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Is this discrimination ?

  • 05-07-2016 04:14PM
    #1
    crusha101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭


    Hey this doesnt bother me that much or it isn't stopping me from finding a place to rent but I saw this on an add for a house and was surprised at how blunt it was:

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, "DejaVu Sans", sans-serif]"This house is female only and only accepts postgraduates, PhDs, Post-docs or Professionals. NO Undergraduates."
    [/font]
    This house is empty and its not like a person subletting it wants female housemates only , these are the landlords words.
    Should this be allowed in the middle of a rental crisis, basically to live in this house you must be female , have a profession or are studying at a 3rd level college over the age of 23


«1

Comments

  • #2
    UM1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭UM1


    crusha101 wrote: »
    Hey this doesnt bother me that much or it isn't stopping me from finding a place to rent but I saw this on an add for a house and was surprised at how blunt it was:

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, "DejaVu Sans", sans-serif]"This house is female only and only accepts postgraduates, PhDs, Post-docs or Professionals. NO Undergraduates."
    [/font]
    This house is empty and its not like a person subletting it wants female housemates only , these are the landlords words.
    Should this be allowed in the middle of a rental crisis, basically to live in this house you must be female , have a profession or are studying at a 3rd level college over the age of 23
    Prob has a fetish for burds studying..


  • #3
    Electric Sex Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭Electric Sex Pants


    crusha101 wrote: »
    Hey this doesnt bother me that much or it isn't stopping me from finding a place to rent but I saw this on an add for a house and was surprised at how blunt it was:

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, "DejaVu Sans", sans-serif]"This house is female only and only accepts postgraduates, PhDs, Post-docs or Professionals. NO Undergraduates."
    [/font]
    This house is empty and its not like a person subletting it wants female housemates only , these are the landlords words.
    Should this be allowed in the middle of a rental crisis, basically to live in this house you must be female , have a profession or are studying at a 3rd level college over the age of 23

    Its privately owned property they can use any criteria they want.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,242 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They cannot.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

    The Equal Status Acts 2000–2015 apply to lettings and accommodation. Landlords cannot discriminate against potential tenants on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

    In addition, since 1 January 2016, you cannot discriminate against a tenant or potential tenant because they are getting Rent Supplement or any other social welfare payment, or a Housing Assistance Payment (HAP). This means that you cannot state when advertising accommodation that Rent Supplement or HAP is not accepted and you cannot refuse to rent accommodation to someone because they are getting a social welfare payment.


  • #5
    crusha101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    Electric Sex Pants wrote: »
    Its privately owned property they can use any criteria they want.

    That makes no sense , A privately owned business cannot hire using any criteria they want.


  • #6
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Sounds to me like someone who has learnt the hard away.

    You seem to be confused about the social obligations of private landowners.
    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    In addition, since 1 January 2016, you cannot discriminate against a tenant or potential tenant because they are getting Rent Supplement or any other social welfare payment, or a Housing Assistance Payment (HAP). This means that you cannot state when advertising accommodation that Rent Supplement or HAP is not accepted and you cannot refuse to rent accommodation to someone because they are getting a social welfare payment.

    Most Rent Supplement recipients are priced out of the rental market anyway. It was a very noble thought of the government to try and abdicate their social and affordable housing responsibilities to private landlords, but it is in no way enforcable.


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  • #7
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    crusha101 wrote: »
    That makes no sense , A privately owned business cannot hire using any criteria they want.

    Well, they can and they do. Sadly.
    But publicly stating their criteria would prove them to be in breach and liable.


  • #8
    beach_walker
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 976 ✭✭✭beach_walker


    crusha101 wrote: »
    Should this be allowed in the middle of a rental crisis, basically to live in this house you must be female , have a profession or are studying at a 3rd level college over the age of 23

    Well at least they're being straight up about it. Been involved with numerous room/house searches during the years where people were evasive and wasting time by not specifying who they wouldn't take.


  • #9
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    They cannot.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

    The Equal Status Acts 2000–2015 apply to lettings and accommodation. Landlords cannot discriminate against potential tenants on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

    Not sure it's that simple. I started a thread on this a few years back.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1766110

    Unfortunately the link supplied in that thread is dead now but it did back up what Victor posted.


  • #10
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Electric Sex Pants wrote: »
    Its privately owned property they can use any criteria they want.

    The question was whether it was discrimination or not.

    Not allowing a person to rent your property on the basis of gender is discrimination. Similar to how 'No blacks, no Irish' outside private shop windows was discrimination. Or if I decided not to hire women to work in my privately owned shop would be discrimination.


  • #11
    vg88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 466 ✭✭vg88


    Under the citizen advice http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html it states:

    Refusal to grant a tenancy
    The Equal Status Acts 2000–2015 apply to lettings and accommodation. Landlords cannot discriminate against potential tenants on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

    Looking at the act itself http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/RevisedActs/WithAnnotations/HTML/EN_ACT_2000_0008.HTM, I would state that it is direct discrimination of the basis of gender. Have no idea about occupation, can't see that as discrimination rather than personal preference.

    Now I didn't study property/land law module so this is somewhat an educated guess using my other law modules.


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  • #12
    Walter Bishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    crusha101 wrote: »
    That makes no sense , A privately owned business cannot hire using any criteria they want.

    Of course they can. What they can't do is state in an ad that they only want women, no foreigners etc.


  • #13
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I wouldn't want the hassle of undergrads either tbh. The kind of sh1t that went on in the student apartment complex I rented in was too much at times, pack of degenerates living in the spot, including yours truly.


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And it's stooopid.

    EVERYONE knows that men are better tenants. Yeah, they are messy, but they don't wreck the Landlord's head about not enough plugs for hairdryers and the fridge light not working.


  • #15
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    crusha101 wrote: »
    Hey this doesnt bother me that much or it isn't stopping me from finding a place to rent
    Presuming you do not qualify it is sort of helping you find a place, as you are not wasting your time with this place. Others will probably discriminate but simply not tell you directly, their mind is made up the moment they see you but they go through the whole rigmarole of showing you and saying they got someone else.


  • #16
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    To be honest i see no issue with the landlord putting this in the add , like it saves people wasting their time viewing. Realistically most landlords don't want students , for starters they can get higher rent from professionals , secondly professionals will probably keep the place in better order and wont be having party's disturbing neighbors and causing more hassle for the landlord. again most do not want those out of work or on welfare as they are higher risk , sorry if that offends some people but its true if your unemployed your a bigger risk.

    The one i don't get is women over men, again if its the landlords preference better putting it in the add then wasting peoples time but i cant really see much difference between letting to men or women if its an unoccupied house. I have rented with both lads and girls and found very little difference.

    But the long and short of it is its the landlords property they can let it to who they like.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,242 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    Not sure it's that simple. I started a thread on this a few years back.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1766110

    Unfortunately the link supplied in that thread is dead now but it did back up what Victor posted.
    The six-person rule only applies in respect of residences where the landlord is also a resident.

    That is not the case here.


  • #18
    Electric Sex Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭Electric Sex Pants


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    They cannot.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

    The Equal Status Acts 2000–2015 apply to lettings and accommodation. Landlords cannot discriminate against potential tenants on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.

    In addition, since 1 January 2016, you cannot discriminate against a tenant or potential tenant because they are getting Rent Supplement or any other social welfare payment, or a Housing Assistance Payment (HAP). This means that you cannot state when advertising accommodation that Rent Supplement or HAP is not accepted and you cannot refuse to rent accommodation to someone because they are getting a social welfare payment.


    This is completely unenforceable. All they have to do is request huge amounts of money for deposit along with first and last months rent or references from employer for people on rent allowance. Or they just dont give a reason at all - just say no im not renting to you.


  • #19
    Clarebelly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 250 ✭✭Clarebelly


    A quick reword of the ad to get around the law.

    "This house is available to rent to all genders, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religions, ages, disabilities, and races. I will say however I am a fan of female tenants especially those with postgraduates, PhDs, Post-docs or Professional careers."


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,242 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Electric Sex Pants wrote: »
    This is completely unenforceable.
    I'm not saying it will never happen that a landlord will discriminate, but the OP asked whether the ad he saw is discrimination. It is.

    A landlord declaring that SW recipients, travellers, single mothers, males, etc. 'need not apply' could be prosecuted for prohibited advertising under the act.


  • #21
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Clarebelly wrote: »
    A quick reword of the ad to get around the law.

    "This house is available to rent to all genders, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religions, ages, disabilities, and races. I will say however I am a fan of female tenants especially those with postgraduates, PhDs, Post-docs or Professional careers."

    You'd often see ads saying "This apartment would suit working professionals/a family/whatever", which gets the message across pretty well.


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  • #22
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Having been apartment hunting only about two months ago, I have to admit I did get a bit tempted to see what the reaction would be to (fake) ads for "white people preferred" or "straight people only" types of ads. I mean if the defense of 'women only' is "we just wouldn't be comfortable with a man in the house", then surely the same would apply and be fine to do so for non white people, gay folks, etc.

    If you're a woman, finding a new place must be a doddle by the looks of it.


  • #23
    Shint0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Shint0


    Peregrine wrote: »
    The question was whether it was discrimination or not.

    Not allowing a person to rent your property on the basis of gender is discrimination. Similar to how 'No blacks, no Irish' outside private shop windows was discrimination. Or if I decided not to hire women to work in my privately owned shop would be discrimination.
    It used to be one of the few areas where you could openly state a gender preference for rental accommodation without it being discriminatory. Income status under the guise of 'professionals only', 'no rent supplement' or 'no students' does not fall under the nine grounds of discrimination but the new legislation referred to here would appear to supersede both those counts now.


  • #24
    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭Aint Eazy Being Cheezy


    Clarebelly wrote: »
    A quick reword of the ad to get around the law.

    "This house is available to rent to all genders, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religions, ages, disabilities, and races. I will say however I am a fan of female tenants especially those with postgraduates, PhDs, Post-docs or Professional careers."

    Might be more legal, but it sounds creepy AF!


  • #25
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Winterlong wrote: »
    Well, they can and they do. Sadly.
    But publicly stating their criteria would prove them to be in breach and liable.

    This is true, I've worked with companies who have done recruiting for Jewish, Arab and Asian owned companies that all basically told us to not look outside of "their kind" (albeit slightly more coded). And the same with a company that would always take the white candidate, so much so we even tested it out twice and sent them (for each role) two excellent non-white candidates, and one mediocre-at-best white one (sometimes recruitment companies will do this to make their 'best' candidates look strong again by comparison)... both times they took whitey!

    It's not pretty, but you're definitely right in that it does happen.


  • #26
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I've heard plenty of landlords saying they prefer men in their buildings because young women are more messy. Apparently their feminine products block up pipes and women are just as messy as men up until they start having children.

    It's all a nonsense. All a landlord can really do is cover themselves and be prepared for some sort of damage happening. I've found a lot of rental properties I've seen in galway are **** holes where the landlord is just looking to make some easy money.


  • #27
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I've heard plenty of landlords saying they prefer men in their buildings because young women are more messy. Apparently their feminine products block up pipes and women are just as messy as men up until they start having children.

    And you will always find anecdotal evidence to show that either men or women are messier or higher maintenance.
    I have rented to both men and women over the years and I just think some humans are messy and high maintenance and some are not. Some are absolute pricks, some are not.
    Sex has nothing do with it....unless you have a spy cam installed in the bathroom.


  • #28
    Shint0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Shint0


    Winterlong wrote: »
    Sex has nothing do with it....unless you have a spy cam installed in the bathroom.
    OMG Perv

    *find Winterlong's IP address, track him down, put it as a sticky on Boards so no one will fall for his depraved tactics in future*


  • #29
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    All men are sexual predators do we not know this already ?


  • #30
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    I bet the place is full of hidden cameras


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  • #31
    Shint0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Shint0


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    All men are sexual predators do we not know this already ?
    No...because 'we' are not all men :D


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