Top Spanish matador Victor Barrio gored to death in arena live on TV

lee_baby_simms · 11-07-2016 10:59AM

weisses wrote: »

In certain circumstances yes ... And bullfighting is one of them

Pamplona the same ...The more injuries the better

Very Morrissey-esque.

Essentially then you're comfortable with the death penalty for animal cruelty?

lee_baby_simms · 11-07-2016 11:00AM

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I personally wouldn't chuckle at the death of a Matador, I just wouldn't mourn or grieve them.

You're just quietly delighted so.

weisses · 11-07-2016 11:02AM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Very Morrissey-esque.

Essentially then you're comfortable with the death penalty for animal cruelty?

I could warm up to that idea yes.

Same goes for murderers, rapists, child molesters etc .... Easy way to get rid of that scum

11-07-2016 11:04AM

weisses wrote: »

I could warm up to that idea yes.

Same goes for murderers, rapists, child molesters etc .... Easy way to get rid of that scum

Dear God.

Someone got a reference to paedophiles in.

Thread is descending into a mess...

BetsyEllen · 11-07-2016 11:05AM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

You're just quietly delighted so.

Not quietly, I'm happy to speak about it.
Have you read all of my comments? Do you understand why I feel that way?

It's not as though he was a man walking down the street, minding his own business and a bull came out of nowhere and viciously attacked him.
If that was the story my first thoughts would be 'Oh my God, that poor man and his poor family - what an awful tragedy'. But those were not the circumstances.
He was paid to cause suffering to animals, how many have died at his hands?
And now he has been killed by an animal that was protecting its own life, there is suddenly an outpour of grief on his behalf?

Do you condone bull fighting?

weisses · 11-07-2016 11:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Thread is descending into a mess...

No that started when you brought in the Angler

loveisdivine · 11-07-2016 11:18AM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

What life would the bull have had without bull fighting?

Truth be known (and something that vegans
don't discuss) is that cattle, pigs and chicken would be virtually extinct if people didn't eat them

Actually at a local vegan meet up I was at recently we discussed it at length. We were all pretty much agreed that most commercial breeds of meat animals are so far removed from how they would have been naturally, excessive growth rates, legs that can't hold they're abnormally large bodies, excessive milk production etc that it would be in the animal's best interest to let commercial breeds die out.

I'm vegan and my personal opinion would be that if it meant no more meat production at all, I would be ok with any currently living farm animals (that can't be cared for in a sanctuary) being culled. If it ends the suffering for good, then it's worth it. But I know a lot of other vegans wouldn't agree with me on this point.

PopePalpatine · 11-07-2016 11:26AM

Is it wrong that I'm wondering if "Manos" (the bull's name) will get a Lamborghini named after him?

smash · 11-07-2016 11:29AM

The bull was called Maños, according to El Mundo, and weighed 529 kilos.

I guess we know what the next Lamborghini will be called now.

lee_baby_simms · 11-07-2016 11:31AM

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Not quietly, I'm happy to speak about it.
Have you read all of my comments? Do you understand why I feel that way?

It's not as though he was a man walking down the street, minding his own business and a bull came out of nowhere and viciously attacked him.
If that was the story my first thoughts would be 'Oh my God, that poor man and his poor family - what an awful tragedy'. But those were not the circumstances.
He was paid to cause suffering to animals, how many have died at his hands?
And now he has been killed by an animal that was protecting its own life, there is suddenly an outpour of grief on his behalf?

Do you condone bull fighting?

No I don't, it's not a binary argument. It's possible to oppose something without going to the opposite extreme. It's one of the reasons we're higher than animals in the food chain.

I find bullfighting to be an outdated, barbaric and medieval practice...rather like this:

weisses wrote: »

I could warm up to that idea yes.

Same goes for murderers, rapists, child molesters etc .... Easy way to get rid of that scum

Wibbs · 11-07-2016 11:33AM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

A human being is always more important than any animal.

I'm no vegan hippie type, but I'd not agree with that. As it stands there are too damned many humans on the planet. Our population growth and consumption isn't sustainable. Animals and plants are going extinct on a weekly basis. Whole ecosystems are being decimated. We're observing one of the largest extinction events in the planet's history and it's down to too many naked great apes around the place. Given the eeny meeny miney mo between the average human mouth breather and an African elephant, or giant panda or whatever it would be a hard choice TBH.

BetsyEllen · 11-07-2016 11:34AM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

No I don't, it's not a binary argument. It's possible to oppose something without going to the opposite extreme. It's one of the reasons we're higher than animals in the food chain.

I find bullfighting to be an outdated, barbaric and medieval practice...rather like this:

Ok. But if you find it a barbaric practice, how can you feel sympathy for somebody who actively took part in it?
I am not trying to pick an argument with you, I am genuinely curious of how you can feel sad at the death of a person that was so cruel, when you have said yourself it's barbaric.

allthedoyles · 11-07-2016 11:36AM

he matador was wearing red , - not such a good idea since the apron was red too .
He was like waving a red rag to a bull .

smash · 11-07-2016 11:40AM

The thing about the debate on the 'sport' is that the Spanish fighting bull is a specific breed, which is bread solely for fighting. To ban bull fighting would in turn make this species extinct.

lee_baby_simms · 11-07-2016 11:44AM

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Ok. But if you find it a barbaric practice, how can you feel sympathy for somebody who actively took part in it?
I am not trying to pick an argument with you, I am genuinely curious of how you can feel sad at the death of a person that was so cruel, when you have said yourself it's barbaric.

Well I feel sorry for his wife and family...

I think what he was doing was despicable but I find celebrating his death a little unsettling.

BetsyEllen · 11-07-2016 11:47AM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Well I feel sorry for his wife and family...

I think what he was doing was despicable but I find celebrating his death a little unsettling.

I'm not celebrating his death at all, I'm just pleased that there is one less person on this earth that takes pleasure in causing harm to animals.
If he has a wife and kids (I've read nothing about him) then I can sympathise with their pain at losing him but not enough to make me feel saddened by his death.

Samaris · 11-07-2016 11:50AM

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Ok. But if you find it a barbaric practice, how can you feel sympathy for somebody who actively took part in it?
I am not trying to pick an argument with you, I am genuinely curious of how you can feel sad at the death of a person that was so cruel, when you have said yourself it's barbaric.

I said much the same as the person you're replying to and yeah, I think the loss of a life is to be regretted, whether or not I agree with his sport*. I doubt he was a particularly bad person, it's an accepted practice over there, even if slowly dying out. I find some of the practices involving animal slaughter in China repugnant, but I wouldn't be pleased at the deaths of a whole bunch of Chinese slaughterhouse workers either!

*I don't, I also find it barbaric and cruel.

smash · 11-07-2016 11:57AM

Samaris wrote: »

I said much the same as the person you're replying to and yeah, I think the loss of a life is to be regretted, whether or not I agree with his sport

The majority of people don't assign a generic value to a life. Some people will care, others wont. The fact that the man participated in a practice that a lot of people despise will mean that the value that people will place on his life will vary greatly so there's no point in anyone arguing about it really. It happened, some will say he deserved it, others wont.

Samaris · 11-07-2016 11:59AM

smash wrote: »

The majority of people don't assign a generic value to a life. Some people will care, others wont. The fact that the man participated in a practice that a lot of people despise will mean that the value that people will place on his life will vary greatly so there's no point in anyone arguing about it really. It happened, some will say he deserved it, others wont.

Oh, true, but when the debate comes up, people may as well put both sides forward!

IvyTheTerrible · 11-07-2016 12:05PM

There is a well-known French song called La Corrida which is sung from the point of view of the bull, I find it very emotional:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1ET6SEtwbc

You can read the translated lyrics here: http://muzikum.eu/en/127-6372-215403/francis-cabrel/la-corrida-english-translation.html

smash · 11-07-2016 12:47PM

Samaris wrote: »

Oh, true, but when the debate comes up, people may as well put both sides forward!

Oh yea, put your side forward by all means but it will be difficult for some people to find sympathy. Personally I feel sorry for his family but not necessarily for him. Bull fighting is a very one sided battle and he lost which is rare, but non the less, he stepped in a ring with an unpredictable animal. If there wasn't the possibility of being mutilated or killed then it wouldn't be called bull fighting, it would just be called bull killing.

old_aussie · 11-07-2016 01:42PM

I have no sympathy for the bull fighter what so ever!

It was an unfair fight in that the matador provoked a wild animal and this time the bull won.

And for those bull runners that got gored, not one bit of sympathy for them either, they took up the challenge and lost.

smash · 11-07-2016 02:39PM

old_aussie wrote: »

It was an unfair fight in that the matador provoked a wild animal and this time the bull won.

It's never a fair fight. Well not for the bull anyway because it's drugged up to the skies. The only way to look at it is to say either the bull was lucky or the matador was unlucky.

BetsyEllen · 11-07-2016 02:43PM

smash wrote: »

It's never a fair fight. Well not for the bull anyway because it's drugged up to the skies. The only way to look at it is to say either the bull was lucky or the matador was unlucky.

Pretty sure the bull was 'destroyed' after the fight anyway, so I would say that no one was lucky in this instance

jmayo · 11-07-2016 02:57PM

The Prairie Oysters were not up to their usual standard the other night that's for sure.

BTW do people realise the mother of the bull is also slaughtered to kill off the bloodline.

BetsyEllen · 11-07-2016 03:08PM

jmayo wrote: »

BTW do people realise the mother of the bull is also slaughtered to kill off the bloodline.

Found that out a moment ago...it's beyond sad and unnecessary.

smash · 11-07-2016 03:17PM

jmayo wrote: »

BTW do people realise the mother of the bull is also slaughtered to kill off the bloodline.

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Found that out a moment ago...it's beyond sad and unnecessary.

While disagreeing with bull fighting, I'll reiterate my previous post:

smash wrote:

The thing about the debate on the 'sport' is that the Spanish fighting bull is a specific breed, which is bread solely for fighting. To ban bull fighting would in turn make this species extinct.

BetsyEllen · 11-07-2016 03:21PM

I would rather an species be extinct than exist and be tortured!

lertsnim · 11-07-2016 03:21PM

timthumbni wrote: »

The fact that this was broadcast live on Spanish tv apparently is crazy.

They have a tv channel dedicated to it

smash · 11-07-2016 03:24PM

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I would rather an species be extinct than exist and be tortured!

You could say the same about most breeds of dogs. These days there's a huge list of species who are all engineered to look a certain way and that comes with a price to their health.

Top Spanish matador Victor Barrio gored to death in arena live on TV

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