€64k for a sore bum? I'm off to Dunnes for some "shopping"!

Lux23 · 07-07-2016 02:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In all of these threads that people are posting, it is just so obvious that the business was in the wrong and not anybody else.

This seems to be a new form of Irish begrudgery. If a company makes a mistake that puts people at risk of injury or death, then they must be punished in some form.

JinkyJackson · 07-07-2016 02:34PM

These threads are the new Dole bashing threads, begrudgers.

seamus · 07-07-2016 02:36PM

Nermal wrote: »

I didn't say that. She may perfectly well be telling the truth about her pain, but we have no way of verifying that, so we should not be awarding damages for it.

They should get nothing for symptoms not backed up by physical evidence.

Seriously? So if someone claims to suffer crippling migraines after a blow to the head, the court should just ignore that and give them a few quid for the initial trauma?

Special Circumstances · 07-07-2016 02:45PM

hullaballoo wrote: »

Witch hunt. What has a fall in Dunnes Stores, a supermarket, got to do with the cost of car insurance?

The fact that car insurance has gone up is because insurance companies are greedy. Payouts have been more or less static for a decade or more at this point and lawyers have reduced their fees by 30-70% in some cases.

I don't know the details of this case, just like you, but I do know that for the award to be €64k, there must be some significant loss to the Plaintiff. You don't get that kind of money for just having a sore back on its own.

The good doctor fuzzenstein is firmly of the opinion that €600 is the fair maximum total compensation package for soft tissue neck/back injuries.

Stasi 2.0 · 07-07-2016 03:06PM

Nermal wrote: »

They should get nothing for symptoms not backed up by physical evidence..

Why should the burden of proof be on the person who wasn't responsible for the accident ? That's not how civil cases work.

07-07-2016 04:03PM

Nermal wrote: »

Not really, it's not expensive to treat back pain that has no obvious cause. A prescription for some painkillers won't break the bank.

So the whole pain management issue in back problems, a growing area in medicine, is in your eyes really just an exercise in throwing painkillers at them?

You haven't really met someone with chronic back problems, have you? Someone who, say, has lost their job and can't get out of a couch or can't even sleep after an accident? The ones I know would usually far prefer their lives back than the money. Many of them will not actually even go into the detail as to how it may affect them, like young people who feel that they will never have a normal sex life, they hold themselves "funny" and will be sneered at and won't get dates, they may actually fear what will happen to them if they carry a child and so on. Some will get PTSD, no no, that's not another condition for you to dismiss, but PTSD as diagnosed by psychiatrists. They see their careers ruined, their lives change in an instant.

You should meet someone when they are told that essentially they will never improve and for the rest of their lives it's all about pain management. You could tell them they're making it up, take a few paracetamol. And rub their hands at the 100k they may have to apportion over the rest of their lives.

Two Tone · 07-07-2016 04:15PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

OK, consensus seems to be that €64k is a reasonable payout for falling on your arse.

Really? Thought the general consensus was that you've no grounds for some of the conclusions you jumped to.

The amount seems very high in my opinion but I would need access to all the details before concluding that she should not have been paid it. I don't this case means that everyone who slips in Dunnes Stores will get that kind of compensation; these are case by case occurrences.

AudreyHepburn · 07-07-2016 05:16PM

Compo Culture at it's finest.

If she is still capable of doing high energy dance routines then the fall can't have affected her that badly.

What ever happen to accidents just being accidents?

07-07-2016 05:41PM

It has been established almost without question that rising insurance premia are (largely, but not exclusively) due to financial mismanagement in the insurance industry during the boom years, when premia were excessively low.

However, there is also evidence that the scale of personal injury payouts is sometimes out-of-kilter with international standards, and legal costs are a significant and ongoing problem in this country. I would quite frankly question the motives of those who are denying that problem exists.

I'm not sure about the case in question, but at first sight, it seems like a lot of money for a person who can engage in some rigorous dance moves. Back pain is notoriously difficult to disprove, so suspicions are fairly natural.

One more thing.

Allinall wrote: »

Were there many in the public gallery of the court when you were down to listen and witness the full details of the case?

This really gets on my tits, too. If the article is inaccurate, it is you who should be pointing it out. It is perfectly legitimate for anyone to honestly comment on a newspaper article of a court decision.

There is this ridiculous tradition on here, sometimes, that 'oh if you weren't there, just shut up, you don't know'.

If that silly canon were to carry any weight, there would probably be less than 15 people in the whole country, on average, entitled to comment on any individual court case.

dr.fuzzenstein · 07-07-2016 08:00PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

The good doctor fuzzenstein is firmly of the opinion that €600 is the fair maximum total compensation package for soft tissue neck/back injuries.

And the good Mr SC believes that every single claim is genuine and everyone in a 5 km/h car park shunt should immediately have €20k forced into their hand whilst still on the scene of the accident to deal with their horrific, life changing, devastating injuries. Anyone actually injured, you'd give them a million I bet. I can misrepresent and hyperbole with the best, so don't even start.

Two Tone · 07-07-2016 08:09PM

Jayz you're some man for making up stuff people never said, Doc.

Bongalongherb · 07-07-2016 08:21PM

Has anyone ever walked into supervalu in boroimhe swords after it been raining beforehand ? It's amazing the balance you have when both of your legs are flaying about on the wet floor just after the entrance to this store.

I could have broke myself up after slipping on it, but my master balance kept me atop. Why the heck do they always build shopping centres with the slipperiest of floors ? I pitied the poor foreign guy that was vulgarly told to get the mop and clean the water from the slippery tiles.

Am I an asshole or an idiot for not falling down in pretendness to claim my gold ?. Some payouts they are giving out these days, but it is morally wrong to fake it, but some folks will go all the way for printed paper. My arse is sore now from sitting down for so long, so I'm off for a walk in the valley.

Allinall · 07-07-2016 08:25PM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

.... My arse is sore now from sitting down for so long, so I'm off for a walk in the valley.

Have a good trip. -:)

dr.fuzzenstein · 07-07-2016 10:40PM

Two Tone wrote: »

Jayz you're some man for making up stuff people never said, Doc.

Me and SC go way back. Bit of an in joke at this stage. We have different ideas what constitutes an injury and what a fair level of payout is.

Two Tone · 07-07-2016 10:59PM

In fairness I detest people who would sue their mother for having them too, but in high-profile compensation cases... I don't think the money would be handed out just for the craic. So I might agree it seems like too much but I would need to have the full facts of the case to make an assessment. Not trying to be contrarian but I do think there is bound to be more to it than just the surface facts churned out by a newspaper.

As said by someone else too, Dunnes Stores are pretty ruthless - they are not gonna cave unless REALLY pushed.

JPCN1 · 07-07-2016 11:06PM

Nermal wrote: »

Back pain cannot be proven, so no compensation should be paid for it.

The medical evidence for back pain amounts to a doctor signing a form saying 'this guy says he has back pain'.

Accidents happen. Always have and always will and ascribing monetary value to them is wrong in a certain sense. Let the insurance company pick up the physio bills would seem fair...

nullzero · 07-07-2016 11:16PM

Before this trial Dunnes had no Prior convictions... I'll see myself out.

Markcheese · 07-07-2016 11:22PM

JPCN1 wrote:

Accidents happen. Always have and always will and ascribing monetary value to them is wrong in a certain sense. Let the insurance company pick up the physio bills would seem fair...

Pretty much what I always say... no one goes to court to make their physio rich ... I dont know how you'd distinguish between someones dance related back injuries (or builder or farmer or sports ect ) and their slipped on milk in dunnes injuries , but it'd be a lot better than the current situation...
Incidentally how do you account for crap footware that will slide on wet surfaces...or crap surfaces that have no grip.. in a court case can dunnes get the shoes in question tested and say we're not responsible cause these are ****e in damp conditions'... or the dancer do the same for dunnes floor.. or am I watching too much american telly..

FortySeven · 07-07-2016 11:37PM

For a dancer she didn't appear to have very good balance. I slip on stuff all the time and don't remember falling over but then I am fit and healthy and have good balance....Oh wait?

Some old wan or overweight or partially sighted. Fair enough, this woman is in her prime, fit as a fiddle and apparently quite sprightly and nimble with an elevated sense of balance. She fell on her arse? Hard enough to break something? From a 3 foot fall?

Madness. Logic says it is not so, experience says it is not so. She should have been left with the legal bills. Chancer.

Never mind milk on her arse, she should have egg on her face.

hullaballoo · 07-07-2016 11:37PM

I've seen defendants run the inappropriate shoe defence and it goes down like a lead balloon. I've seen awards doubled because defendants tried arguing the plaintiff was wearing sandals when the appropriate shoes should have been hard toe boots.

The response is that we should all probably always wear hard toe boots just in case but reality is very different.

Accidents certainly do happen but if someone caused the situation, they should pay for it. It's funny, this concept has been really accepted for thousands of years at this stage but only recently have people started to think that victims are responsible for what happens to them.

Also, it strikes me that a lot of people are happy to state that they'd never sue of they had a fall but I guarantee none of them have suffered the consequences of a serious injury.

And insurance premiums are going up because insurance companies are assholes and that's the end of it. Nothing to do with claims - they'll always be at the same level.

STB. · 07-07-2016 11:39PM

@ The OP. Your thread title is a disgrace. You'll never make it as a court reporter!

The most important of the whole story you missed.

Dunnes Stores denied liability and also pleaded contributory negligence on the part of Ms Prior.

They might as well have said, We will place hurdles whilst you shop in our overpriced supermarket and it will be your fault if you do not see them, so tough.

Typical. If I was the Judge I would have done the same, despite the fact that the woman who runs that very profitable company is a lovely lady.

alchemist33 · 07-07-2016 11:47PM

From the article...

"... she came into contact with a white liquid on the floor near the dairy fridge..."

What the hell could that liquid have been? Could a Dunnes employee have been w**king by the dairy fridge? A real head-scratcher, this one

FortySeven · 07-07-2016 11:47PM

Anyone else wonder how we all manage to get on after such pursuits as ice skating? There are possibly millions of people falling on their arse on a daily basis without 'life changing injuries'. It always seems to be life changing when there is a large insurance payout to be had.

pgj2015 · 08-07-2016 12:08AM

Mod-Snip

FortySeven · 08-07-2016 12:11AM

The 64000 is only the tip of the iceberg. What's the going rate for a contested high court battle these days?

pgj2015 · 08-07-2016 12:24AM

hullaballoo wrote: »

You're a total ****.

I had a much more verbose, almost prolix response prepared bit then I realise that its you and not me who's the problem.

Edit: that word is cunt. A total one.

h

FortySeven · 08-07-2016 12:39AM

hullaballoo wrote: »

You're a total ****.

I had a much more verbose, almost prolix response prepared bit then I realise that its you and not me who's the problem.

Edit: that word is cunt. A total one.

Well, that's not very moderate.

Ken. · 08-07-2016 12:45AM

Mod-hullaballoo please don't post in this thread again.

blackdog2 · 08-07-2016 01:16AM

I often wonder what would happen if people who pick up sports injurys at an amateur, social level were to sue the pitch/club/groundsmen where they got their injuries.

Surely if liability for one slipping, one falling, or a slightly more waterlogged bit of pitch than the rest lay on the providers, sport would grind to a halt? Or insurance of said clubs would be prohibitively expensive?

08-07-2016 04:23AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Anyone else wonder how we all manage to get on after such pursuits as ice skating?

There is an assumed risk in ice skating.

It's hardly comparable.

blackdog2 wrote: »

I often wonder what would happen if people who pick up sports injurys at an amateur, social level were to sue the pitch/club/groundsmen where they got their injuries.

Surely if liability for one slipping, one falling, or a slightly more waterlogged bit of pitch than the rest lay on the providers, sport would grind to a halt? Or insurance of said clubs would be prohibitively expensive?

Dear Lord. Where to even start?

It's like posters are trying to outdo each other with examples of falling over, kinda missing the point that that does not always mean negligence.

Lads, there are whole libraries written on the area, it has developed over decades and tens if not hundreds of thousands of cases across a number of countries. It's a little bit more subtle than "all falls are the same and will see a payout".

€64k for a sore bum? I'm off to Dunnes for some "shopping"!

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