised actually that they haven't done it already brought the man whom we suspect in and give him tea and biccys for a day or 2.

I think my quote will be published in today's Star and AFAIK they are running with Charlie Flanagan's Disgraceful tweet on the matter too

Johnboy1951

stuar wrote: »

Johnboy1951 do you have any feeling's or inclination's about this case,

Yes I do, but I am short of FACTS like most others.

why not question a suspect, or anybody hiding him, if that is the case, if not ask them simple questions like:

Indeed why not? I do not KNOW, and neither does anyone else posting here. We have feelings and suspicions and no more.

Johnboy1951

Going Forward wrote: »

There is no way the facts as they are should remain as they are.

I agree, but speculating about the reasons without much knowledge is hardly doing anyone a favour.
I wish we could see marches and publicity and all sorts of public pressure without the speculation being voiced.

jenny smith

Aska wrote: »

Is there any real faith in the law here re: this tragic event? what I mean is, people are asking that the main suspect be questioned which in an ideal situation would be great but if I was to read the paper tomorrow and see that the main suspect had be hauled in for questioning I actually would be sceptical, we'd all be praising the gardai and shouting 'go get 'em boys' while behind the walls they are probably having tea and biscuits and then release him without charge and everyone would be mind blown thinking it must be someone else.

A thought came to mind today, our leader is in the dail since 1975 I believe, if not 1976 but before this occurred, he has lived through all of this over the years and now he's been in a position of power for years but nothing happens from him and many many others too.

Unfortunately it's times like this that you daydream about being locked in a room with the suspect for an hour! (well I do, but I have time to kill as they say),


I was only born months before Mary disappeared so I didn't grow up knowing much about this poor girl, but I more into these types of cases when a local girl down here when missing (and still is, Fiona Sinnott), and Christ the dogs on the streets know who did away with Fiona but a wall of secrecy has continued to hide her killer.

But with those two girls and the many others that are missing I am afraid that until a bodies are found we may never get to the bottom of these horrendous crimes.

my 2c, sorry for rattling on and going off topic there for abit.

What the dogs in the street know is no good in court. Several people including the suspect were arrested and released without charge so obviously there was not enough evidence to charge him or the others for withholding info. If a person is prosecuted and walks there is no option to prosecute him again. A lot of admissions are due to interrogation techniques. If someone is brazen enough not to fall for them there is a good chance they will not be prosecuted. No point blaming gardai for that or if people have infor and won't tell

JohnCash0260

jenny smith wrote: »

What the dogs in the street know is no good in court. Several people including the suspect were arrested and released without charge so obviously there was not enough evidence to charge him or the others for withholding info. If a person is prosecuted and walks there is no option to prosecute him again. A lot of admissions are due to interrogation techniques. If someone is brazen enough not to fall for them there is a good chance they will not be prosecuted. No point blaming gardai for that or if people have infor and won't tell

What about withholding information?

jenny smith

JohnCash0260 wrote: »

What about withholding information?

what about it? In relation to fiona sinnot? I expect the gardai have to be able to prove in court that the person withheld information. All prosecutions are in a court of law and have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt so what the dogs in the street know is no good

Going Forward

jenny smith wrote: »

What the dogs in the street know is no good in court. Several people including the suspect were arrested and released without charge so obviously there was not enough evidence to charge him or the others for withholding info. If a person is prosecuted and walks there is no option to prosecute him again. A lot of admissions are due to interrogation techniques. If someone is brazen enough not to fall for them there is a good chance they will not be prosecuted.


No point blaming gardai for that or if people have infor and won't tell

This is it.

However, to have been arrested in connection with someone's murder, at least demonstrate's that theres a serious intention to get to the truth.

With this case, that intention doesn't seem to have ever existed.

In all cases there is the hope however futile that someone involved will confess.

I don't know whether confessions are ever extracted or offered in the absence of an arrest, but I suspect they are less likely to come from someone who was never arrested to start with.

That said, there's always the danger of confessions being forced out of someone.

If McMahon had actually confessed, as seems to have been the hope of the Gardai, one wonders how things would have panned out in court.

Let's consider that.

Similarly we have a confession of a poacher who now "believes" he saw Mary being driven off in a car.

Did he withhold information or was it kept out of his statement on purpose, what's the response from AGS who presumably havent "mislaid" his original statement?

Silence.

Does their silence indicate a reluctance to disagree with him?

Not at all, and they go as far as to assert that they have been looking at this case with fresh new eyes for the last five years, it having always been open of course.

Either they have royally and deliberately fooked up, twice in relation to this red car, or he is "mistaken" in his belief.

It might benefit the case if he was now invited in to assist gardai with their inquiries.

To reconcile his belief and his accusation in a garda station with a solicitor present.

But what is happening?

Nothing.

Any complaint (however likely or unlikely that it would be to happen) that Coughlan might submit to GSOC over his claimed Garda misbehaviour will most likely be dismissed as it happened too long ago according to their remit.

As would anyone else's to do with this investigation.

jenny smith

Going Forward wrote: »

This is it.

However, to have been arrested in connection with someone's murder, at least demonstrate's that theres a serious intention to get to the truth.

With this case, that intention doesn't seem to have ever existed.

In all cases there is the hope however futile that someone involved will confess.

I don't know whether confessions are ever extracted or offered in the absence of an arrest, but I suspect they are less likely to come from someone who was never arrested to start with.

That said, there's always the danger of confessions being forced out of someone.

If McMahon had actually confessed, as seems to have been the hope of the Gardai, one wonders how things would have panned out in court.

Let's consider that.

Similarly we have a confession of a poacher who now "believes" he saw Mary being driven off in a car.

Did he withhold information or was it kept out of his statement on purpose, what's the response from AGS who presumably havent "mislaid" his original statement?

Silence.

Does their silence indicate a reluctance to disagree with him?

Not at all, and they go as far as to assert that they have been looking at this case with fresh new eyes for the last five years, it having always been open of course.

Either they have royally and deliberately fooked up, twice in relation to this red car, or he is "mistaken" in his belief.

It might benefit the case if he was now invited in to assist gardai with their inquiries.

To reconcile his belief and his accusation in a garda station with a solicitor present.

But what is happening?

Nothing.

Any complaint (however likely or unlikely that it would be to happen) that Coughlan might submit to GSOC over his claimed Garda misbehaviour will most likely be dismissed as it happened too long ago according to their remit.

As would anyone else's to do with this investigation.

Agree with all of that. I was responding to the person who brought the sinnot case in as if it were the same dynamic. I also understand a similar situation prevails re fiona pender. But this is about Mary Boyle. How about we go back on topic as don't want to distract from MB case

jenny smith

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I was interviewed by a freelancer at the march the other day and he asked me do i have faith in the "cold case team"?? I replied no, I'm Republican politically (not in any parties that's just my viewpoint) and it pains me to say this - but I'd rather have the PSNI down to look at the files or the UK police over.. I know that could never happen but i share the same fears as you, I'm surprised actually that they haven't done it already brought the man whom we suspect in and give him tea and biccys for a day or 2.

I think my quote will be published in today's Star and AFAIK they are running with Charlie Flanagan's Disgraceful tweet on the matter too

in an old threadyou mentioned a mary boyle CD by Margo i think. Is it available still or as a download to buy

PaddyWilliams

Just seen the article in The Star, well done.

mvrce

looking at the Sunday papers and radio shows its strange there is no word on the recent march or dig for Mary Boyle, todays Indo is publishing information about Philip Cairns why is the media ignoring this little six year old? I am surprised at Joe Duffy, thought he was an advocate for children given he has written about the children of 1916 and the coverage he has given other missing kids. Lets hope Gemma O Doherty will continue to write about this little girl who ireland has turned its back on.

ancapailldorcha

Stuar will be taking 5 days off from this forum.

Going Forward

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Just seen the article in The Star, well done.

What it is?

PaddyWilliams

Going Forward wrote: »

What it is?

Page 12 of today's Star. Quotes from Oranbhoy, Naomi Brady and a bit about the march.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Stuar will be taking 5 days off from this forum.

Rescinded. I'm going to ask that people keep "banter" to PMs please.

Going Forward

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Page 12 of today's Star. Quotes from Oranbhoy, Naomi Brady and a bit about the march.

That's good.

I wonder have any of the papers questioned Charlie Flanagan or the Dept of Foreign Affairs about an explanation for his zz tweet responding to Newstalk's piece on Mary Boyle.

Or the Garda response to claims that Coughlan made?

jimmycrackcorm

jenny smith wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055246029
Is this available.?

Has anyone seen one of the photos mentioned in the last post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56922865&postcount=7

Personally i do not believe that

That was my post from 8 years ago. At least one of the photos was on the front of one of the tabloids here though I don't recall which.

It was over 20 years ago that I was shown the original set of photos taken from a roll of 24 that were taken by someone who had gone to Cashelard along with the Gardai and taken photos around the area. On every photo I saw something like a face or human outline against the background. To this day it remains the freakiest thing I've ever seen.

These days they would be discounted as fakes automatically because anyone could use a photo printer and make the same images, but back in 1995, I don't even think digital cameras were commonly available and from what I saw in looking at them in detail. To me they are simply inexplicable.

DonegalTech

All attempts at seeking justice prior have failed to achieve anything, most likely due to there being no wider political will to pursue it in fear of what might be found.

A General Election will very likely be called in the next 18-24 months, where these political parties and individual politicians go to polls and require local constituents to vote them in again. If no breakthrough is made in this case over the next 6 months, I suggest having a closer look at the Political Party involved in this case and making everybody in Donegal, Leitrim, Sligo, Cavan, Monaghan etc fully aware of their exact involvement.

Political parties are cocky, bullish and arrogant, but they still need votes both individually and collectively to win election's. That is the time when they have to answer questions in public, about their dealings and their character.

tayto lover

This thread is very interesting and intriguing. I haven't read it all and there seems to be a lot of opinion, hearsay and innuendo but has there been any actual evidence produced by anyone that the Garda failed to act on apart from some retired Garda members saying that there was political interference in the case at the time? I wonder why these retired Garda members are not making a bigger fuss as the resting place of a child could be found and a family could have a place to visit. Also a guilty person could be dealt with.

I can't understand how someone could prevent this happening wilfully especiall if they have children of their own. I would seriously doubt that a Garda who has children of his own could be unwilling to investigate something as terrible as this so what are the reasons?

Technique

Another local politician denies any involvement.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2016/07/18/mceniff-denies-he-is-politician-at-centre-of-mary-boyle-case/

DonegalTech

tayto lover wrote: »

This thread is very interesting and intriguing. I haven't read it all and there seems to be a lot of opinion, hearsay and innuendo but has there been any actual evidence produced by anyone that the Garda failed to act on apart from some retired Garda members saying that there was political interference in the case at the time? I wonder why these retired Garda members are not making a bigger fuss as the resting place of a child could be found and a family could have a place to visit. Also a guilty person could be dealt with.

I can't understand how someone could prevent this happening wilfully especiall if they have children of their own. I would seriously doubt that a Garda who has children of his own could be unwilling to investigate something as terrible as this so what are the reasons?

We have two retired members of the Gardai who investigated the case originally, saying there was political interference in the form of a local politician asking that members of a certain family "Not be questioned". This comes from two officers directly involved in the case, and yes they were reluctant to mention this for years.

Let be honest here, Speaking out against the Internal workings of the Gardai was not the done thing for any Garda, even a more recent case since 2010 involving a less serious penalty point cover up, which seen the whistleblower's integrity questioned in public by a Chief Commissioner.

Both retired Gardai seem to agree on their being one major suspect, who they believed was the killer, and yet he was never arrested as a suspect. When this suspect was questioned as a witness, one of the retired detectives said he felt the suspect was close to confessing, until his superior officer nudged the detective, suggesting he ease off the questioning intensity and go get the suspect some water.

Ireland can be like a padded room for people seeking justice, where you can scream at the top of your lungs, but the noise is muffled by the surrounding environmental factors.

oranbhoy67

Technique wrote: »

Another local politician denies any involvement.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2016/07/18/mceniff-denies-he-is-politician-at-centre-of-mary-boyle-case/

it is my informed belief that it was him, im glad he has brought his name into it himself . good luck trying to sue us all

jenny smith

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/sean-mceniff-says-he-is-not-politician-at-the-centre-of-mary-boyle-documentary-34893362.html

“Mr Mc Eniff is satisfied that the two former Gardai interviewed as part of the video have recently clarified that at the time of the disappearance or in the investigation that followed neither were aware of any such alleged phonecall and that there was no impediment from their superiors in the investigation as a result.”

what is the meaning of this?

jenny smith

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

it is my informed belief that it was him, im glad he has brought his name into it himself . good luck trying to sue us all

Well done on the Star bit, you are well able to deal with the media.

oranbhoy67

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Stuar will be taking 5 days off from this forum.

I hope it wasnt for calling me an ugly fecker cos I took that comment in the humour that it was intended

oranbhoy67

jenny smith wrote: »

Well done on the Star bit, you are well able to deal with the media.

I havent even seen it yet, couldnt sleep last night so slept all day and missed the sun (in sky not paper ) , must run down to shop now , and thanks !

jenny smith

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

That was my post from 8 years ago. At least one of the photos was on the front of one of the tabloids here though I don't recall which.

It was over 20 years ago that I was shown the original set of photos taken from a roll of 24 that were taken by someone who had gone to Cashelard along with the Gardai and taken photos around the area. On every photo I saw something like a face or human outline against the background. To this day it remains the freakiest thing I've ever seen.

These days they would be discounted as fakes automatically because anyone could use a photo printer and make the same images, but back in 1995, I don't even think digital cameras were commonly available and from what I saw in looking at them in detail. To me they are simply inexplicable.

Thanks. i guess " I don't believe that" is a bit harsh but I am sure you know what I meant.There were some digital cameras in 1995
http://www.digicamhistory.com/1995%20A-C.html and photoshop existed http://www.dmd-digital-retouching.com/blog/20-years-photoshop-welcome-screens/

oranbhoy67

jenny smith wrote: »

in an old threadyou mentioned a mary boyle CD by Margo i think. Is it available still or as a download to buy

I dont know .. i will ask her the next time I speak to her and get back to you !