This country is turning very right wing....

tomofson · 04-07-2016 08:13PM

cajonlardo wrote: »

Never fails to maze me how people claim to be "educated" and yet spout this particular style of condescending BolLLLLLLLLLLLLLocks.

Do you honestly believe that only uneducated people, minority or not, are ripping off hard working honest folk? People with degrees don't play the system? The hospital managers who've been proven to be topping up their salaries, The county managers proved to be using public funds for personal reasons, The politicians fraudulently claiming expenses.....

What was it Twain said about Education and Schooling?

I know, the biggest swindlers and criminals those who never get caught are the most educated.... Also there is a such thing as natural intelligence not every intelligent person would be necessarily educated. In fact some of the best inventors this world has seen didn't even finish primary school.

Pkiernan · 04-07-2016 08:15PM

How anyone can think this country is right wing is beyond me.
It's full of left wing liberal douchebags and lazy dole layabouts.

tomofson · 04-07-2016 08:18PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

How anyone can think this country is right wing is beyond me.
It's full of left wing liberal douchebags and lazy dole layabouts.

Now this is the prime example of americanized right wing BS taking a hold on Irish society... Who in Ireland uses terms like "douchebag" or even "layabouts" no doubt you read that on some site like a fox news blog. And I never said it was right wing I said it was getting that way believe it or not einstein there is a difference.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 04-07-2016 08:20PM

Wish the tax and welfare system would swing a bit more to the right. 50 % tax at 34 k is a total joke.

Earthhorse · 04-07-2016 08:21PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I think the world - by world I'm just looking at the West here - has become more aggressive, more polarised.

I associate the right with agression. Moreover Erdogan, Trump and Brexit I would say are all on the right and on the rise.

tomofson · 04-07-2016 08:22PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

I associate the right with agression. Moreover Erdogan, Trump and Brexit I would say are all on the right and on the rise.

I think its fairly obvious that right wing is aggression

04-07-2016 08:23PM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Ireland has always been a right-wing country, since independence we've never been led by a left-wing government. Ireland is one of the most socially conservative country's in western Europe and again has been for the best part of 80 years.

Economically FG are right-wing, while FF present themselves as all things to all men but they're really closet right-wing.

Personally I'm extremely socially liberal (I can't stand social conservatism) but economically right leaning, so I don't think any party in Ireland represents me.

Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are centre-right; not right-wing.

Zebra3 · 04-07-2016 08:29PM

The country is, and for a long time always has been, right-wing.

The FF/FG con job has always been in power since the fascist Brits left. All that changed is the flag.

Backed by a predominantly right-wing electorate FF/FG have allowed the Roman cult to run their slave labour camps and dominate education.

FF/FG have both embraced the EU's privitisation agenda and an end to public ownership of so many public services.

Both FF/FG have supported the imposition of private debt onto the taxpayer. Privatising profit, socialising debt, that's how they work.

Yet, like most right-wing hypocrites, FF/FG who rant on about privatisation, love to loot the state with their obscene pay and pensions. Where in the private sector that they proclaim to love so much would you get a pension paid out like the one that you get after two years as a government minister? They also have no interest in seeing their corrupt right-wing buddies being prosecuted for corruption.

Huntergonzo · 04-07-2016 08:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Ireland has always been a right-wing country, since independence we've never been led by a left-wing government. Ireland is one of the most socially conservative country's in western Europe and again has been for the best part of 80 years.

Economically FG are right-wing, while FF present themselves as all things to all men but they're really closet right-wing.

Personally I'm extremely socially liberal (I can't stand social conservatism) but economically right leaning, so I don't think any party in Ireland represents me.

Fine Gael and Fianna F il are centre-right; not right-wing.

Is centre-right not somewhere along the right-wing? I was making a general point regarding their position, not attempting to map their exact coordinates on the political spectrum.

cowboyBuilder · 04-07-2016 08:39PM

Let's see
LGBT crowd supporting radical Islam
Amnesty Ireland supporting a MB terrorist

Yeah, I'd say we´ve swung more to the left - so much so it's swung all the way around to the right ..

tomofson · 04-07-2016 08:41PM

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Let's see
LGBT crowd supporting radical Islam
Amnesty Ireland supporting a MB terrorist

Yeah, I'd say we´ve swung more to the left - so much so it's swung all the way around to the right ..

You've exposed yourself cowboy

Jimbob1977 · 04-07-2016 08:45PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

I associate the right with agression. Moreover Erdogan, Trump and Brexit I would say are all on the right and on the rise.

Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were in charge of extreme left wing regimes. Hundreds of millions of their own people were liquidated. The USSR kept an iron grip on half of Europe.

'1984' and the concept of Ingsoc was a critical assessment of the worst perils of Socialism.... police states, the eradication of individual freedom, informers, poor wages, poor housing, poor consumer goods. It's a work of fiction, but it's a reminder of what totalitarianism is capable of.

The extreme left has produced a similar amount of horror as the extreme right. Ireland is a very centrist country. It has served us quite well, despite the obvious flaws.

It's a good idea to pick the best of both ideologies...

skywanderer · 04-07-2016 08:46PM

The move towards the right is a natural reaction to SJW and the Loony Left. People are fed up of Political Correctness, Islamic Terror and the Migrant crisis gripping Europe. Shove Political Correctness down enough throats and it won't be long before Europe sees the rise of the Far-Right.

tomofson · 04-07-2016 08:48PM

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were in charge of extreme left wing regimes. Hundreds of millions of their own people were liquidated. The USSR kept an iron grip on half of Europe.

'1984' and the concept of Ingsoc was a critical assessment of the worst perils of Socialism.... police states, the eradication of individual freedom, informers, poor wages, poor housing, poor consumer goods. It's a work of fiction, but it's a reminder of what totalitarianism is capable of.

The extreme left has produced a similar amount of horror as the extreme right. Ireland is a very centrist country. It has served us quite well, despite the obvious flaws.

It's a good idea to pick the best of both ideologies...

Stalin mao and pol pot said they were left wing, but in reality they held deep seeded right wing opinions... Such as the support of the death penalty and encouragement of social inequality. For instance believing certain blood lines are born to be better than others. Those where the opinions of those three men, just cause they say they are left wing does not make them so...

tomofson · 04-07-2016 08:50PM

skywanderer wrote: »

The move towards the right is a natural reaction to SJW and the Loony Left. People are fed up of Political Correctness, Islamic Terror and the Migrant crisis gripping Europe. Shove Political Correctness down enough throats and it won't be long before Europe sees the rise of the Far-Right.

I agree political correctness can be a bit infuriating at times, but I dont see it as a reason why someone would conform to right wing politics that wasn't at least partially leaning that way to begin with.

The King of Moo · 04-07-2016 08:50PM

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Let's see
LGBT crowd supporting radical Islam
Amnesty Ireland supporting a MB terrorist

Yeah, I'd say we´ve swung more to the left - so much so it's swung all the way around to the right ..

Ok, this requires some unpacking.

skywanderer wrote: »

The move towards the right is a natural reaction to SJW and the Loony Left. People are fed up of Political Correctness, Islamic Terror and the Migrant crisis gripping Europe. Shove Political Correctness down enough throats and it won't be long before Europe sees the rise of the Far-Right.

Are they related? Or did you happen to group them together, like "I can't stand torture, genocide, and the music of The Proclaimers."

Jimbob1977 · 04-07-2016 08:53PM

tomofson wrote: »

Stalin mao and pol pot said they were left wing, but in reality they held deep seeded right wing opinions... Such as the support of the death penalty and encouragement of social inequality. For instance believing certain blood lines are born to be better than others. Those where the opinions of those three men, just cause they say they are left wing does not make them so...

So every evil that has ever been committed in the world is right wing?

The USSR and the USA had the same values?

tomofson · 04-07-2016 08:56PM

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

So every evil that has ever been committed in the world is right wing?

The USSR and the USA had the same values?

More evil can be done by right wingers yes because the mentality gives it a gateway... I'm sorry kid thats just the way it is the same way as more evil can be done by a psychopath with no real emotion than by a loving caring heart filled person.

steddyeddy · 04-07-2016 08:56PM

I share residence betwee the UK and Denver. Ireland's not right wing at all.

Earthhorse · 04-07-2016 08:56PM

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

It's a good idea to pick the best of both ideologies...

Thanks but I already know all that. I am talking about the right as they appear in the West today which is the subject of the thread not how the left and right may have behaved through history or been depicted in fiction.

RDM_83 again · 04-07-2016 09:03PM

I don't think it has to be honest. Whats happened is a this.

- There is a group of people that have pretty much bought whole heartedly into the SJW/PC thing, I know people seem to hate those terms but honestly if somebody is banging on about the latest social justice issue thats on trend or is offended on others behalf what other descriptor should we use, these terms catch on because they fit, plenty of other Americanisms (or Britishisms) don't.
If you think a country where the protest vote has gone to the left wing parties, gay marriage was endorsed by a majority of the population and we're governed by centerists in general has turned very right wing, your wrong whats happened is you've turned very left wing.

- A lot of people have realised that various advocacy groups and privileged persons in society and the media do not have the best interests of the common Irish man or women at heart, shaming type arguments have less power because they are overused. Some luvvie in RTE on hundreds of grand a year doesn't give a sh-t about wage deflation or increased competition for limited resources/employment they care about presenting a "caring" image (similar to a charity/advocacy person who is dependent on these things to pay their own wages)

- Our justice system is currently very lenient, I don't believe in capital punishment, I do believe though that if you stab somebody to death you should be charged with murder or if you have 100+ convictions your probably best in jail. Thats not a right wing opinion, its realistic and there is even a progressive argument that longer jail sentences rather than a revolving door means that rehabilitation can actually occur.

- In terms of complaining about people playing welfare, its not the rich that complain loudest about this its the people that are in the economic group just above, why do they complain, because they know the system is open to abuse because they live beside the people that abuse it. Now I think that our strong social safety net is one of the best endorsements for our country but the system is abused by some.

The_Valeyard · 04-07-2016 09:14PM

If everyone just agrees with me, it will all be fine.

Huntergonzo · 04-07-2016 09:16PM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

If everyone just agrees with me, it will all be fine.

I disagree :-)

Sweetemotion · 04-07-2016 09:17PM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I disagree :-)

Shut up, you...

mcmoustache · 04-07-2016 09:19PM

tomofson wrote: »

I'm sorry I am just seeing a reality, Left wing politics attracts more open minded caring kind hearted people. While right wing politics attracts the more angry elitist racist homophobic Islamophobic hate filled people.... I'm sorry if you dont like it but thats just how both sides of the coin work by nature.

Ever seen the anti-fa crowd? Or some student protests?

I can assure you that there are violent prigs on both wings. When you pick a side, convince yourself of your righteousness and see the opposite side as evil, it's not a big stretch to justify violence.

tomofson · 04-07-2016 09:19PM

Bdylo wrote: »

You're not seeing reality. And if you believe every left winger is a lovely person who truly believes in equality then you are naive.

Every true left winger believes in equality by nature. I am not saying someone with a different agenda cant manipulate their way into left wing politics but that person would not be a true left winger.

Samaris · 04-07-2016 09:22PM

I suspect that this is common all over Europe. Societies tend to turn in on themselves and radicalise a bit during harsh times, and a long recession, plus the ISIS business, plus immigrant discussions is just about tailor-made to encourage a right-wing attitude (generally speaking). It's similar as to how America reputedly tends to vote Democrat in times of peace and Republican in times of war.

Europe as a whole (plus the US) have been hit hard by recession and war (terrorism in this case), and we're seeing the rise in dissatisfaction in terms of more radical parties gaining traction - Sinn Fein, UKIP, Britain First, Sverigedemokratna (probably spelled that wrong), Golden Dawn (Greece), Alternative for Germany, National Front (France, Marine Le Pen's lot), Party for Freedom (Geert Wilders, Netherlands)*, Jobbik (Hungary), Freedom Party (Austria).

On top of that, you will tend to notice a generational swing in attitudes, with a generation more to one side and then the next to the other - the Roaring Twenties and depressed Thirties/Forties, more liberal again in the 50s-80s, and while generally more liberal than the 1950s, a slight conservative turn in the late 1980s-90s, then liberal again, and now swinging to conservative. This is very loosely generalised, mind you, and the heavy impact the War and rationing/recessions took in the 1940s and 1980s I reckon have more of an impact than generational swing. Boom period in the 1990s, crashing again in the late 2000s.

Overall, fairly natural swings, most heavily influenced by economic welfare and how peaceful it is. And, of course, the internet makes the opinions louder.

*Both Le Pen and Wilders were heard from over Brexit's fallout.

Richard Hillman · 04-07-2016 09:22PM

The liberal media and the Far-Left has suppressed and polarized opinions and issues.

The media surpressment has angered people. The Far left's vilification has pushed people to more extreme opinions.

Sweetemotion · 04-07-2016 09:23PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Ever seen the anti-fa crowd? Or some student protests?

I can assure you that there are violent prigs on both wings. When you pick a side, convince yourself of your righteousness and see the opposite side as evil, it's not a big stretch to justify violence.

gandalf · 04-07-2016 09:28PM

I actually disagree totally with the OP. This country has always been Centre Right and if anything is moving more towards the mild left. I grew up in the 70's & 80's and the country has come on leaps and bounds since those times.

The change is the extremities of both sides are capable of getting their voices heard these days whereas in the past they would have had a very limited reach.

Is Ireland a better country than it was 30-40 years ago, absolutely. What I find interesting is the increasing throwing around of labels by some on both sides of the political spectrum rather than actually debating and defending their relative positions.

I'm like a lot of people in Ireland. I hold some more right leaning views but also left leaning on other issues. I do firmly believe that the whole political system in Ireland needs to be overhauled especially with regard to the way we elect our National Representatives.

This country is turning very right wing....

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