Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

yewtree · 11-07-2016 09:55PM

trixi2011 wrote: »

anyone dose 1st lactation heifers for worms ? have heifers from 2 farms in the herd one group look going well while the other group lacking milk and condition not as good. will do a dung sample this week just wondering has anyone done anything about worms

Did the whole herd two weeks ago, a lot of coughing and a few heifers slack on milk. Coughing has nearly all stopped but the heifers havnt picked up on milk.

Dung sampled aswell came back negative for worms. Vet said it might not pick up worms at larvae stage so safer to do whole herd. We seem to have an ongoing issue with it. Used Eprinex cost €3.20 a cow

whelan2 · 11-07-2016 09:55PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I had that problem last week before we headed off on holidays. The connections on the fencer and earth and wire had corroded so I had to replace both after a day scratching my head trying to figure it out.

Then went spreading in a hurry and never checked the pins on the spreader like I usually do and it duly came off and warped the driveshaft on the spreader. Must get parts tomorrow and get sorted for a dept TB test on Wednesday.

It's good to be back :pac:

There is a shock in the fencer and at first field when we connect handle on for the rest of the place there's no shock. All was good here when we went away apart from randy bull breaking out again. Good luck in test

OverRide · 11-07-2016 09:58PM

Dawggone wrote: »

Lol.
Jezus wept!

Children's allowance?? :)

Why the hell would anyone factor that in just to turn more grass to milk that nobody wants? Funny old world...

Because Bergin and Siobhan says so!
I mean if we didn't do what we do 30 yrs ago,they'd be drawing the dole

simx · 11-07-2016 10:21PM

yewtree wrote: »

Did the whole herd two weeks ago, a lot of coughing and a few heifers slack on milk. Coughing has nearly all stopped but the heifers havnt picked up on milk.

Dung sampled aswell came back negative for worms. Vet said it might not pick up worms at larvae stage so safer to do whole herd. We seem to have an ongoing issue with it. Used Eprinex cost €3.20 a cow

was going to do this evening but started lashing before milking, did them all about 6/7 weeks ago

whelan2 · 11-07-2016 10:24PM

yewtree wrote: »

Did the whole herd two weeks ago, a lot of coughing and a few heifers slack on milk. Coughing has nearly all stopped but the heifers havnt picked up on milk.

Dung sampled aswell came back negative for worms. Vet said it might not pick up worms at larvae stage so safer to do whole herd. We seem to have an ongoing issue with it. Used Eprinex cost €3.20 a cow

DO you do for ibr?

yewtree · 11-07-2016 10:31PM

whelan2 wrote: »

DO you do for ibr?

Yes everything done month before start of breeding. The vet took bloods off a few of the heifers that weren't performing well last week, I don't have results yet. Will have to wait and see if that shows anything else

Timmaay · 11-07-2016 11:31PM

Dawggone wrote: »

You've a degree in engineering or something? Can you earn more in dairy farming than a 40/50hr week in your profession?

I definely could potentially earn alot more at the engineering. In particular if I took my 15k a yr tax free long term farm lease and used it to offset tax on my off farm income. But the grass isn't always greener, I certainly don't want any average engineering job where I could well just be pushing paper (doing up specs on drawings, reports etc etc), have a 3hr round trip commute, back into the rat race etc. Suits me to be at home also for the minute as my folks have had their fair share of health issues the last while also.

I've said this several times on this forum before tho, I don't see myself being a full time dairyfarmer for more than 10yrs, I will get bored, and there is more to life. However meanwhile tipping on towards 130cows does make sense, with my only necessary capital ex being winter accommodation, which will cost me max 3k/yr or 0.4c/l over 10yrs. The only question I have left is how to plan my exit ha, if I find a suitable person to work with I'd happily build up a partnership and eventually become a silent partner. I could equally so expand away with them if opportunities that I cannot refuse come my way, but I know for one that going anything above the likes of 130cows without some sort of business partner would be madness and very risky on my behalf (aka labour issues).

Timmaay · 11-07-2016 11:46PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's just a symptom of a massive problem where all types of figures are cobbled together to try and show that theirs great money to be made at all this dairy lark.....
Most telling piece of paper I seen was a cashflow planner from Glanbia recently that had a segment especially for farm assit payments as part of income it's laughable things are going this way

Reminds me of the DG meeting we had last yr, afew guest speakers from one of the banks were in, talking about borrowing etc. They presented an example if a typical 100cow farmer going to the likes of 140cows, and what the banks would need, 5yr plan, icbf report etc etc. Anyways in the sample 5yr plan they had included the full household budget, including the wife's schoolteacher income!!! That was basically totally subsidizing the whole expansion plan, but the banks didn't seem to see any issue at all with it! It raised several questions from all of us needless to say!

blackdog1 · 11-07-2016 11:55PM

yewtree wrote:

Dung sampled aswell came back negative for worms. Vet said it might not pick up worms at larvae stage so safer to do whole herd. We seem to have an ongoing issue with it. Used Eprinex cost â‚¬3.20 a cow

The problem with eprinex is it only kills adults so if they were in larvae stage it wouldn't effect them. Are you using ibr live or dead?. Also had a cow with acidosis and she was back in her milk a good bit. Spotted her through out green clumps when cudding.

yewtree · 12-07-2016 12:13AM

blackdog1 wrote: »

The problem with eprinex is it only kills adults so if they were in larvae stage it wouldn't effect them. Are you using ibr live or dead?. Also had a cow with acidosis and she was back in her milk a good bit. Spotted her through out green clumps when cudding.

We use the live vaccine, had the vet check cows. Stomach was ok when vet checked them so doubt it was acidosis, might be something viral will post up blood results if they show anything

kowtow · 12-07-2016 01:05AM

Timmaay wrote:

Reminds me of the DG meeting we had last yr, afew guest speakers from one of the banks were in, talking about borrowing etc. They presented an example if a typical 100cow farmer going to the likes of 140cows, and what the banks would need, 5yr plan, icbf report etc etc. Anyways in the sample 5yr plan they had included the full household budget, including the wife's schoolteacher income!!! That was basically totally subsidizing the whole expansion plan, but the banks didn't seem to see any issue at all with it! It raised several questions from all of us needless to say!

Nowadays banks are all about capacity to repay... which broadly speaking is future income. To a traditional banker, this is nonsense .. lending against income is for doorstep lenders (or specialised investment bankers).. the high street and head office bank is designed to lend against security.

Tragically for banks, they've pretty much run out of security to lend against, having bid residential property up to ridiculous loan to values. Once the value of household debt gets close to that of the house all you can lend against is all the borrowers earnings for ever.

They dress this up as capacity to repay and present it as protection for the borrower... responsible lending. Where farmers are concerned this gives them a big problem because the equity is there and too tempting to resist but the farming income would barely justify it.

So they lend against the security and accept almost any form of household income to justify capacity to repay.

whelan2 · 12-07-2016 06:05PM

We are getting a new local school, they will be knocking the old one soon and the guys asked do I want the old building, all glass and woodwork will be removed and it will be crushed, what would this be like for cow roadways?

Water John · 12-07-2016 07:15PM

It should be fine. It makes things easy for the builders. Otherwise they would need planning permission. Usually that relates to improving land, by stripping it back, raising it and covering back.
They should nearly pay you to take it.

freedominacup · 12-07-2016 11:01PM

whelan2 wrote: »

We are getting a new local school, they will be knocking the old one soon and the guys asked do I want the old building, all glass and woodwork will be removed and it will be crushed, what would this be like for cow roadways?

Make sure they have written permission from the county council to do this. You don't want to end up footing the bill to remove this material from your farm and dispose of it in a registered dump down the line.

freedominacup · 12-07-2016 11:27PM

We had a very interesting dg meeting today with part two tomorrow. My discussion group went to our next door neighbours today, his group are coming to our place tomorrow. We got back into milk around the same time as they started. We went the ho route they went xbred. Our headline kgs of solids production was almost identical. Just around €2000 in value between them. He's running around 25% more cows than us but our conc bill is 7k higher. He's renting ground for extra numbers. It'll be a good discussion tomorrow when we've both had a chance to go over the figures over night. Our ebi average at 104 was causing the advisor some discomfort as apparently according to this much vaunted index our cows simply couldn't be selling this much solids. All profuction figures for comparison come from icbf.

Edit. They only started dairying with no history in the enterprise around 2011. Sold out a substantial pedigree suckler herd. Very good grassland farmers, very good husbandry. Two different ways of skinning a cat with all of the variables relating to farm size, location, and soil type taken out of the equation as far as is possible.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 13-07-2016 05:30PM

Dept herd test just over. Reading Saturday.

We would have finished earlier bar a suckler and her calf decided they didn't believe in open gates and walking downhill especially together at one time.

I love when culls pick themselves.

Waffletraktor · 13-07-2016 07:00PM

freedominacup wrote: »

We had a very interesting dg meeting today with part two tomorrow. My discussion group went to our next door neighbours today, his group are coming to our place tomorrow. We got back into milk around the same time as they started. We went the ho route they went xbred. Our headline kgs of solids production was almost identical. Just around €2000 in value between them. He's running around 25% more cows than us but our conc bill is 7k higher. He's renting ground for extra numbers. It'll be a good discussion tomorrow when we've both had a chance to go over the figures over night. Our ebi average at 104 was causing the advisor some discomfort as apparently according to this much vaunted index our cows simply couldn't be selling this much solids. All profuction figures for comparison come from icbf.

Edit. They only started dairying with no history in the enterprise around 2011. Sold out a substantial pedigree suckler herd. Very good grassland farmers, very good husbandry. Two different ways of skinning a cat with all of the variables relating to farm size, location, and soil type taken out of the equation as far as is possible.

Who is scratching their head this pm then?

freedominacup · 13-07-2016 07:16PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Who is scratching their head this pm then?

The consensus was there's no directives only guidlines. So little to choose between the two systems on last years figures that it was within the margin of error. Both farmers happy with their systems, both yielding similar returns. It will be interesting to revisit in a few years when rapid expansion has slowed and systems have bedded in to see how the returns stack up at that point. Not a hint of the acrimony that these discussions seem to bring at other times. There shouldn't be any at any rate. We've always gotten on well why would we have words over cow breeds?

Edit; The figures didn't get too much airing today. Teagasc facilitator didn't really want to go there. Some talk about cull/calf values against fertility costs. Ho are not as fertile, well ours aren't, as the x bred and this has a cost. It is definitely countered to a fair degree by stock sales but we didn't get into it much.

yewtree · 13-07-2016 07:52PM

freedominacup wrote: »

The consensus was there's no directives only guidlines. So little to choose between the two systems on last years figures that it was within the margin of error. Both farmers happy with their systems, both yielding similar returns. It will be interesting to revisit in a few years when rapid expansion has slowed and systems have bedded in to see how the returns stack up at that point. Not a hint of the acrimony that these discussions seem to bring at other times. There shouldn't be any at any rate. We've always gotten on well why would we have words over cow breeds?

Edit; The figures didn't get too much airing today. Teagasc facilitator didn't really want to go there. Some talk about cull/calf values against fertility costs. Ho are not as fertile, well ours aren't, as the x bred and this has a cost. It is definitely countered to a fair degree by stock sales but we didn't get into it much.

Was output/ha (milk solids) similar between the two systems? And was there any difference in stocking rate? If you don't want to put group info up I understand.

freedominacup · 13-07-2016 07:59PM

yewtree wrote: »

Was output/ha (milk solids) similar between the two systems? And was there any difference in stocking rate? If you don't want to put group info up I understand.

Our sr was higher and therefore ms/ha was higher but they took on ground last year which was only filled this year. This is why it would be very interesting to go back when the systems are more bedded in. The base grazing platforms are similar size and share a long boundary. It'll be hard to compare the two systems with fewer variables anywhere else.

blackdog1 · 13-07-2016 07:59PM

freedominacup wrote:

We had a very interesting dg meeting today with part two tomorrow. My discussion group went to our next door neighbours today, his group are coming to our place tomorrow. We got back into milk around the same time as they started. We went the ho route they went xbred. Our headline kgs of solids production was almost identical. Just around â‚¬2000 in value between them. He's running around 25% more cows than us but our conc bill is 7k higher. He's renting ground for extra numbers. It'll be a good discussion tomorrow when we've both had a chance to go over the figures over night. Our ebi average at 104 was causing the advisor some discomfort as apparently according to this much vaunted index our cows simply couldn't be selling this much solids. All profuction figures for comparison come from icbf.

So your basically producing the same amount of milk with 25% less cows but feeding more concentrate?. Will be interesting tomorrow when you discuss things. I wonder which system is more labour intensive? .

freedominacup · 13-07-2016 08:04PM

blackdog1 wrote: »

So your basically producing the same amount of milk with 25% less cows but feeding more concentrate?. Will be interesting tomorrow when you discuss things. I wonder which system is more labour intensive? .

Tomorrow has come and gone. How would you measure labour intensity? Per cow or per litre/kg ms? Barley cheaper than silage from rented ground this harvest according to figures I did with advisor on Mon before meeting and confirmed today during meeting.

Waffletraktor · 13-07-2016 08:13PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Barley cheaper than silage from rented ground this harvest according to figures I did with advisor on Mon before meeting and confirmed today during meeting.

Hope it isnt fusarium filled shyte like we are finding

:rolleyes:. Pure luch of the draw if got caught flowering in a shower even with decent rates of proline.

yewtree · 13-07-2016 08:18PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Our sr was higher and therefore ms/ha was higher but they took on ground last year which was only filled this year. This is why it would be very interesting to go back when the systems are more bedded in. The base grazing platforms are similar size and share a long boundary. It'll be hard to compare the two systems with fewer variables anywhere else.

Ya a really interesting comparison, fair play for putting it up. Will the two farms settle at similar stocking rate? Would the higher production/cow allow you to carry a lower stocking rate while still achieving similar ha production? Lower stocking rate would reduce the periods farm would be in feed deficit

jaymla627 · 13-07-2016 08:26PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Our sr was higher and therefore ms/ha was higher but they took on ground last year which was only filled this year. This is why it would be very interesting to go back when the systems are more bedded in. The base grazing platforms are similar size and share a long boundary. It'll be hard to compare the two systems with fewer variables anywhere else.

Any mention of how the crossbred will be seriously losing out in terms of solids make - up in a low price year like now, with bf worth so little, the make - up of a high production hols herd will be very similar in terms of ratios of bf to pr herd average here last year was 4%bf 3.5pr, a crossbred herd would be far more spaced usually say around 4.9bf 3.8pr......

blackdog1 · 13-07-2016 09:03PM

freedominacup wrote:

Tomorrow has come and gone. How would you measure labour intensity? Per cow or per litre/kg ms? Barley cheaper than silage from rented ground this harvest according to figures I did with advisor on Mon before meeting and confirmed today during meeting.

Well if your milking 100 cows and he's on 125 that's an increase in milking time plus savings in teat spray etc. Also less cows to calve and calves to feed. Big difference if your a one man show. Think people focus too much on profit sometimes and lose sight of quality of life.

Brown Podzol · 13-07-2016 09:30PM

The other two big variables are 25% more housing and milking capacity and 25% more nitrates. Replacement no's could be the same if half decent fertility in the hols.

jaymla627 · 13-07-2016 09:54PM

Brown Podzol wrote: »

The other two big variables are 25% more housing and milking capacity and 25% more nitrates. Replacement no's could be the same if half decent fertility in the hols.

Dosing/vaccines/ vet fees would be a nice wedge too, vaccinate for everything here and when rotavec/halocur to calves is added in nearly works out at 40 euro a cow

Dawggone · 13-07-2016 09:57PM

Would ye listen to yourselves!!...you're almost saying that Hols are better.

Lameness, longevity, fertility etc...:)

Dawggone · 13-07-2016 10:11PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Hope it isnt fusarium filled shyte like we are finding :rolleyes:. Pure luch of the draw if got caught flowering in a shower even with decent rates of proline.

Off topic. Got full results for malting (winter) barley harvest. Average across all acres 1.922tons and nothing made malt. This was spring malting varities planted in Nov/Dec. Shyte. Looks like a large chunk of French malting barley is to be dumped into feed.

Tucking into wheat Atm and quality is surprisingly good. First reports are pr 14.7% with 76kph. No yields as weighbridge receipts need proper accounting. Drivers reckon circa 3.25ton acre.

Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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