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Cycle lanes now mandatory again, apparently

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    #32
    brianomc
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭brianomc


    If there are 2 lanes of traffic going in the same direction, would it make sense if traffic in the left lane had to yield to traffic in the right lane if they wanted to turn left at the junction ahead. Of course it doesn't. But that's what those off-road lanes ask cyclists to do. Sure the lane is "safe" but it's also inefficient having to give way even though you are going straight ahead.

    fcil43.png

    If the lane is an on-road lane the cyclist is more visible to the motorist, they should still throw a glance over their shoulder for their own safety of course.

    In the photo a few posts back it's even worse as the lane curves away from the road meaning the cyclist has to stop as it's not that easy to turn your head exorcist-style to see behind you from the angle you are left at.


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    #33
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,307 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    No I mean instead of cyclists moaning about lack of infrastructure perhaps they should use what they currently have and make official complaints

    As a cyclists who commutes 200km a week I am not willing to put my life at risk and make my three kids fatherless just so I can make a complaint.

    If it's safe I will use it, but if not I will use the road / bus lane


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    #34
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    No I mean instead of cyclists moaning about lack of infrastructure perhaps they should use what they currently have and make official complaints about tracks that are unsuitable for use to the council. It was only a few years ago that every motorist gave out about the condition of Irish roads and now there is a pretty good network of routes throughout Ireland. They used what they had.

    The problem with your suggestion is that people on bikes, like other road users, have a duty to avoid injury and damage to personal property.

    If you are attempting to instruct people to use devices (incompetent cycle facilities) that self evidently increase the risk of injury and also damage bikes - then in effect you are instructing them to break the law.


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    #35
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    listermint wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with other road users but owning a car motorcycle and push bike allows me to see that all road users are morons and they come from all manners of vehicles. The constant need to demonise a road user based on method of transport is utterly stupid rather than demonising the individual doing the action whatever that maybe.


    Im sure as a professional driver you have been overtaken badly by all manners of transport. No?




    ......



    Yes but with pedestrians or cyclists they have no cage so are looking death in the face quite a lot.


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    #36
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    ted1 wrote: »
    As a cyclists who commutes 200km a week I am not willing to put my life at risk and make my three kids fatherless just so I can make a complaint.

    If it's safe I will use it, but if not I will use the road / bus lane

    No doubt you are a fine role model for those kids, when your message is 'break the law when it suits you'. The cyclists motto.


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    #37
    Crow92
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Crow92


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    No doubt you are a fine role model for those kids, when your message is 'break the law when it suits you'. The cyclists motto.

    Well better than having "He followed the letter of the law" on his gravestone


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    #38
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Fantastic news. In addition to this another good step would be to make it mandatory for cyclists to wear a red flashing tabard front and back so they can be clearly identified in the traffic flow. That and the introduction of a test are measures that need to be taken soon.


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    #39
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,307 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    No doubt you are a fine role model for those kids, when your message is 'break the law when it suits you'. The cyclists motto.

    I'm a fine role model for self preservation. There's no point having a headstone saying "sure he was a fine role model "


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    #40
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Theres nothing telling pedestrians to yield either, should they just wander straight in to traffic?

    But cyclists are traffic, pedestrians are not


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    #41
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    In addition to this another good step would be to make it mandatory for cyclists to wear a red flashing tabard front and back so they can be clearly identified in the traffic flow.

    No amount of flashing lights will make people open their eyes and look around them.

    My biggest shock when I learned how to drive was just how easy it is to spot cyclists, track them and avoid creating danger for them.


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    #42
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Fantastic news. In addition to this another good step would be to make it mandatory for cyclists to wear a red flashing tabard front and back so they can be clearly identified in the traffic flow. That and the introduction of a test are measures that need to be taken soon.

    Keep on topic please.

    -- moderator


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    #43
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Fantastic news. In addition to this another good step would be to make it mandatory for cyclists to wear a red flashing tabard front and back so they can be clearly identified in the traffic flow. That and the introduction of a test are measures that need to be taken soon.

    It's only fantastic news if you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Take a bike, cycle it around Dublin and anywhere else that has cycle lanes. Tell me what state they are in.

    Red flashing tabard? So which way is front and which way is back? There's already a law in place which requires cyclists to wear lights at night. So instead of enforcing the law, you want to introduce new laws?

    Who are you going to test? What are you going to test them on? Do you think cyclists should carry a cycling license? Why not just make bikes illegal, get straight to the point and just get rid of them altogether, you'd be much happier then, right?


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    #44
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    cyclists of ireland should unite into a secret overnight prank, and go out and create conditions for motorists which cyclists face in using cycle lanes.
    roads that abruptly end for no reason, transitions between two roads consisting of kerbs six inches high, random street furniture placed in the middle of the lane, material spread across the lanes which cause punctures, and other road users shouting at them for daring to avoid the obstacles in their path.
    i'm sure that motorists would be delighted with the cyclists for helping them see the light.


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    #45
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    cyclists of ireland should unite into a secret overnight prank, and go out and create conditions for motorists which cyclists face in using cycle lanes.
    roads that abruptly end for no reason, transitions between two roads consisting of kerbs six inches high, random street furniture placed in the middle of the lane, material spread across the lanes which cause punctures, and other road users shouting at them for daring to avoid the obstacles in their path.

    I wonder if they planned the original Luas routes the easy they did as an act of solidarity with cyclists?


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    #46
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i remember reading a claim (would be interested if anyone here can confirm or deny it) that it was briefly considered when the green line was being planned, that they'd run a bike lane alongside it, but it was quickly decided it'd add far too much cost.


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    #47
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,307 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i remember reading a claim (would be interested if anyone here can confirm or deny it) that it was briefly considered when the green line was being planned, that they'd run a bike lane alongside it, but it was quickly decided it'd add far too much cost.
    Was never an option , the green line runs on the old harcourt line and the space wasn't available


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    #48
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    ted1 wrote: »
    Was never an option , the green line runs on the old harcourt line and the space wasn't available

    I did think they had mentioned it for any parts that were essentially new but then it was dismissed. Share who would be riding a bicycle in the good times :pac: It may just have been an article commenting on it before finalization rather than an actual consideration.


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    #49
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Personally I am much more interested in which dark forces have made this decision in the Department of Transport, and why.

    Can anyone tell me as I am not up to speed - monument you might be able to help - why this policy change might be happening and what the goal is here ? I cannot find PR on their site around this, did anyone issue actual written official guidance ?


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    #50
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i remember reading a claim (would be interested if anyone here can confirm or deny it) that it was briefly considered when the green line was being planned, that they'd run a bike lane alongside it, but it was quickly decided it'd add far too much cost.
    ted1 wrote: »
    Was never an option , the green line runs on the old harcourt line and the space wasn't available

    A two-way cycle path over the Dundrum bridge would have been great for avoiding the junction under it -- even if the cycle path only linked to the nearby roads and did not go further along the line.

    Between Dundrum and Balally might have just worked if done when it in planning. No space issue between Balally and Sandyford (would have been very easy to fit in a high quality route at planning with very little extra cost, less so now).

    Between Sandyford and The Gallops would have been fantastic for allowing access to offices (Microsoft, Vodafone etc) and access across the M50. And between The Gallops and Cherrywood would be nice.

    trellheim wrote: »
    Personally I am much more interested in which dark forces have made this decision in the Department of Transport, and why.

    Can anyone tell me as I am not up to speed - monument you might be able to help - why this policy change might be happening and what the goal is here ? I cannot find PR on their site around this, did anyone issue actual written official guidance ?

    An FOI request might be needed to find out more -- article was based on questions to the department.


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    #51
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    monument wrote: »
    A two-way cycle path over the Dundrum bridge would have been great for avoiding the junction under it -- even if the cycle path only linked to the nearby roads and did not go further along the line.

    Between Dundrum and Balally might have just worked if done when it in planning. No space issue between Balally and Sandyford (would have been very easy to fit in a high quality route at planning with very little extra cost, less so now).

    Between Sandyford and The Gallops would have been fantastic for allowing access to offices (Microsoft, Vodafone etc) and access across the M50. And between The Gallops and Cherrywood would be nice.




    An FOI request might be needed to find out more -- article was based on questions to the department.



    Simple answer the majority would still cycle on the road.

    So it would have been a complete waste.


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    #52
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Simple answer the majority would still cycle on the road.
    nonsense. if you had a choice of a cycle lane with few red lights and little interaction with traffic, most people would take it in a shot.

    you don't see cyclists using the seafront road between clontarf and sutton much, they're using the cycle lane precisely because it's a superior option.


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    #53
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Simple answer the majority would still cycle on the road.

    So it would have been a complete waste.

    Which Is simply untrue. Get on a bike in the morning and you will find (small children aside) the majority of cyclists use the bike lane. A small minority don't because they are faster and are overtaking or they know the lane and know the associated issues.

    I am not a fan of them and think far better solutions could be found, and would prefer if the majority were abandoned and given back to pedestrians but that still doesn't mean you should mislead people because a small minority don't use them.


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    #54
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭trellheim


    you don't see cyclists using the seafront road between clontarf and sutton much, they're using the cycle lane precisely because it's a superior option.
    Not right now its not given the horrible roadworks around st Annes , but I do take your point.


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    #55
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the biggest problem i would expect with such a cycle lane is that it would also be too tempting for pedestrians to avoid.


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    #56
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Which Is simply untrue. Get on a bike in the morning and you will find (small children aside) the majority of cyclists use the bike lane. A small minority don't because they are faster and are overtaking or they know the lane and know the associated issues.

    I am not a fan of them and think far better solutions could be found, and would prefer if the majority were abandoned and given back to pedestrians but that still doesn't mean you should mislead people because a small minority don't use them.

    I think cyclists only use cycle tracks that are completely convenient on their current route. For example, many use the tracks like the ones on the Grand Canal stretch because they are like a "highway" for cyclists but where there are a few obstacles, like a curb or two, in the way the lane goes unused by most as the road is the more convenient and easy option.


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    #57
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Which Is simply untrue. Get on a bike in the morning and you will find (small children aside) the majority of cyclists use the bike lane. A small minority don't because they are faster and are overtaking or they know the lane and know the associated issues.

    I am not a fan of them and think far better solutions could be found, and would prefer if the majority were abandoned and given back to pedestrians but that still doesn't mean you should mislead people because a small minority don't use them.

    I do cycle and drive through town and all over Dublin.
    It's an observation as to not all use cycle lanes even when there are really good ones in place.


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    #58
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,480 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    It's an observation as to not all use cycle lanes even when there are really good ones in place.
    any ones in particular?


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    #59
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    I think cyclists only use cycle tracks that are completely convenient on their current route. For example, many use the tracks like the ones on the Grand Canal stretch because they are like a "highway" for cyclists but where there are a few obstacles, like a curb or two, in the way the lane goes unused by most as the road is the more convenient and easy option.
    And I would disagree, there are a small minority who will never use them in any circumstances, for various reasons. There are those who use them only when safe, those only when it is convenient but there are a large number who use them regardless and are oblivious to the increased danger they are in because they have been brought up to believe that a cycle lane is the only place for cyclists.
    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I do cycle and drive through town and all over Dublin.
    It's an observation as to not all use cycle lanes even when there are really good ones in place.
    I might even be one of those people, I don't use them when they are increase danger, when they are not maintained, when they added unjustifiable inconvenience, when I am overtaking, when they are used as a car park, when they are used as a dumping ground, when they have broken bottles spread across them and so on. Interestingly though, I am more than capable of staying at the speed limit on my bike, I don't hold up cars travelling at or under the speed limit. I do use them when they are available and safe to use, do not remove me from fellow traffics minds or lines of sight, when they don't cost me priority at junctions, where I will not be interfering with pedestrians who have been forced onto them because the council stupidly painted a bike sign on a narrow and busy pavement.

    Where are these really good ones by the way, i have found a few usable ones, but no really good ones.


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    #60
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users Posts: 12,420 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Fantastic news. In addition to this another good step would be to make it mandatory for cyclists to wear a red flashing tabard front and back so they can be clearly identified in the traffic flow. That and the introduction of a test are measures that need to be taken soon.

    This post is everything that is wrong with society today. Bicycles have been on the road longer than any other traffic apart from the horse and cart. Anyone can ride one as they please and issues were few and far between until automobiles appeared. Yet it's the cyclists that are in the wrong when a car decides to plough through them because they are too lazy to look or signal?

    Why exactly is a test needed and what are they going to test?
    Will every child in the country have to do it too? How will it be policed?
    The problem with this country is too much regulation, bureaucracy and box ticking, mainly to line government coffers and yet here's someone looking for more pointless and unnecessary tests?


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    #61
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    any ones in particular?

    This is one example:
    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/53%C2%B025'36.0%22N+6%C2%B021'29.4%22W/@53.4266542,-6.3589795,143m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d53.426653!4d-6.358174

    The cycle lanes on this road are rarely used. Most cyclist use the road and this is brand new infrastructure.


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