Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Noxegon · 11-07-2016 01:48PM

L1011 wrote: »

Just shows how pointless Skytrax is - short haul customer care and soft product is probably the worst it has ever been now.

I get the impression that most of these big commercial polls are worthless.

This is drifting off topic a little, but I'd just like to reference the fact that Air Koryo is considered one star. Having flown them they were absolutely fine; I'd go as far as to say that my travel with them was more comfortable than some of my flights on EI.

roundymac · 11-07-2016 01:53PM

What type did you get to fly in with Air Koryo?

Noxegon · 11-07-2016 02:24PM

IL-62M (P-885) PEK-FNJ, then TU-204 (P-632) FNJ-PEK. The scream of the Soloviev engines on the Ilyushin (approximately 3:20 in this clip) was the best thing ever.

Now back to Aer Lingus...

Dardania · 11-07-2016 09:54PM

Noxegon wrote: »

IL-62M (P-885) PEK-FNJ, then TU-204 (P-632) FNJ-PEK. The scream of the Soloviev engines on the Ilyushin (approximately 3:20 in this clip) was the best thing ever.

Now back to Aer Lingus...

Saw a great album on reddit a few months ago about Air Koyro - looked really interesting (wasn't you by any chance?!)

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/43oo6a/flights_on_air_koryo_north_korea_airlines_photo/

ohigg84 · 11-07-2016 11:10PM

Dardania wrote: »

Saw a great album on reddit a few months ago about Air Koyro - looked really interesting (wasn't you by any chance?!)

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/43oo6a/flights_on_air_koryo_north_korea_airlines_photo/

Air Koryo also operates one of the last TU-134B's to roll off the production line , which was in 1984 if I remember correctly?

Noxegon · 12-07-2016 06:03AM

Dardania wrote: »

Saw a great album on reddit a few months ago about Air Koyro - looked really interesting (wasn't you by any chance?!)

No, I did a regular tour and it was pure luck that I got two different equipment types on my flights. Great link though

km991148 · 12-07-2016 11:18AM

Was on EI3221 this morning from Glasgow and was surprised to see a n A320 waiting for us (its been smaller prop planes for a few years now)- is this a return to Jets on this route, or a temporary increase in capacity for the summer?

JCX BXC · 12-07-2016 11:21AM

km991148 wrote: »

Was on EI3221 this morning from Glasgow and was surprised to see a n A320 waiting for us (its been smaller prop planes for a few years now)- is this a return to Jets on this route, or a temporary increase in capacity for the summer?

Temporary, they often sub in A320's when capacity for GLA or EDI rockets up, eg for events.

km991148 · 12-07-2016 11:29AM

Carnacalla wrote: »

Temporary, they often sub in A320's when capacity for GLA or EDI rockets up, eg for events.

Ah cool - not sure how I feel on the difference - the A320s are obv quicker, but the smaller planes seem to have better seats for getting the laptop out to work on.

Plane was only 1/3 full as well.. must be expecting more than thought for the Scottish Open golf.

LXFlyer · 12-07-2016 11:44AM

km991148 wrote: »

Ah cool - not sure how I feel on the difference - the A320s are obv quicker, but the smaller planes seem to have better seats for getting the laptop out to work on.

Plane was only 1/3 full as well.. must be expecting more than thought for the Scottish Open golf.

Perhaps it was full going to Glasgow?

km991148 · 12-07-2016 12:02PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Perhaps it was full going to Glasgow?

ha - of course

- I was up too early for that flight!

Fattes · 12-07-2016 12:35PM

Interesting news from Farnborough, with Virgin taking 12 A350 8 Purchased and 4 long term lease, for their Business routes on the US and for their leisure business in the Caribbean

JCX BXC · 12-07-2016 12:38PM

Fattes wrote: »

Interesting news from Farnborough, with Virgin taking 12 A350 8 Purchased and 4 long term lease, for their Business routes on the US and for their leisure business in the Caribbean

Genuine question, do you think this has some effect on Aer Lingus or is it just a passing comment?

Fattes · 12-07-2016 12:46PM

Carnacalla wrote: »

Genuine question, do you think this has some effect on Aer Lingus or is it just a passing comment?

Aer Lingus, have orders which they are looking like they may not take for A350(900) or that they will be reallocated to IAG (Iberia). EI are looking towards, A320 neo and A330, based on various quotes etc.

Interesting that Virgin see the A350 (1000) for them as the new workhorse of their trans Atlantic fleet, and EI are did and appear to be changing their mind and looking towards other options.

Van.Bosch · 12-07-2016 02:13PM

Fattes wrote: »

Carnacalla wrote: »

Genuine question, do you think this has some effect on Aer Lingus or is it just a passing comment?

Aer Lingus, have orders which they are looking like they may not take for A350(900) or that they will be reallocated to IAG (Iberia). EI are looking towards, A320 neo and A330, based on various quotes etc.

Interesting that Virgin see the A350 (1000) for them as the new workhorse of their trans Atlantic fleet, and EI are did and appear to be changing their mind and looking towards other options.

If EI pass on the A350, I suspect it is more of a case that IAG want them used elsewhere rather than EI deciding they don't want them. There is no way IAG will be giving them up anyway

donvito99 · 12-07-2016 02:37PM

Although initially reluctant to see no A350s for EI (a bigger frame with more seats, better economics), if it means seeing 20+ A330s from Ireland to North America with myriad more destinations and frequencies, I'm all for it.

Fattes · 12-07-2016 03:02PM

donvito99 wrote: »

Although initially reluctant to see no A350s for EI (a bigger frame with more seats, better economics), if it means seeing 20+ A330s from Ireland to North America with myriad more destinations and frequencies, I'm all for it.

To be honest I can't see EI new destinations being groundbreaking, Rumours of Miami being added illustrate the problem, less than a 3 hour drive from OL an existing destination. Newark, Connecticut being more examples of lazy EI planning or lack of vision.

It would be nice to see them look East a little more, in reality they service 15 countries (and another 6 approx seasonal.) Roughly 40 destinations Compared to say Finnair or Norwegian, who are in and around our population size and the difference and diversity of routes is startling . I think Turkey is the furthest east they go!

It would be nice to see EI start to look at alternative markets, and the A350 could help facilitate that.

JCX BXC · 12-07-2016 03:06PM

How can EI compete with the big Middle Eastern airlines with their current level of service?

Fattes · 12-07-2016 03:18PM

Carnacalla wrote: »

How can EI compete with the big Middle Eastern airlines with their current level of service?

How could a little Irish Airline every become one of the largest in the world by passenger numbers! I guess Ryanair might be able to answer that! Direct flights to certain destinations might give them an edge

JCX BXC · 12-07-2016 03:23PM

Fattes wrote: »

How could a little Irish Airline every become one of the largest in the world by passenger numbers! I guess Ryanair might be able to answer that! Direct flights to certain destinations might give them an edge

Completely different circumstances, Ryanair challenged the monopolies by severely undercutting them, Aer Lingus would simply give a completely insuperior service at a similar price. Too many airlines have tried to be the next Ryanair in terms of growth and failed.

Fattes · 12-07-2016 03:34PM

Carnacalla wrote: »

Completely different circumstances, Ryanair challenged the monopolies by severely undercutting them, Aer Lingus would simply give a completely insuperior service at a similar price. Too many airlines have tried to be the next Ryanair in terms of growth and failed.

Who said anything about becoming a Ryanair or using their strategy, it's example that there is a always a new angle at a market or an opportunity. Direct flights cutting out a stop in Dubai. Could be that gap. It could be some other USP. But as an airline it has a huge focus on the US and compared to similar or slightly larger airlines like Finair or Norwegian a more limited destination profile

JCX BXC · 12-07-2016 03:38PM

Fattes wrote: »

Who said anything about becoming a Ryanair or using their strategy, it's example that there is a always a new angle at a market or an opportunity. Direct flights cutting out a stop in Dubai. Could be that gap. It could be some other USP. But as an airline it has a huge focus on the US and compared to similar or slightly larger airlines like Finair or Norwegian a more limited destination profile

So direct flights to Qatar, but who wants to go to Qatar? Qatar is only useful for connection (similar to Dubai and Abu Dhabi), so why would you fly on an Aer Lingus half way to Australia/Eastern Asia when you can fly with a superior Emirates or Etihad?

Edit: I realise now you mean China or similar, suppose that's more useful, but it could result in a massive failure like Dubai back in 2006 ish

Fattes · 12-07-2016 03:51PM

Carnacalla wrote: »

So direct flights to Qatar, but who wants to go to Qatar? Qatar is only useful for connection (similar to Dubai and Abu Dhabi), so why would you fly on an Aer Lingus half way to Australia/Eastern Asia when you can fly with a superior Emirates or Etihad?

Edit: I realise now you mean China or similar, suppose that's more useful, but it could result in a massive failure like Dubai back in 2006 ish

We deal with a number of Chinese TO here they are crying out for one. Other markets too. New USA routes are an easy addition but how many more are really viable?

Would require additions to the fleet to make new East bound routes viable. Frustrating to see narrow view on expansion and fleet requirements rather than progressive aspirational but achievable growth from EI. Quantas for example are looking. At London - Perth direct! there is always a new angle or market for EI to explore

Van.Bosch · 12-07-2016 04:03PM

Fattes wrote: »

Carnacalla wrote: »

So direct flights to Qatar, but who wants to go to Qatar? Qatar is only useful for connection (similar to Dubai and Abu Dhabi), so why would you fly on an Aer Lingus half way to Australia/Eastern Asia when you can fly with a superior Emirates or Etihad?

Edit: I realise now you mean China or similar, suppose that's more useful, but it could result in a massive failure like Dubai back in 2006 ish

We deal with a number of Chinese TO here they are crying out for one. Other markets too. New USA routes are an easy addition but how many more are really viable?

Would require additions to the fleet to make new East bound routes viable. Frustrating to see narrow view on expansion and fleet requirements rather than progressive aspirational but achievable growth from EI. Quantas for example are looking. At London - Perth direct! there is always a new angle or market for EI to explore

EI are not idiots or narrow minded, they have huge amounts of data available to them on pax flows. If they add extra flights west it is because they believe they can make more money that way. You also have to remember the connecting pax, Dublin is on the way to the US from the UK or to Europe from the US but uk pax won't go back on themselves to go to china unless it is dirt cheap

Fattes · 12-07-2016 04:40PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

EI are not idiots or narrow minded, they have huge amounts of data available to them on pax flows. If they add extra flights west it is because they believe they can make more money that way. You also have to remember the connecting pax, Dublin is on the way to the US from the UK or to Europe from the US but uk pax won't go back on themselves to go to china unless it is dirt cheap

But Harsh calling EI "idiots" I certainly didn't. Just go compare their destination map to say Finnair or Norwegian. There is a market there, there is potential there. Not all EI business potential is in North America.

Obviously is only possible with strategic planning and the relevant assets in place

Marcusm · 12-07-2016 04:42PM

Fattes wrote: »

To be honest I can't see EI new destinations being groundbreaking, Rumours of Miami being added illustrate the problem, less than a 3 hour drive from OL an existing destination. Newark, Connecticut being more examples of lazy EI planning or lack of vision.

It would be nice to see them look East a little more, in reality they service 15 countries (and another 6 approx seasonal.) Roughly 40 destinations Compared to say Finnair or Norwegian, who are in and around our population size and the difference and diversity of routes is startling . I think Turkey is the furthest east they go!

It would be nice to see EI start to look at alternative markets, and the A350 could help facilitate that.

I have to say I disagree with your analysis on MIA. It's a completely different market to MCO and opens up a world of one stop connections to the Caribbean and Latin America. Asia is much better served heading eastward through LOndon and the price limitations involved with competition on Etihad and Emirates significantly reduce the revenue opportunities for EI on eastbound routes.

Hartford seems to be mostly a kenly priced route which will utilise 757 capacity.

AGC · 12-07-2016 07:42PM

Ireland is one of a very few(if not the only) European country with no direct route to China.

I think it is China Eastern who were looking at their Beijing-Heathrow route continuing to Dublin after a visa agreement was brought in allowing Chinese nationals with UK visa's visit Ireland.

Brexit might end that

L1011 · 12-07-2016 07:52PM

Fattes wrote: »

But Harsh calling EI "idiots" I certainly didn't. Just go compare their destination map to say Finnair or Norwegian. There is a market there, there is potential there.

Finnair take connections from all over Europe to Asia due to their location. The only places its even vaguely logical to connect to Asia via Dublin from in Europe are in Portugal really. Vastly smaller market.

Its the opposite for North America, for obvious reasons.

Avada · 12-07-2016 10:39PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

EI are not idiots or narrow minded, they have huge amounts of data available to them on pax flows. If they add extra flights west it is because they believe they can make more money that way. You also have to remember the connecting pax, Dublin is on the way to the US from the UK or to Europe from the US but uk pax won't go back on themselves to go to china unless it is dirt cheap

The UK is a big place though. Its easier to get to Dublin from a lot of regions in the UK than to get to Heathrow. Even if you are doubling back, it can be quicker.

Van.Bosch · 12-07-2016 10:47PM

Avada wrote: »

Van.Bosch wrote: »

EI are not idiots or narrow minded, they have huge amounts of data available to them on pax flows. If they add extra flights west it is because they believe they can make more money that way. You also have to remember the connecting pax, Dublin is on the way to the US from the UK or to Europe from the US but uk pax won't go back on themselves to go to china unless it is dirt cheap

The UK is a big place though. Its easier to get to Dublin from a lot of regions in the UK than to get to Heathrow. Even if you are doubling back, it can be quicker.

True enough, but if looking at a huge hub they would need more than UK pax. I think their immediate focus, 2-3 years will be on the US, after that I could see South Africa. China could be an outlier in that it could possibly sustain a direct link itself.

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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