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Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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  • #632
    Macca07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Macca07


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    yeah i think it was that one , but there was also another documentary made around the same time of which the makers refused to let gemma use Footage of, i think it is the one that she uses screenshots of instead in her documentary.

    I watched them all at the time not knowing then what I believe now and would love to see them again with a different view this time.

    but that one scene I described earlier did strike me as very odd, I Thought maybe he was just too traumatised to speak about it at the time despite it being 30 years on .

    One quote from the above site:

    "Today, 30 years later, Ann Snr. still pleads for any information on what happened to her daughter. When asked if finding out what happened to Mary could destroy her family, Ann says she would still want to know."

    Her tune has changed in the last couple of years though...


  • #633
    Mrs cockett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭Mrs cockett


    Heres a thing I wonder about, Why did Mary leave off playing with her siblings and cousins and follow her uncle who she would not even have known that well


  • #634
    Craicho5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 ✭Craicho5


    Heartbreaking


  • #635
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    Mrs cockett wrote: »
    Heres a thing I wonder about, Why did Mary leave off playing with her siblings and cousins and follow her uncle who she would not even have known that well
    For a bag of Taytos perhaps


  • #636
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    Michael O Toole wrote: »
    Give him a chance. Read the story. He reported it the next day. Says cops ignored him. Made a fresh statement 15 years ago. Never wavered when I spoke to him. May not be right, I have no clue. But his story deserves to be told - and not dismissed. Thanks.

    Was he one of the anglers that answered "no" to the mothers shouting
    "have you seen a child?" as alleged by Gemma O doherty? here;

    http://www.irishtv.ie/donegal-matters-93
    about 5mins in


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  • #637
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Did the guards not report that all seen cars in the vicinity were accounted for ...... I think in relation to a stranger abduction theory.

    So I expect they identified, at the time, the car the angler saw.


  • #638
    StevieNicksFan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 ✭✭StevieNicksFan


    I thought it was ridiculous the claim made by Marys mother and uncle that she headed off on foot to Beleek to get a toy. Seriously? She was 6 years old. How would she even know the direction to go, seeing as she didnt visit the area often. No sightings of a young child along that road either - someone would have seen a child walking seeing as there was heavy customs and army personnel on that road as the troubles were at its height. Very very fishy


  • #639
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    StevieNicksFan wrote: »
    I thought it was ridiculous the claim made by Marys mother and uncle that she headed off on foot to Beleek to get a toy. Seriously? She was 6 years old. How would she even know the direction to go, seeing as she didnt visit the area often. No sightings of a young child along that road either - someone would have seen a child walking seeing as there was heavy customs and army personnel on that road as the troubles were at its height. Very very fishy

    I accepted that as a desperate theory of a mother trying to find an explanation for her daughter's disappearance.


  • #640
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    mikeymouse wrote: »
    Was he one of the anglers that answered "no" to the mothers shouting
    "have you seen a child?" as alleged by Gemma O doherty? here;

    http://www.irishtv.ie/donegal-matters-93
    about 5mins in

    On the day Mary went missing there were three poachers illegally fishing with an otterboard, which is a piece of timber with hooks hanging of it. These guys have eyes at the back of their heads and would have been keeping their eyes out for gardai. They never saw anything that day. It is very unlikely Black was up there. Somebody would have spotted his van.



    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/mary-boyle-a-stolen-child-26259379.html


  • #641
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    evancostello wrote: »
    I have looked again at this documentary and the more you do look at the more you realise that you might be manipulated by the author. I say this from a position that when I first saw it , I was convinced that the two detectives were impeded in their duty by their superiors and that the superiors were corrupt. The first scenario now is completely untrue , one of the detectives now stress that there was NO undue influence from his superiors. The other detective ( Murray) also never states that his supereiors interfered with the investigation, never. He says the sting was taken out of it by the call.The film would have you believe that both detectives were saying the same thing. No ,that was as a result of clever editing and splicing by the author.

    The impression then is that Super put his foot in front of the investigation. You need to look at this , as I can see no such (good) evidence in this film. Infact, none of the Detectives say he did anything wrong. In fact they say the opposite. Am I missing something here.
    Yes he did https://sendvid.com/fg8c71z4 copyright gemma o doherty acknowledged. Murray says " as a result of that phone call certain people weren't allowed to be interviewed"

    Maybe you should watch it again and make any criticism based on fact. I agree that if the film was edited to make Collins look like he said something he didn't it is very sly. But Murray says it straight


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  • #642
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    Going Forward wrote: »
    On the day Mary went missing there were three poachers illegally fishing with an otterboard, which is a piece of timber with hooks hanging of it. These guys have eyes at the back of their heads and would have been keeping their eyes out for gardai. They never saw anything that day. It is very unlikely Black was up there. Somebody would have spotted his van.



    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/mary-boyle-a-stolen-child-26259379.html
    One of them now says he saw a red car just when she went missing and that the garda did not put that in his statement


  • #643
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    So he must have seen"Mary being driven away in a red car" after he was asked by the mother "have you seen a child" and answering no?


  • #644
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    mikeymouse wrote: »
    So he must have seen"Mary being driven away in a red car" after he was asked by the mother "have you seen a child" and answering no?

    No ...... he could have seen a car without seeing a child in it.


  • #645
    evancostello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭evancostello


    I can see that. While Aidan Murray doesn't say anyone told him to back off, the presumption obviously is that someone above him must have told him to do so. Isnt that it.


  • #646
    evancostello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭evancostello


    Here is an interesting quote from Aidan Murray published in the Irish News in 10th November 2012 by Maeve Sheehan.

    “ According to Aidan Murray, who was a detective sergeant when Mary disappeared, there was talk that a politician attempted to intervene, but never any evidence. "I only heard it in garda conferences but I could never prove that," he said. But the one person he believed should have been arrested never was.”

    According to Murray, there was talk that a politician had put in a phone-call on behalf of this individual but nothing more than that. And without a body, detectives were hindered in the scope of the investigation and their inquiries"


  • #647
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    No ...... he could have seen a car without seeing a child in it.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/buzzdotie/status/753349186129625088


  • #648
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    mikeymouse wrote: »
    https://mobile.twitter.com/buzzdotie/status/753349186129625088

    If he could have seen a child; if he could additionally have identified the child he saw; then he could have identified the driver and probably got the number plate of the car.

    From what video I have seen and the attested location of the poachers/anglers, the above was not possible.

    Was he close enough to identify Mary?

    THAT would be an absolute BOMBSHELL ........ and I do not believe it.
    There is no way whatsoever that this 'fact' would not have been public, IMO.

    Even if nobody wanted to mention the owner of the car, they could all speak about her being in a car (red VW Beetle) and positively identified.

    BS IMO.


  • #649
    Cliff Walker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭Cliff Walker


    I'd say the establishment will pin this on Eamonn Cooke and that will be that. Case closed


  • #650
    evancostello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭evancostello


    plots thickens. really incredible twists. I suspect that Mary actually was taken. The last man that saw her was a relative who saw her at 3.45 on the day and he was spotted back at the house at 4.30 This is not enough time to dispose of a body. Dont care how well you know the property. The area around the house up to 10 square miles was scoured, drained and plumbed and nothing.


  • #651
    Cliff Walker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭Cliff Walker


    evancostello wrote: »
    plots thickens. really incredible twists. I suspect that Mary actually was taken. The last man that saw her was a relative who saw her at 3.45 on the day and he was spotted back at the house at 4.30 This is not enough time to dispose of a body. Dont care how well you know the property. The area around the house up to 10 square miles was scoured, drained and plumbed and nothing.
    LMFAO


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  • #652
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    evancostello wrote: »
    Here is an interesting quote from Aidan Murray published in the Irish News in 10th November 2012 by Maeve Sheehan.

    “ According to Aidan Murray, who was a detective sergeant when Mary disappeared, there was talk that a politician attempted to intervene, but never any evidence. "I only heard it in garda conferences but I could never prove that," he said. But the one person he believed should have been arrested never was.”

    According to Murray, there was talk that a politician had put in a phone-call on behalf of this individual but nothing more than that. And without a body, detectives were hindered in the scope of the investigation and their inquiries"
    Irish Independent ?

    That seems a bit different from what he said in the doc,less definite. Why do they say the mainstream media does not cover it.? The link above is from when ann decided to push again for an investigation


  • #653
    jenny smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jenny smith


    mikeymouse wrote: »
    So he must have seen"Mary being driven away in a red car" after he was asked by the mother "have you seen a child" and answering no?
    I was wrong to say same time . He says ten mins before


    Fisherman PJ Coughlan has said he saw a red Volkswagen Beetle speeding away from the area that Mary went missing ten minutes before he saw Mary’s uncle Gerry frantically searching for her.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/i-saw-mary-being-driven-away-in-a-red-car-fisherman-believes-he-saw-mary-boyle-6-being-lifted-34883293.html


  • #654
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    evancostello wrote: »
    plots thickens. really incredible twists. I suspect that Mary actually was taken. The last man that saw her was a relative who saw her at 3.45on the day and he was spotted back at the house at 4.30 This is not enough time to dispose of a body. Dont care how well you know the property. The area around the house up to 10 square miles was scoured, drained and plumbed and nothing.

    Says who??????

    In this video 2pm is (dont know how accurate that is either) mentioned:

    http://www.irishtv.ie/donegal-matters-93

    That enough time, in your opinion?


  • #655
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    evancostello wrote: »
    plots thickens. really incredible twists. I suspect that Mary actually was taken. The last man that saw her was a relative who saw her at 3.45 on the day and he was spotted back at the house at 4.30 This is not enough time to dispose of a body. Dont care how well you know the property. The area around the house up to 10 square miles was scoured, drained and plumbed and nothing.

    and then when asked by the Mother where her daughter was ignored her not once but Twice and he drove away the second time. that adds plenty of time there of unaccountable time

    `I looked out the front door. The rest of the children were playing in a thicket in the front garden, Mary was not there. My brother Gerry was fixing a stone wall in front of the house. I asked him did he see Mary, he didn't answer, he must not have heard me. Ten minutes later I asked did anyone see Mary and Gerry shot off in his car down the road."

    taken from http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mary-boyle-a-stolen-child-26259379.html


    the above which I have a video record of him denying to me the above ever happened from a conversation I had with him a few months ago so one of them is lying .


  • #656
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    can we clarify one thing PJ coughlan (AKA Happy Harry) is one of the poachers, in his original statement to gardai he never mentioned any red Volkswagen , it was only 15 years later he decided to add this information , he said this was the gardai's fault the gardai have not responded and doubt they will

    In various accounts since it has always been reported that both the poachers and a man cutting a tree that day saw NO suspicious cars in this remote area at the tail end of the 70s.

    It seems to be only after the tree cutter died that PJ came forward and changed his statement.

    What id like to know and maybe you can ask PJ this Michael is -did PJ sign his original statement from 1977 in which the gardai make no mention of him seeing a red VW Beetle??

    i commend you for digging around this story and hope the rest fo the media can follow your lead i might find stories such as PJs hard to swallow but any publicity is good publicity and is exactly what is needed so we can find out the truth or urge the powers that be to do so .


  • #657
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    When Gerry came back to the house he said she had followed him earlier to the Cawleys' house and that she turned back. I got into the car and drove along the road in different directions. It was a nightmare.''

    This is different to what Gemma o doherty says at about 5 mins in:
    http://www.irishtv.ie/donegal-matters-93


  • #658
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    CnVnqHdXgAA2J1E.jpg:small


  • #659
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Going Forward wrote: »
    CnVnqHdXgAA2J1E.jpg:small

    can you link me thru DM to this please


  • #660
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    can you link me thru DM to this please

    PM'ed you.


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  • #661
    mikeymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mikeymouse


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Says who??????

    In this video 2pm is (dont know how accurate that is either) mentioned:

    http://www.irishtv.ie/donegal-matters-93

    That enough time, in your opinion?


    From the Independent article;

    At around 3.45pm, she walked behind her uncle towards the Cawleys' house, and when she reached a water-filled patch he told her to turn back. She was last seen, by her uncle Gerry, eating a packet of Tayto crisps. The return trek to her grandparents' farmhouse should have taken no more than five minutes. In the meantime, Mr Gallagher chatted briefly with the Cawleys and returned to the house at 4.30pm.

    a lot of inconsistencies here also,
    or just shoddy journalism

    4.30 pm in Donegal in march ,only about an hour of light left.


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