Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

whilst we are on the subject of superintendent Murray I just remember another thing that struck me as odd from his archive interview on the doc he said on the day Mary went missing it was a cold "Evening" and this was one of the reasons Mary turned back .. yet it was early afternoon was the time she was said to have disappeared

just a small thing i noticed

evancostello wrote: »

I think Collins never altered his position. All he said in the documentary was that there was a call received from a Politician who asked none of a particular family be made suspects. Thats it. He was never asked whether this interfered with investigation or whether there was any cover up by the Senior guards. It was the next Man who said it took the sting out of the investigation. I think thats the scenario. Collins is not saying one thing different now than he said in the documentary. He was not asked the question in the doumentary or indeed maybe he was and the answer just didnt fit.

Yep, film gets edited. If they edited out Collins comments and made it seem he was agreeing pressure was put on, he's right to make an issue of it. People might not agree with him but he has a right to his view.

The commentary after the thread and in the papers was 2 former Gardai allege a cover up, so he's right to be a bit pissed off!

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, film gets edited. If they edited out Collins comments and made it seem he was agreeing pressure was put on, he's right to make an issue of it. People might not agree with him but he has a right to his view.

The commentary after the thread and in the papers was 2 former Gardai allege a cover up, so he's right to be a bit pissed off!

So, why did he mention the phone call at all if he did not think it relevant? Surely, the point of saying anything
about it was to illustrate that someone was attempting to put pressure on the investigating gardaí? Did he follow
it up by saying that they DID question the family members? I don't recollect his doing so.

Wasn't the whole subject of the film the fact that political intervention stymied the investigation, i.e. the main suspect
could not be questioned after the phone call? Didn't Collins know that when he agreed to participate in the film? I
would love to know why he did agree, bearing in mind his present denials.

As I have said earlier in this thread communications between me and Gemma broke down before the documentary was aired and I wasn't privy to anything that was going into it I saw it at the same time as everyone else

I am of the opinion now personally that some clever editing has went on- i may off course be wrong

still no taking away that Collins acknowledges there was a phone call to the station and Murray says he thinks it affected their whole investigation

jenny smith wrote: »

maybe not cold evening but cold day would not surprise me. The 18th of March in fairness

oh I know

the thing I'm getting at is she didn't go missing during the evening

as I said just a small thing

jenny smith wrote: »

if they did gemma is not being honest

I presume Collins saw the film before it was broadcast? If so, why did he
wait until now to say anything about how his statement was presented?

Going Forward wrote: »

Yes, but he's gone much further now by saying that call had nothing to do with the investigation:


Today:
He said that phone call comments emanated from the hearsay of a station orderly, who would not have even been an investigating officer into the Mary Boyle case.

“That phone call had nothing whatsoever to do with the investigation that was going on at that time or subsequently. It was never ever mentioned again,” he

That doesn't tally with what he said in the doc:

In the documentary he said that a phone call was received at Ballyshannon Garda station, by a politician, saying that none of a particular family should be made suspects in Mary's disappearance.

It's at around/just after 31 minutes in.


Either he's saying a phone call about the case was made by a politician looking for preferential treatment for someone or he's saying a phone call was made but it had nothing to do with the case??

He can't be saying both, regardless of anything else.

Does anyone have a transcript of the documentary?

I think what he is saying is the phone call did not affect him or the investigation.

He doesn't dispute the phone call happened, it's the effect of it he does.

It's a difference of interpretation, not facts to me. A transcript would be handy all right.

We know these are only "rumours" of a politician making a call to a Garda Station and asking that either members of a family or a specific member of a family not be questioned in relation to this case. It was not implied by either of the former Gardai in the documentary that there was hard evidence of this, nor did they disclose who received the actual rumoured call or if they knew who received it. So lacking hard physical evidence such as a sworn witness or a recording, it will always be hearsay.

Now I'm not an investigator, but If a politician were to call a particular Garda Station, in order to influence an ongoing case, I would doubt he would speak directly to a receptionist or whatever. It would more likely be a case of a receptionist receiving the initial call, putting him through to a senior officer and then maybe overhearing his conversation with a Senior member of the force and later telling somebody else what they had overheard. The two people actually directly involved are unlikely to ever admit to such a thing, so evidence is never going to obtained, unless the person who overheard where to come forward.

SUMMARY OF WHAT WE KNOW
A little girl was likely murdered near Ballyshannon, and everybody in the documentary seem to believe it was likely by somebody she knew. It is also mentioned that she grew up in the Rosses area of West Donegal, not in the Ballyshannon area where she went missing and her parents apparently didn't visit there very often. Surely the list of people she knew wouldn't be very long, and thus those people could be questioned quickly.

There was a rumour of a politician calling a senior member of Ballyshannon Gardai, seeking to stop certain person or person being questioned, 39 years later and many people directly involved in the case, including former Gardai believe the real suspect was never questioned "as a suspect" and only as a witness. This could suggest the rumour might actually have some substance to it, as why else would they not talk to a potential suspect. Failure to charge a suspect could be due to lack of evidence or witnesses coming forward, but the gardai could still have arrested him for questioning if they felt there was something there.

Why was the suspect not arrested? I would imagine questioning somebody as a witness, is very different to questioning somebody as a suspect. A suspect would probably be probed more aggressively, with detectives seeking to get the truth. It is clear that when questioning got tough for this witness, a superior tapped the detective on the leg, suggesting he ease off. There is no clear reason given as to why the suspect was not actually arrested, and that is why probably why the rumours have since taken hold.

Going Forward wrote: »

I hadn't looked at that.

Seems poorly advised IMO.

I know they feel like their relationship with AGS is completely broken, but this has a danger of them being treated as nuisances or too confrontational going to GSOC about that.

Far better to be less confrontational and issue a statement outlining their concerns about not being kept informed.

well tough for them tbh , this case now is at its most prominent snice it happened and the mob in charge of the gards and the government dept of justice only seem to react when someone is being a nuisance , if they were doing their job right in the first place from day one then no one would have to be confrontational to them

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I get the feeling from the documentary that Mrs Doherty is not being dealt with as the primary contact, and that her mother Mrs Boyle is who the garda contact in the evnt of developments. This would be fine and normal - she is Mary's mother, and glitches like this would not arise except for the estrangement between the two. This estrangement results in an unusual situation for the garda. How to keep both parties on side? Difficult. For all concerned. Emotions naturally run high.

This is the case, the mother -who refuses an inquest and has told them that she will put it in her will that she doesn't want one after she dies- is the official contact to the gardai

Has there been any reason given for why the family are currently so split on this? Why are they estranged?

It seems to me that this split between the Mary's twin sister and her mum is seriously disrupting the communication process between the Government/Gardai and those who made or featured in the documentary.