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Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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  • #692
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,993 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    mikeymouse wrote: »
    can she do this?
    I think I read here (paraphrasing) that the coroner refused to hold an inquest because it could cause too much upset to Mary's mother.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #693
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    mikeymouse wrote: »
    can she do this?

    A decision to hold an inquest is at the discretion of the local coroner.

    It is reported that he has been informed that an inquest would have an adverse affect on the health of Mary's mother.

    So he's decided he's not holding one.

    And supposedly the mother has written it into her will that even when she's dead when her health won't be adversely affected, she still doesn't want one.

    None of which carries any legal weight anyway.

    Ann’s legal action has been taken on the grounds that the coroner Dr Denis McCauley has recently informed her lawyers that it is not his intention to hold an inquest.

    The coroner has told them that an inquest would have an adverse effect on Mary Boyle’s mother Ann Boyle. He has also stated that An Garda Siochana would adjourn an inquest should one be convened.



    http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/mary-boyle/





    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/frances-fitzgerald-cannot-open-inquest-into-mary-boyle-case-1.2653740


  • #694
    Missyelliot2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    the mother has stopped an inquest so far

    Really believe that the mum knew what happened- stop an inquest.


  • #695
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    This was discussed earlier in the thread,
    the consensus was that it doesn't matter what she wants now, or
    even when she's dead for that matter.


  • #696
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    He has also stated that An Garda Siochana would adjourn an inquest should one be convened.

    Time to find a patsy?


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  • #697
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,993 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    mikeymouse wrote: »
    He has also stated that An Garda Siochana would adjourn an inquest should one be convened.

    Time to find a patsy?
    Many a Patsy has passed away in the meantime. Others are available.

    What's with the italics anyway?

    "The patsy you are trying to reach is currently unavailable. Please try again later."

    There will be no patsy here.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #698
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    I really cannot fathom why the coroner will not hold an inquest.
    His reported "reasons" are nonsense.
    Whether the inquest is adjourned or not when called is immaterial.
    What real impact could such a proceeding have on the mother after her daughter is missing 30 years?

    Even if it did impact the health of the mother, why is that even a consideration?

    Why is the coroner behaving like this?


    This is the first reported action by anyone involved that has caused raised eyebrows here ...... I just cannot figure this out.


  • #699
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    Hi all. Sorry to butt in on your discussion. I have being following this story for the past few weeks, have seen the documentary and have read all I can on it. There has been a lot said regarding the political interference side of the story and the famous phone call. If we presume for a minute there was no phone call and no political interference or interference of any kind then what possible motivation is there for not at least questioning the main suspect.

    Also, I'm not trying to imply anything by this, but is it a fact that Gerry Gallagher was or still is in Fianna Fáil as is mentioned in the documentary?


  • #700
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    Hi all. Sorry to butt in on your discussion. I have being following this story for the past few weeks, have seen the documentary and have read all I can on it. There has been a lot said regarding the political interference side of the story and the famous phone call. If we presume for a minute there was no phone call and no political interference or interference of any kind then what possible motivation is there for not at least questioning the main suspect.

    Also, I'm not trying to imply anything by this, but is it a fact that Gerry Gallagher was or still is in Fianna Fáil as is mentioned in the documentary?

    I believe that all persons connected with the affair were questioned.
    What seems to be an issue with some is that certain persons were not questioned under caution - arrested and questioned as a suspect.
    For that to happen there would need to be sufficient evidence to make the arrest in the first place. Apparently there was not sufficient evidence to make that arrest.


  • #701
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I believe that all persons connected with the affair were questioned.
    What seems to be an issue with some is that certain persons were not questioned under caution - arrested and questioned as a suspect.
    For that to happen there would need to be sufficient evidence to make the arrest in the first place. Apparently there was not sufficient evidence to make that arrest.

    Thanks for replying. I was under the impression that the last person to have seen her alive was only questioned informally but I'd say you're right. Also you would think there would be more suspicion placed on the last person to see her alive by the Gardai assuming there was no interference.


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  • #702
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    Thanks for replying. I was under the impression that the last person to have seen her alive was only questioned informally but I'd say you're right. Also you would think there would be more suspicion placed on the last person to see her alive by the Gardai assuming there was no interference.

    Well 'informally' is what I described .... the alternative is being treated as a suspect and arrested for good reason and questioned under caution ............. that is my understanding, but am open to correction by legal eagles ;)


  • #703
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    Hi all. Sorry to butt in on your discussion. I have being following this story for the past few weeks, have seen the documentary and have read all I can on it. There has been a lot said regarding the political interference side of the story and the famous phone call. If we presume for a minute there was no phone call and no political interference or interference of any kind then what possible motivation is there for not at least questioning the main suspect.

    Also, I'm not trying to imply anything by this, but is it a fact that Gerry Gallagher was or still is in Fianna Fáil as is mentioned in the documentary?

    Gerry Gallagher told me personally that he was a member of fianna fail a few months ago , whether he still is now or was talking past sense I do not know but he 100% said it.

    Also when my cousin Ann was in the dail to try and bring up this subject a FF TD of a closeby neighboring county approached her in the halls with the words " helllo Ann , how is your uncle gerry getting on ?" He was asked how he knew gerry and he replied that he (gerry) was as good FF man


  • #704
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Well 'informally' is what I described .... the alternative is being treated as a suspect and arrested for good reason and questioned under caution ............. that is my understanding, but am open to correction by legal eagles ;)

    Would being the last person to see her alive not be good enough reason to treat that person as a suspect?


  • #705
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Gerry Gallagher told me personally that he was a member of fianna fail a few months ago , whether he still is now or was talking past sense I do not know but he 100% said it.

    Also when my cousin Ann was in the dail to try and bring up this subject a FF TD of a closeby neighboring county approached her in the halls with the words " helllo Ann , how is your uncle gerry getting on ?" He was asked how he knew gerry and he replied that he (gerry) was as good FF man

    Thanks for clearing that up.


  • #706
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Well 'informally' is what I described .... the alternative is being treated as a suspect and arrested for good reason and questioned under caution ............. that is my understanding, but am open to correction by legal eagles ;)

    Not thinking about this case specifically, but there are two possibilities in such a scenario, that an investigating team would accept or reject an account given.

    With not much to go on there would be a heavy reliance on correctly questioning anyone and looking for cracks in their story.

    The plausibility of their story.

    Would the account stand up to scrutiny if the characters were different.

    Say a person in charge of a youngster. A babysitter for example.

    Bringing them for a walk in the park. Or permitting a child to follow you to the shops.

    Would their account stand up to scrutiny or should it be dismissed?

    If it's dismissed what happens then?

    I don't know myself.


  • #707
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    A certain FF councillor in Donegal was asked a simple question on Facebook about Mary Boyle and he shut down his account. You would have to wonder if these people are innocent why they don't come out and say so. If my name was been thrown about on social media with accusations I'd be trying to protest my innocence.


  • #708
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    A certain FF councillor in Donegal was asked a simple question on Facebook about Mary Boyle and he shut down his account. You would have to wonder if these people are innocent why they don't come out and say so. If my name was been thrown about on social media with accusations I'd be trying to protest my innocence.

    What were they asked?


  • #709
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    Going Forward wrote: »
    What were they asked?

    He was asked if he was the politician that rang the Garda station, him being a politician in the area at the time. If he wasn't then why not say so like Pat the cope did in the dail. Also isn't it strange that there is silence amongst the politicians in that area. You would think they would want this case solved.


  • #710
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    Would being the last person to see her alive not be good enough reason to treat that person as a suspect?

    With suspicion yes .... but sufficient to arrest? I doubt it. Not without some other indications, such as signs of something actually happening in the area. Nothing was found and so there was nothing to base an arrest on I guess.


  • #711
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    He was asked if he was the politician that rang the Garda station, him being a politician in the area at the time. If he wasn't then why not say so like Pat the cope did in the dail. Also isn't it strange that there is silence amongst the politicians in that area. You would think they would want this case solved.

    His deleting his account doesn't prove anything of course.

    I doubt many politicians are facebook literate in the first place.

    Do they always operate their own accounts/maybe he did of course.

    Many availed of publicly funded courses to enable them to get a handle on operating their social media opportunities.

    Maybe it contained advice that shutting an account down was the way to proceed in such circumstances. ....


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  • #712
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    Going Forward wrote: »
    His deleting his account doesn't prove anything of course.

    I doubt many politicians are facebook literate in the first place.

    Do they always operate their own accounts/maybe he did of course.

    Many availed of publicly funded courses to enable them to get a handle on operating their social media opportunities.

    Maybe it contained advice that shutting an account down was the way to proceed in such circumstances. ....

    If I was asked a question like that and I knew I was innocent then I would want to clear my name. But like you said maybe he doesn't control his account. But surly he was made aware of the post by whoever did shut down the account.


  • #713
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Gerry Gallagher told me personally that he was a member of fianna fail a few months ago , whether he still is now or was talking past sense I do not know but he 100% said it.

    Also when my cousin Ann was in the dail to try and bring up this subject a FF TD of a closeby neighboring county approached her in the halls with the words " helllo Ann , how is your uncle gerry getting on ?" He was asked how he knew gerry and he replied that he (gerry) was as good FF man

    Was just trying to think back about what life was like back in March 1977. Realised my then fiancé and I signed for our first house on March 19th, two days after Mary Boyle disappeared.
    A few months later, FF won the GE with a massive majority. Jack Lynch abolished the rates. Iirc, there was election fever for months before the election. Would it be possible that, as the suspect was a member of FF, as reported, that might have been sufficient reason for the FF councillor to 'interfere' in his questioning? Wouldn't any hint of scandal for the party have to be avoided at such an intense time?

    Just my tuppenceworth. I could be way off course!


  • #714
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    If I was asked a question like that and I knew I was innocent then I would want to clear my name. But like you said maybe he doesn't control his account. But surly he was made aware of the post by whoever did shut down the account.

    To be honest, if I was asked about it on Facebook I don't know if I'd be using Facebook to protest my innocence.

    The thing is, he cannot prove he didn't intervene in the same way as no one can PROVE that he made the call.

    He could always release a statement denying and rejecting the charges made on social media I suppose.


  • #715
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    brooke 2 wrote: »
    Was just trying to think back about what life was like back in March 1977. Realised my then fiancé and I signed for our first house on March 19th, two days after Mary Boyle disappeared.
    A few months later, FF won the GE with a massive majority. Jack Lynch abolished the rates. Iirc, there was election fever for months before the election. Would it be possible that, as the suspect was a member of FF, as reported, that might have been sufficient reason for the FF councillor to 'interfere' in his questioning? Wouldn't any hint of scandal for the party have to be avoided at such an intense time?

    Just my tuppenceworth. I could be way off course!

    Some good information there. But why would the Gardai be willing to agree to this politicians request?


  • #716
    JohnCash0260
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭JohnCash0260


    Going Forward wrote: »
    To be honest, if I was asked about it on Facebook I don't know if I'd be using Facebook to protest my innocence.

    The thing is, he cannot prove he didn't intervene in the same way as no one can PROVE that he made the call.

    He could always release a statement denying and rejecting the charges made on social media I suppose.

    You're right but seen as Pat the cope was willing to make a statement why doesn't this guy. Maybe he will shortly.


  • #717
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    You're right but seen as Pat the cope was willing to make a statement why doesn't this guy. Maybe he will shortly.

    Or maybe he'll do nothing.

    There's nothing to compel him to do anything.

    There's nothing compelling anyone to do anything about the case from what I can see.

    There seems to be no enthusiasm from any quarter to progress anything, from the local coroner to the local gaurds.


  • #718
    GavMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭GavMan


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    You're right but seen as Pat the cope was willing to make a statement why doesn't this guy. Maybe he will shortly.

    Perhaps he doesn't have the luxury of Parliamentary Privilege like Pat The Cope does...

    (Note, I've no idea who you're referring to so I've no idea if they do or don't)


  • #719
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    JohnCash0260 wrote: »
    Some good information there. But why would the Gardai be willing to agree to this politicians request?

    Quid pro quo? Reported earlier that there might have been quite a close friendship between a senior Garda and the politician. Junior Gardai frustrated when they tried to charge certain people who were involved in casinos, those people also, allegedly, being members of aforementioned political party. (Am really trying to play it safe here. ;))


  • #720
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Or maybe he'll do nothing.

    There's nothing to compel him to do anything.

    There's nothing compelling anyone to do anything about the case from what I can see.

    There seems to be no enthusiasm from any quarter to progress anything, from the local coroner to the local gaurds.

    Even the Minister for Justice stated that she is
    respecting the wishes of the mother, who, as we know, does not want an inquest!!


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  • #721
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    IMO the political interference angle is a red herring.


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