Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

carrollsno1 · 13-07-2016 10:29PM

Freedominacup are your cows calving all year round or block calving in the spring?

Waffletraktor · 13-07-2016 10:30PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Off topic. Got full results for malting (winter) barley harvest. Average across all acres 1.922tons and nothing made malt. This was spring malting varities planted in Nov/Dec. Shyte. Looks like a large chunk of French malting barley is to be dumped into feed.

Tucking into wheat Atm and quality is surprisingly good. First reports are pr 14.7% with 76kph. No yields as weighbridge receipts need proper accounting. Drivers reckon circa 3.25ton acre.

Will be started here before this day week. Terrible year for BG fook all plants just crazy tiller numbers, as in 20+ p plant. No crop looks great but none look bad, yet. Though i know a few who are in trouble this year after the wet winter iykwim wheel marking all over crops very obviously and a potential 2012 harvest on the cards now with fusarium and occasional heavy showers.
Drainage is showing the best poosible investent a farm can make on heavy stuff, rather than your discount 900 fendt or new style Disco sport :rolleyes:. Look to do some extra mole ploughing if itsuits

Dawggone · 13-07-2016 10:35PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Will be started here before this day week. Terrible year for BG fook all plants just crazy tiller numbers, as in 20+ p plant. No crop looks great but none look bad, yet. Though i know a few who are in trouble this year after the wet winter iykwim wheel marking all over crops very obviously and a potential 2012 harvest on the cards now with fusarium and occasional heavy showers.
Drainage is showing the best poosible investent a farm can make on heavy stuff, rather than your discount 900 fendt or new style Disco sport :rolleyes:. Look to do some extra mole ploughing if itsuits

Same here. Fusarium everywhere. Ground is perfect in fairness...

yewtree · 13-07-2016 11:28PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Any mention of how the crossbred will be seriously losing out in terms of solids make - up in a low price year like now, with bf worth so little, the make - up of a high production hols herd will be very similar in terms of ratios of bf to pr herd average here last year was 4%bf 3.5pr, a crossbred herd would be far more spaced usually say around 4.9bf 3.8pr......

Not sure what your getting at here, with our coop (Aurivo) a .1% increase in buffer fat above base at 3.6 is still worth 0.25 cent/litre. For the figures you used at current base price the difference in milk price is 4.8 cent on every litre produced. Over €20000 on every 500000 litres. This includes a protein bonus of .44 cent for every .1% protein is above the coop average. Last year coop average protein was 3.47. Not sure are protein bonuses paid in other coops.

kowtow · 13-07-2016 11:50PM

freedominacup wrote:

The base grazing platforms are similar size and share a long boundary. .

In that case I'll be betting on the herd with the longer necks.

freedominacup · 13-07-2016 11:56PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Would ye listen to yourselves!!...you're almost saying that Hols are better.

Lameness, longevity, fertility etc...:)

I'm not picking on your post dawg there have been several trying to hold their own mirror up to my posts and trying to "drill down" into the figures I posted looking for evidence to support their own views.

What I took out of it is that so far there's little to choose between the two. I stood my "system" up against a guy who I consider to be a very good farmer where there was no hiding behind variables like farm size, location, climate or soil type to try to explain away defecits in my performance and my "system" stood the comparison. The advisor did say that our herd was outperforming it's potential according to it's ebi rating which would say our management is good. As another poster used to say the nut behind the wheel is the most important part in the machine. Our neighbour is no slouch either. He's well outperforming the national average even the xbred average across most metrics while expanding at a serious rate. There's nothing to see here in relation to proving either side of the debate.

kowtow · 14-07-2016 12:04AM

freedominacup wrote:

There's nothing to see here in relation to proving either side of the debate.

If either land or ration were 25% more or less expensive what would things look like?

whelan2 · 14-07-2016 06:22AM

Autumn calvers will be calving outside 70% in calf to beef bulls, these calves will be sold. Would I need to vaccinate all them with rotavec or chance it and just do those in calf to fr , or do none of them. Expensive stuff, but also expensive if things go wrong?

Dawggone · 14-07-2016 06:46AM

kowtow wrote: »

If either land or ration were 25% more or less expensive what would things look like?

Very good question.

Dawggone · 14-07-2016 06:48AM

whelan2 wrote: »

Autumn calvers will be calving outside 70% in calf to beef bulls, these calves will be sold. Would I need to vaccinate all them with rotavec or chance it and just do those in calf to fr , or do none of them. Expensive stuff, but also expensive if things go wrong?

I wouldn't skimp on rotavec unless calves will remain outdoors until sold.

Dawggone · 14-07-2016 07:12AM

freedominacup wrote: »

I'm not picking on your post dawg there have been several trying to hold their own mirror up to my posts and trying to "drill down" into the figures I posted looking for evidence to support their own views.

What I took out of it is that so far there's little to choose between the two. I stood my "system" up against a guy who I consider to be a very good farmer where there was no hiding behind variables like farm size, location, climate or soil type to try to explain away defecits in my performance and my "system" stood the comparison. The advisor did say that our herd was outperforming it's potential according to it's ebi rating which would say our management is good. As another poster used to say the nut behind the wheel is the most important part in the machine. Our neighbour is no slouch either. He's well outperforming the national average even the xbred average across most metrics while expanding at a serious rate. There's nothing to see here in relation to proving either side of the debate.

+1.
I was only exposing the one sidedness of the replies/queries.

For Teagasc etc it is easier to trot out a formula of xbreds and ebi, and make one size fit all. Nothing wrong with that.

If you take your system to 400/500 cows would it match up to your neighbors at similar numbers?
I think for the limited size land base farmers, hols probably best way of expanding/maxing prod. If unlimited access to land then xbreds.

whelan2 · 14-07-2016 09:34AM

Dawggone wrote: »

I wouldn't skimp on rotavec unless calves will remain outdoors until sold.

If the weather is right they will be out until sold

jaymla627 · 14-07-2016 09:38AM

yewtree wrote: »

Not sure what your getting at here, with our coop (Aurivo) a .1% increase in buffer fat above base at 3.6 is still worth 0.25 cent/litre. For the figures you used at current base price the difference in milk price is 4.8 cent on every litre produced. Over €20000 on every 500000 litres. This includes a protein bonus of .44 cent for every .1% protein is above the coop average. Last year coop average protein was 3.47. Not sure are protein bonuses paid in other coops.

Taking glanbias base price at the minute when you compare 4.8% bf to 4%bf theirs a 1.64 cent difference when milk was at the lofty heights of 38 cent their would of been over a 3 cent difference, if we look at pr at the minute when you compare 3.8pr to 3.5pr their is a 1.46 cent difference at 38 cent their would around 2.7 cent difference.....
Basically high solids cows with massive bf are handicapped by nearly 3 cent a litre when milk price is in the low 20's compared to say high 30's if you also factor in glanbia paying out the Co-op supports on litres and not solids the holstein would be coming out with 40-50 euro extra this year aswell, the ratio in glanbia is a kilo of bf is worth 43% of the value of kilo of protein

Dawggone · 14-07-2016 10:44AM

whelan2 wrote: »

If the weather is right they will be out until sold

Should be grand.

jaymla627 · 14-07-2016 10:53AM

whelan2 wrote: »

Autumn calvers will be calving outside 70% in calf to beef bulls, these calves will be sold. Would I need to vaccinate all them with rotavec or chance it and just do those in calf to fr , or do none of them. Expensive stuff, but also expensive if things go wrong?

Was serious problems with rota virus in herds this spring even ones that where vaccinating wouldn't chance it personally, got it here last spring even though all cows where vaccinated and calves fed rotavec milk for a month after birth, lost no calves but I'd say only for the fact I had vaccinated it saved me.
Would of had serious losses if calves had no immunity built up before it hit them when it did

blackdog1 · 14-07-2016 12:34PM

jaymla627 wrote:

Was serious problems with rota virus in herds this spring even ones that where vaccinating wouldn't chance it personally, got it here last spring even though all cows where vaccinated and calves fed rotavec milk for a month after birth, lost no calves but I'd say only for the fact I had vaccinated it saved me. Would of had serious losses if calves had no immunity built up before it hit them when it did

Do you have problems with birds like magpies going into your sheds where the calves are?. Had the same problem in a brand new calf shed and bloody magpies were the cause. Put up netting and disenfected and problem eased considerably

blackdog1 · 14-07-2016 12:36PM

freedominacup wrote:

I'm not picking on your post dawg there have been several trying to hold their own mirror up to my posts and trying to "drill down" into the figures I posted looking for evidence to support their own views.

Think all that your post proves is what I've been saying for years. Management is 90% of good herd performance EBI has very little to do with it.x breeds and holstein, very little difference in profit when managed well.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 14-07-2016 01:39PM

I got a few bloods done on cows not showing heat a bit before I went on hols and I thought I might fire up a few of the results.

Magnesium 19mg/l range 18-30
Cobalt 0.7ug/l range 1-100
Iodine 0.06mg/l range 0.1-0.4
Copper 0.87mg/l range 0.5-1.5
Molybdenum 8.0ug/l range 5-50
Selenium 31ug/l range 70-200

The rest were all mid range and not a concern atm. The copper and molybdenum was a surprise as I expected low copper and high molybdenum but that will soon change if I start liming this back end. Magnesium was surprisingly high also. Cobalt was interesting from a sheep point of view but little concern for dairying?

Iodine and selenium, though:eek:

Supplements will have to happen soon but I'm surprised the cows actually went in-calf at all:pac:

I'm thinking of adding through water as the mix can be changed easily enough to cater for increasing copper etc and the labour needed for minerals will go to 0 as there will be no boluses or pour-ons or drycow minerals needed.

Any thoughts?

mahoney_j · 14-07-2016 01:47PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I got a few bloods done on cows not showing heat a bit before I went on hols and I thought I might fire up a few of the results.

Magnesium 19mg/l range 18-30
Cobalt 0.7ug/l range 1-100
Iodine 0.06mg/l range 0.1-0.4
Copper 0.87mg/l range 0.5-1.5
Molybdenum 8.0ug/l range 5-50
Selenium 31ug/l range 70-200

The rest were all mid range and not a concern atm. The copper and molybdenum was a surprise as I expected low copper and high molybdenum but that will soon change if I start liming this back end. Magnesium was surprisingly high also. Cobalt was interesting from a sheep point of view but little concern for dairying?

Iodine and selenium, though:eek:

Supplements will have to happen soon but I'm surprised the cows actually went in-calf at all:pac:

I'm thinking of adding through water as the mix can be changed easily enough to cater for increasing copper etc and the labour needed for minerals will go to 0 as there will be no boluses or pour-ons or drycow minerals needed.

Any thoughts?

Contact Mayo healthcare ,they have an excellent programme that involves routine bloods at various times during year and boluses .minerals through water or mineral licks are very hot and miss .at least with bonus every ainmal gets an equal allowance

whelan2 · 14-07-2016 01:48PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I got a few bloods done on cows not showing heat a bit before I went on hols and I thought I might fire up a few of the results.

Magnesium 19mg/l range 18-30
Cobalt 0.7ug/l range 1-100
Iodine 0.06mg/l range 0.1-0.4
Copper 0.87mg/l range 0.5-1.5
Molybdenum 8.0ug/l range 5-50
Selenium 31ug/l range 70-200

The rest were all mid range and not a concern atm. The copper and molybdenum was a surprise as I expected low copper and high molybdenum but that will soon change if I start liming this back end. Magnesium was surprisingly high also. Cobalt was interesting from a sheep point of view but little concern for dairying?

Iodine and selenium, though:eek:

Supplements will have to happen soon but I'm surprised the cows actually went in-calf at all:pac:

I'm thinking of adding through water as the mix can be changed easily enough to cater for increasing copper etc and the labour needed for minerals will go to 0 as there will be no boluses or pour-ons or drycow minerals needed.

Any thoughts?

What are your calves like after being born? Would lack of iodine mean calf mortality, I put iodine in the water here for dry cows

blackdog1 · 14-07-2016 03:36PM

I had problems with cows getting womb infections after calving even though they cleaned.used the best of minerals still didn't improve until iodine tablets in the water. I bolus cows at dry off now and iodine in dry cows water. Using cosecure I. Think it has increased iodine in it.

jaymla627 · 14-07-2016 03:36PM

blackdog1 wrote: »

Do you have problems with birds like magpies going into your sheds where the calves are?. Had the same problem in a brand new calf shed and bloody magpies were the cause. Put up netting and disenfected and problem eased considerably

New shed too and wasn't any birds....problems started about 10 days after they where switched onto milk powder, any calves born after the outbreak where left on rotavec milk till weaning and never got a scour and where reared in same shed....

blackdog1 · 14-07-2016 03:38PM

blackdog1 wrote:

I had problems with cows getting womb infections after calving even though they cleaned.used the best of minerals still didn't improve until iodine tablets in the water. I bolus cows at dry off now and iodine in dry cows water. Using copisure I. Think it has increased iodine in it.

jaymla627 wrote:

New shed too and wasn't any birds....problems started about 10 days after they where switched onto milk powder, any calves born after the outbreak where left on rotavec milk till weaning and never got a scour and where reared in same shed....

Did you use old feeders? Hard to kill a virus.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 14-07-2016 09:05PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Contact Mayo healthcare ,they have an excellent programme that involves routine bloods at various times during year and boluses .minerals through water or mineral licks are very hot and miss .at least with bonus every ainmal gets an equal allowance

blackdog1 wrote: »

I had problems with cows getting womb infections after calving even though they cleaned.used the best of minerals still didn't improve until iodine tablets in the water. I bolus cows at dry off now and iodine in dry cows water. Using cosecure I. Think it has increased iodine in it.

The labour at least twice a year and stress on the cows going through the crush after a couple of rounds of TB testing already is putting me off boluses.

I've used them the last few years with OK results but I would have to use them with some other mineral supplement anyway which would mean even more handling so it's not appealing to me. Plus, I'm not getting any younger and help is getting hard to find again this last few months.

whelan2 wrote: »

What are your calves like after being born? Would lack of iodine mean calf mortality, I put iodine in the water here for dry cows

No problems with calves tbh, a few more retained cleanings than I would like ideally but nothing major that I could say 'there, that's caused by X'.

It's the scanned cows aborting/reabsorbing embryos is the thing that kind of concerns me. Cows scanned 4-5 months in-calf showing up not in-calf and no sign of abortion or coming into heat is a bit of a problem with 5-6 every year across all ages and breeds. Nothing in lab tests showing up unless they have fought the infection off at that stage.

awaywithyou · 14-07-2016 10:47PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I got a few bloods done on cows not showing heat a bit before I went on hols and I thought I might fire up a few of the results.

Magnesium 19mg/l range 18-30
Cobalt 0.7ug/l range 1-100
Iodine 0.06mg/l range 0.1-0.4
Copper 0.87mg/l range 0.5-1.5
Molybdenum 8.0ug/l range 5-50
Selenium 31ug/l range 70-200

The rest were all mid range and not a concern atm. The copper and molybdenum was a surprise as I expected low copper and high molybdenum but that will soon change if I start liming this back end. Magnesium was surprisingly high also. Cobalt was interesting from a sheep point of view but little concern for dairying?

Iodine and selenium, though:eek:

Supplements will have to happen soon but I'm surprised the cows actually went in-calf at all:pac:

I'm thinking of adding through water as the mix can be changed easily enough to cater for increasing copper etc and the labour needed for minerals will go to 0 as there will be no boluses or pour-ons or drycow minerals needed.

Any thoughts?

Bolus bolus bolus!!

I would bolus them with a mineral bolus. They are a mighty job..... Get ted to give you a hand doing it..... Money well spent..... had a cow calve today.... Twins.... She got her two boluses at dry dry off.... Two calves are perfect.. Seriously lively..... Cow cleaned perfect.... What more do ya want?!

carrollsno1 · 14-07-2016 11:22PM

Worked on a farm before where iodine deficiency was a problem they managed it by teat dipping the milking cows maybe you could change to a iodine based dip to help with that

Base price · 15-07-2016 12:25AM

awaywithyou wrote: »

Bolus bolus bolus!!

I would bolus them with a mineral bolus. They are a mighty job..... Get ted to give you a hand doing it..... Money well spent..... had a cow calve today.... Twins.... She got her two boluses at dry dry off.... Two calves are perfect.. Seriously lively..... Cow cleaned perfect.... What more do ya want?!

+1000 with the caviate that other than helping my deceased Uncle with his small herd of dairy cows I know feck all about milkers other than a bit about feeding/finishing dry cows.
We administer boluses to calves, weanlings, cattle (bullocks/bulls) and dry (dairy cull) cows. So far I have not had a issue with their performance other than a slight copper deficiency which is not unusual in this area.

C0N0R · 15-07-2016 06:08PM

Glanbia online shop 20% off until midnight, might be of use to some of you

OverRide · 15-07-2016 06:13PM

C0N0R wrote: »

Glanbia online shop 20% off until midnight, might be of use to some of you

Doubt it,considering their normal prices are that and more above the competition

whelan2 · 15-07-2016 06:17PM

OverRide wrote: »

Doubt it,considering their normal prices are that and more above the competition

Cant afford to buy anything, have to put shoes on the childer

Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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