Tour de France Stage 12: Montpellier-Mt.Ventoux 184KM Spoilers

Leroy42 · 14-07-2016 09:19PM

C3PO wrote: »

So every time a crazy fan doesn't fancy a race leader he just knocks him off his bike?
I think todays solution is the fairest under the, very difficult, circumstances!

I think the fairest was to neutralise from the start of the climb and let the group ahead keep their finishing positions and gaps

MrMischief · 14-07-2016 09:20PM

C3PO wrote: »

So every time a crazy fan doesn't fancy a race leader he just knocks him off his bike?
I think todays solution is the fairest under the, very difficult, circumstances!

If stage winner Tom de Gendt lost the stage due to a similar incident i guarantee you that the original finish times would have stood!

GT_TDI_150 · 14-07-2016 09:24PM

MrMischief wrote: »

All I'm saying is I cannot for the life of me understand why Porte was working with Froome when TVG, his team lead, was being dropped by his attacks! Teejay is still ahead of Porte in GC after the revised times.

Porte's riding today isnt what I'm questioning.

Porte took a wheel from a rider from a team other than his own in the Giro15. This is an infraction of the rules, he got a 2 minute penalty and a fine.

How is that different from Froome today completing part of the course without the bike (its not like he took 10 passes to get around the debri of the crash, he ran up the course)? Clear infraction of the rules, fine and time pen no?

gordongekko · 14-07-2016 09:25PM

MrMischief wrote: »

If stage winner Tom de Gendt lost the stage due to a similar incident i guarantee you that the original finish times would have stood!

going for a stage and going for the GC are two very different situations

Kaisr Sose · 14-07-2016 09:27PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

From the link that Neris posted above.

Crazy! :eek:

https://twitter.com/ju_drem/status/753286302095777792

Looks like a perfect day for a cycle otherwise!!

Just watched the stage on ITV4 plus 1. WOW.

It might have been said already but this crowding was probably an untended consequence of shortening the stage. Rather than people spread out on the extra 6km, they crammed into a shorter area. And, it being Bastille day, meant crowds probably reached peak levels too -a double whammy!

GT_TDI_150 · 14-07-2016 09:27PM

MrMischief wrote: »

If stage winner Tom de Gendt lost the stage due to a similar incident i guarantee you that the original finish times would have stood!

wasnt there an incident in recent years where a fan went to push a rider(in a positive helping fashion ie. up hill) in the final few km of a climb but he ended ip skipped a gear or un clipping or similar ... he lost contact with his fellow escapee(s) and didnt get back on ... no time back there either.

MrMischief · 14-07-2016 09:28PM

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Porte's riding today isnt what I'm questioning.

Porte took a wheel from a rider from a team other than his own in the Giro15. This is an infraction of the rules, he got a 2 minute penalty and a fine.

How is that different from Froome today completing part of the course without the bike (its not like he took 10 passes to get around the debri of the crash, he ran up the course)? Clear infraction of the rules, fine and time pen no?

I agree with your points - we were talking about two different issues,

Dan a huge loser with that decision! Was killing himself to limit the damage and get back on to eventually think he had made up time at the finish line...only then to find out he'd actually lost more time than what he probably would have without the drama!

MrMischief · 14-07-2016 09:30PM

gordongekko wrote: »

going for a stage and going for the GC are two very different situations

I completely disagree!!! Its either a racing incident or its not!

Thats the root of the problem that favours the bigger teams no matter what the sport.

Brian? · 14-07-2016 09:31PM

There have been any number of incidents down the years without this nonsense. I'm disgusted

neris · 14-07-2016 09:31PM

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

wasnt there an incident in recent years where a fan went to push a rider(in a positive helping fashion ie. up hill) in the final few km of a climb but he ended ip skipped a gear or un clipping or similar ... he lost contact with his fellow escapee(s) and didnt get back on ... no time back there either.

Giro 2014 on the Zoncalon. The 2nd on the road was pushed into the rear wheel of michael rodgers and lost touch with him.

GT_TDI_150 · 14-07-2016 09:32PM

There have been so many incident where riders crash and no timing were adjusted ...

In roubaux a few years back didnt Stybar crash in the last 20km while in a lead group ...

Kaisr Sose · 14-07-2016 09:33PM

brianomc wrote: »

Aru took a bottle off the car to use as a slingshot, dumped the bottle immediately without even taking a sip.
I think he was also getting his bike "worked on" for a long time without actually doing anything to it.

Yea, it was completely OTT. Commissaries blew their whistle three times! Blatant towing / drafting / feigning mechanical etc. Then ARU's team mate was p'd off because he was getting dropped by the speed of the chase.

MrMischief · 14-07-2016 09:33PM

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

wasnt there an incident in recent years where a fan went to push a rider(in a positive helping fashion ie. up hill) in the final few km of a climb but he ended ip skipped a gear or un clipping or similar ... he lost contact with his fellow escapee(s) and didnt get back on ... no time back there either.

Countless incidents you could reference. Flecha was livid on Eurosport today regarding his crash in 2011 - him and Jonnie knocked down by a car at speed at the race wasnt even neutralised!

Brian? · 14-07-2016 09:34PM

What if Mollema hadn't killed himself in the last km to take time back? What would they have done then? Why is Mollema punished for recovering quicker and riding hard to the finish.

Kaisr Sose · 14-07-2016 09:34PM

godtabh wrote: »

How many bikes does Aru want?

I guess just one that fits him ...:-)

wpd · 14-07-2016 09:34PM

interesting precedent here now
when Hoogerland and Flecha were hit by the press car they got no allowances from the race organisation

Bad things happen over 3 weeks thats what makes it interesting however in the last few years these events are being neutralised for
various riders and teams but not all

neris · 14-07-2016 09:37PM

another thing that pisses me of watching on tv with spectators and male spectators in particular are Mankinis, they were funny about 10 years ago when one or 2 "crazy" fans worse them for a laugh but its beyond a joke now, i dont particularly want to see some fat pissed arse or group of arses running along side a rider or some twat in a mankini with a wig shoved in around his nuts

.......End of rant.............

conibog · 14-07-2016 09:40PM

Just to clarify for the people here who thinks that Froome should get a penality for running.
A course commissaire said on the radio today that it is not illegal to complete some of the stage without a bike (ie running, taking a ride in a car is off course forbiden), however a rider must cross the finish line with a bike.

Kaisr Sose · 14-07-2016 09:40PM

xxyyzz wrote: »

He looks up for it (Quintana). Sky look knackered.

There was no devastating kick in Quintannas two attacks. Knew he had not got it at that stage. Don't thing Froome was on a flier of a day either - he was not tight in his team mates wheels at that point but he is going well-just not super well!

MrMischief · 14-07-2016 09:42PM

Out of interest...were there any more issues once the yellow jersey group went through as I'd imagine there would be more of a funnelling affect with the number of riders in each group.

neris · 14-07-2016 09:42PM

The Giro push from 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw_8Gj7SIm0

Flechas crash in 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJEtNfnDLCk

Kaisr Sose · 14-07-2016 09:47PM

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Can't quite understand why Froome wasn't able to ride the neutral service bike. Would be interesting to see in more detail.

I mean, if Jens can do it, surely the greatest cyclist in the world can do it.

Wrong pedals?
Bike too small?

Normal reasons ...

Or his cleats were mashed from his 200m dash? They would not like the abuse of a 200m race up Ventoux!

retalivity · 14-07-2016 09:49PM

Ridiculous precedent set, All the more galling when they got away with that joke of a neutralisation earlier.

Kaisr Sose · 14-07-2016 09:50PM

isitraining wrote: »

The least elegant looking Kenyan running I've ever seen!

Same style as Paula Radcliffe - I always said Chris cycled a bike like Paula Radcliffe ran, but I never thought he would also run like her!

retalivity · 14-07-2016 09:52PM

So if say on another day quintana cannot follow a froome attack, can he turn into the fans or a moto, manufacture a crash, mosey on up the hill after and get the time difference nullified??

MrMischief · 14-07-2016 09:54PM

retalivity wrote: »

So if say on another day quintana cannot follow a froome attack, can he turn into the fans or a moto, manufacture a crash, mosey on up the hill after and get the time difference nullified??

Well thats the precedent that has been set....look forward to Ronaldo taking up cycling so he can dive off his bike and still win a race!

Kaisr Sose · 14-07-2016 09:57PM

kenmc wrote: »

don't see why he couldn't have taken his bike with him instead of littering the place. his team car had to stop to collect it anyway, causing chaos anyway. then he would have completed the distance with his bike.

You are thinking with a clear head, no pressure and no yellow jersey on your shoulders...bringing the bike made no sense anyway. Clearly Froome thinks clear under pressure—more marginal gains to aggregate for Sir Dave!

odyssey06 · 14-07-2016 09:58PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, but the way the ASO have done it they have deemed the match over at that stage. Froome was ahead, but who knows what the others could have done in the final few minutes. They might well have been holding a bit back to claw back as Froome slowed down.
So basically (and of course this is not Froomes fault) you can launch a massive attack and if you are starting to struggle fall off your bike and they'll just give you the stage end. That an extreme, but once you go down this route it is very hard to draw a line.
Contador crashed and nobody waited for him. What about the Giro when Steven Kruijswijk crashed? Why not wait for him or neutralise the stage then?
I'm not against Froome not loosing out due to this, but to end up gaining because of it?

Contador crashes were an in sport event. It was the equivalent of say, Ronaldo going off injured as a result of a tackle by another player in the Euro Championship final. That's "all in the game". This is totally different sporting situation. I don't see how anyone can compare deliberately falling off your bike with being taken out due to an incident like this.
What's hard is knowing how to compensate for the incident, but any kind of time penalty for someone in this situation would make a mockery of the sport of cycling. It's not hard to recognise that this is an exceptional circumstance demanding exceptional action.
It's not a sport as far as I'm concerned if outside human intervention can take out a competitor in the course of the event and the authorities allow the result to stand.
If this differs from how similar recent incidents were dealt with e.g. at the Giro, the only conclusion to be drawn is that those decisions were wrong.

GT_TDI_150 · 14-07-2016 10:00PM

Didnt realise they gave Porte and Froome the same time as Molema ...

The initial impression I got was that they took the gaps from the time of the crash, but this is evenmore ridiculous.

Like said above, what if Mollema had decided to saunter up the hill? what time would they have gone for then?

GT_TDI_150 · 14-07-2016 10:05PM

To use the football analogy ...

Sunderland ... beach ball ... Liverpool ... 1-0.

That was as clear a case of fan intervention we've seen in recent years in football ... I dont remember that result being reversed.

Tour de France Stage 12: Montpellier-Mt.Ventoux 184KM **Spoilers**

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Tour de France Stage 12: Montpellier-Mt.Ventoux 184KM Spoilers